Hi All,

Got a pond of about 2000gal. Deepest spot is 4'10" about 3 feet around. I
will have ice covering the pond for approximately 3 months in the winter.
Do I have to have an opening in the ice for gases to escape? Should I heat
the bottom of the pond or the surface?

I don't intend to run the pump, filter, and waterfall for 3-4 months of the
year. I intend to submerge my plants at the deepest part of the pond over
the winter as well.

I just put the pond in this spring and spent many days getting the Ph and
buffering just right. The Ph is running between 7.8 while the buffering is
low at around 17. The only way to keep the Ph down was to drop the
buffering and keep very carful watch on the Ph. Ammonia, Nitrates, and
Nitrites don't register a reading. Salt is at 0.1%.

Use Kitty Litter as the base for the plants.

Fish Load:
5 Koi 4" long and 1 Koi 10" long. ~10 minnows, 2 perch, 3 blue gill, 2 bull
frogs, 1 painted turtle (1" diameter).

Plant Load:
12 cattails
2 Marsh Marigolds
4 very large oxygenators (got them from the lake)
6 Lily

I have a Tetra filter, highly over rated, and a Laguna 7000 pump.

Hi Rob,

You wrote Do I have to have an opening in the ice for gases to escape? Should
I heat
the bottom of the pond or the surface?

Yes, you are going to want to keep an opening in the ice to keep your crew
alive.
There are floating pond heaters, they come on at a certain temperature and
heat just the area around them.
Or you can run an air pump with a bubbler attached. The agitation keeps a hole
open. (I attached my air pump to the post my electrical box is on and then
covered it with an upside down tub to keep it out of the elements.)
Some folks disconnect their pump and put it under the surface of the water and
keep the hole open that way.

Energy usage is important. I think the least expensive way is to run a bubbler
but I could be wrong. Anyone know? We have some Canadians online who can chime
in with what they do.


kathy :-)
algae primer
http://hometown.aol.com/ka30p/myhomepage/garden.html

Ka30P wrote:
Hi Rob,

You wrote Do I have to have an opening in the ice for gases to
escape? Should I heat
the bottom of the pond or the surface?

Yes, you are going to want to keep an opening in the ice to keep your
crew alive.
There are floating pond heaters, they come on at a certain
temperature and heat just the area around them.
Or you can run an air pump with a bubbler attached. The agitation
keeps a hole open. (I attached my air pump to the post my electrical
box is on and then covered it with an upside down tub to keep it out
of the elements.)
Some folks disconnect their pump and put it under the surface of the
water and keep the hole open that way.

Energy usage is important. I think the least expensive way is to run
a bubbler but I could be wrong. Anyone know? We have some Canadians
online who can chime in with what they do.

Toronto area, so a tad warmer than Ottawa, okay, much warmer than Ottawa(I
lived in Ottawa 11 years.)

I run a 1250 watt floating pond de-icer, does an excellent job of leaving a
big hole in the ice, and because it is thermostat controlled, switches off
when not needed. I saw no change to my electricity bill running the de-icer
from January until April.

I had used one of the 100 watt de-icers, but they freeze up way too fast if
one gets rain/ice rain followed by freezing temperatures, plus the hole is
mighty small. Found my fish like to come up and hang around the 1250 watter,
so seems to be an added bonus.

Ka30P wrote:

Energy usage is important. I think the least expensive way is to run a
bubbler but I could be wrong. Anyone know? We have some Canadians online
who can chime in with what they do.


I live in London (SW-Ontario) and my pond is about 1600 Gal. I just ran the
pump throughout winter (28 watt OSAE acquarius 660 GPH, so it was OK). This
kept an opening until Jan, but it froze solid during Jan and Feb. A slight
warm spell in march made the opening again. I had 3 koi (~8") and a few
gold fish. They all survived.

If you are really worried and is concerened about energy usage, try a small
transparent dome with a light bulb. This acts as a small greenhouse and
will keep an opening at a fraction of the cost of a pond heater.

Sam
--
Sam I am
Spam alert! Reply-to address is bogus
spam_heaven at sympatico dot ca is where I can be reached

"Iguana" wrote:
this is a symptom of oxygen deficiency, not getting warm. Ingrid

Found my fish like to come up and hang around the 1250 watter,
so seems to be an added bonus.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

They weren't gasping in any way, they weren't sticking their heads out of
the water, they seemed to like to come up and float just below the bottom of
the de-icer, like they wanted the warmth of the surrounding water, or access
to the sun.


wrote:
"Iguana" wrote:
this is a symptom of oxygen deficiency, not getting warm. Ingrid

Found my fish like to come up and hang around the 1250 watter,
so seems to be an added bonus.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

A few yrs back, I used a 1500 watt heater before I went the airstone route
(as I liked the idea of putting O2 into the pond)- I had mine on a timer for
2 hrs a day on the coldest days (0 to 15 F) and my fish would also hang out
just below the heater when it was on
Gale :~)
" They weren't gasping in any way, they weren't sticking their heads out of
the water, they seemed to like to come up and float just below the bottom
of
the de-icer, like they wanted the warmth of the surrounding water, or
access
to the sun.


wrote:
"Iguana" wrote:
this is a symptom of oxygen deficiency, not getting warm. Ingrid

Found my fish like to come up and hang around the 1250 watter,
so seems to be an added bonus.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:12:29 GMT, "rob" wrote:

Hi All,

Got a pond of about 2000gal. Deepest spot is 4'10" about 3 feet around. I
will have ice covering the pond for approximately 3 months in the winter.
Do I have to have an opening in the ice for gases to escape? Should I heat
the bottom of the pond or the surface?

I use a couple of things.

1) An Oase Pond Vent Ice Reducer (basically a small pump underneath a styrofoam
disk). See http://www.pondsonlinecanada.com/misc4.htm.

2) Roof de-icer cable along the bottom of the pond coming up through some PVC
piping. Got this idea from somebody else in the Ottawa area (I'm from Waterloo,
Ont.).

Hi All,

Got a pond of about 2000gal. Deepest spot is 4'10" about 3 feet around. I
will have ice covering the pond for approximately 3 months in the winter.
Do I have to have an opening in the ice for gases to escape? Should I heat
the bottom of the pond or the surface?


I used an air pump with two lines connected to two air stones in my little
4x6x2.5 foot deep pond last winter. It kept about a one foot diameter hole in
the pond for the fishies and froggie to survive the harsh northeast winter we
had last year. Darn pond froze to within a few inches of the bottom. Everyone
survived. although the froggie had us wondering as he didn't show up for a
couple of weeks after the last thaw. I put a five gallon bucket over the air
pump to keep the weather off of it.
Although I must confess that I got the idea from the good people on this board.
-Pat
(thanks again guys ya all made a successful ponder outta me)

Koi or Goldfish? Makes a difference. ~ jan

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:19:29 GMT, "Iguana" wrote:

They weren't gasping in any way, they weren't sticking their heads out of
the water, they seemed to like to come up and float just below the bottom of
the de-icer, like they wanted the warmth of the surrounding water, or access
to the sun.


wrote:
"Iguana" wrote:
this is a symptom of oxygen deficiency, not getting warm. Ingrid

Found my fish like to come up and hang around the 1250 watter,
so seems to be an added bonus.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Neil Law wrote in message . ..
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:12:29 GMT, "rob" wrote:

Hi All,

Got a pond of about 2000gal. Deepest spot is 4'10" about 3 feet around. I
will have ice covering the pond for approximately 3 months in the winter.
Do I have to have an opening in the ice for gases to escape? Should I heat
the bottom of the pond or the surface?

I use a couple of things.

1) An Oase Pond Vent Ice Reducer (basically a small pump underneath a styrofoam
disk). See http://www.pondsonlinecanada.com/misc4.htm.

2) Roof de-icer cable along the bottom of the pond coming up through some PVC
piping. Got this idea from somebody else in the Ottawa area (I'm from Waterloo,
Ont.).

That would probably be moi, about the de-icing cable:
http://members.rogers.com/swatsons
But ever since the Great Fish Disaster of February 2000, we have also
run a bubbler to get a bit of active circulation and gas exchange.

At 4'10" deep, the OP probably doesn't need a heater to prevent it
freezing to the bottom, and if it's only 3' across, he can probably
put boards (or slabs of styrofoam) across to help shelter it. (At 18"
deep by 10' across, that's not really an option for ours).

-- Kizhé

right, they dont gasp, they stick their heads out of the water.
fish SHOULD NOT come up and float under a deicer. they should be on the bottom of
the pond very slowly moving around and pretty still most of the time. that is in
water that has ice over the top.
Ingrid

"Iguana" wrote:
They weren't gasping in any way, they weren't sticking their heads out of
the water, they seemed to like to come up and float just below the bottom of
the de-icer, like they wanted the warmth of the surrounding water, or access
to the sun.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

koi. go to the bottom and stay there. good fish. stupid GF bop all over the pond
right up under the ice and even get frozen into Goldfishicles. Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:
Koi or Goldfish? Makes a difference. ~ jan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.