Regarding aeration of water:
http://www.goldfishvet.com/faqs/floo...raeration.html
~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

I must be ahead of my time -- my wee little water garden experiences
"flooming" a lot! After cleaning the filters of my Little Giant pump, about
half the time I manage to dislodge the fountain part from the pump when I
lower it back into the water garden.

Who knew?

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC



"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
s.com...
Regarding aeration of water:
http://www.goldfishvet.com/faqs/floo...raeration.html
~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

this is how I keep the water clear of ice during the winter months. the pump
is on the bottom with a pipe just below the water flooming the surface.

Karen
Zone 5
Ashland, OH
http://hometown.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html
My Art Studio at
http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K....M.Studios.html
for email remove the extra extention

it is complete and utter nonsense. the fine air bubbles put into the water by good
airstones lifts the entire water column from below, it blows toxic gases out while it
vastly increases oxygenation of the water. looks like somebody wasnt paying
attention in physics classes.
and, I might add, take a look at how many watts that water pump is sucking up and
produces a vastly inferior aeration.
Now if that pump is for the filter and that runs over rocks that break the stream up
and puts it out over a nice vast surface, that is economical aeration.
Yes, in winter I use my pump in one of my bucket filters to gently roll the surface
as well... but I have my air pump going all winter for aeration. And there are a lot
of people have had to learn the hard way that in cold climates proper aeration is
MORE important that pumps. The die offs dont occur in winter, it occurs in spring
when all the bacteria on the bottom start getting active and using up the oxygen
crunching up the settled organics at the same time the fish metabolism starts
increasing oxygen demand.
Giving it a new name doesnt make it any truer.
Ingrid

~ jan JJsPond.us wrote:

Regarding aeration of water:
http://www.goldfishvet.com/faqs/floo...raeration.html
~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote in message
...
it is complete and utter nonsense. the fine air bubbles put into the
water by good
airstones lifts the entire water column from below, it blows toxic gases
out while it
vastly increases oxygenation of the water. looks like somebody wasn't
paying
attention in physics classes.
and, I might add, take a look at how many watts that water pump is sucking
up and
produces a vastly inferior aeration.

snipped the stuff on winter as I'm not a believer

Hi,
Have to agree with the doc here, great new name (flooming) that even works
to a degree by increasing the surface area of the pond. If you do the math
the amount of this increase is minimal hence negligible in aeration. Bubbles
and the smaller the better are the way to go. I do use aerators on Lil
Giant 6CIMs (real watt hogs) as emergency aerators but only temporarily and
I'm not buying the juice.
L8R -_- how
no NEWS is good

I have to disagree here. Fine air bubbles can't really blows any gases out of the water.
Gas exchange need to happen at water/air interface. What fine air bubbles really doing
for gas exchange is to move water from the bottom to the surface. In this pump mode, fine
air bubbles has little efficiency without the aid of ducting.

Any pump that move water from bottom to the water/air interface could be considered
'vastly increasing' oxygenation, in a sense that oxygenation rate is higher for
relatively oxygen poor water from the bottom as compared to water from the top. I won't
go as far as claiming airstone 'vastly increases' oxygenation. I reserve that for cooling
tower/TT.

The main reason that airstones are so popular in aerating large ponds, lakes, and sewage
treatment plants is that it's very low maintenance water pump. The only thing to maintain
is to clean the air filter. It's considered the most reliable way to aerate water. There
is nothing more besides that feature.

As for flooming, it does work. If it's good enough for sewage treatment plants, it's good
enough for our ponds.



wrote:

the fine air bubbles put into the water by good
airstones lifts the entire water column from below, it blows toxic gases out while it
vastly increases oxygenation of the water.

Flooming is a nice term.

What many of us are already doing surely competes well with 'flooming':
Think about the value of pulling water from the bottom of the pond, running
it through a veggie filter and down a waterfall or stream...at a rate of
25-50% per hour. Massive exposure to air. Probably beats flooming hands
down!

Jim

--
____________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Ask me about Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $120+ per child) at: jogathon.net

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
s.com...
Regarding aeration of water:
http://www.goldfishvet.com/faqs/floo...raeration.html
~ jan


(Do you know where your water quality is?)

"Karen Mullen" wrote in message
...
this is how I keep the water clear of ice during the winter months. the
pump
is on the bottom with a pipe just below the water flooming the surface.
snip

I do the same. I use a small 200gph or so pump to "boil" the surface in the
shallows of the pond. Last year, it kept a nice hole in the ice.

BV.

"Sean Dinh" wrote in message
...
I have to disagree here. Fine air bubbles can't really blows any gases out
of the water.
Gas exchange need to happen at water/air interface. What fine air bubbles
really doing
for gas exchange is to move water from the bottom to the surface. In this
pump mode, fine
air bubbles has little efficiency without the aid of ducting.

snips
As for flooming, it does work. If it's good enough for sewage treatment
plants, it's good
enough for our ponds.


Hi,
Fine bubbles or any bubbles are, in fact, a water/air interface.
Supersaturated gasses can escape using bubbles and oxygen is added to the
water. I went back to my notes and although the pump method (flooming) does
oxygenate, it does so by spreading the bottom water over 'hundreds of square
feet of surface' as it 'falls downhill'. Not everyone has hundreds of square
feet of surface or wants to run another pump. The bubble method works much
better but better yet when powered by a blower. This gives the best of both,
a large upwelling at the surface which consists of thousands of little
bubbles.
L8R -_- how
no NEWS is good

and not from the VERY bottom.. LOL, but yes it most certainly is the most efficient
way of aerating, as long as the waterfall roils the water or the stream is shallow.
INgrid

"Jim and Phyllis Hurley" wrote:
What many of us are already doing surely competes well with 'flooming':
Think about the value of pulling water from the bottom of the pond, running
it through a veggie filter and down a waterfall or stream...at a rate of
25-50% per hour. Massive exposure to air. Probably beats flooming hands
down!Jim



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

of course in a natural lake oxygen exchange occurs at the surface, which is why there
are the OLD recommendations for X amount of surface per inch of fish.
then came aeration and it wasnt necessary to calculate surface area any more.
Yes, of course oxygen change occurs across a bubble and much much more efficiently
since exchange occurs as a function of the entire surface of the bubble (the smaller
the bubble the higher the surface to volume ratio). at the same time when the
bubbles break the surface and are blown into the air now there is exchange going on
the inside and the outside of that air bubble. even more efficient. it is a myth
that it doesnt happen.
the water at the bottom of the pond in summer is going to be cooler than the water at
the top if there is no circulation and cooler water holds more oxygen than warm
water. the water at the top is heating up and losing oxygen. there is no reason the
water on the bottom is depleted of oxygen unless there is a thick layer of rotting
organics on the bottom.
correct, airstones are easy to maintain AND most efficient at aerating water. more
so than "fountains" altho fountains are lovely to look at.
In sewage plants the last thing anybody wants is to aerate the water in such a way
that blows bubbles up into the air. this would put potentially pathogenic bacteria,
viruses and parasites right up into the air where it would get blown all over the
city. but sewage is broken down by both aerobic and anaerobic bacteria so pumping
it up without actual aeration may be the reason.
INgrid

Sean Dinh wrote:
I have to disagree here. Fine air bubbles can't really blows any gases out of the water.
Gas exchange need to happen at water/air interface. What fine air bubbles really doing
for gas exchange is to move water from the bottom to the surface. In this pump mode, fine
air bubbles has little efficiency without the aid of ducting.

Any pump that move water from bottom to the water/air interface could be considered
'vastly increasing' oxygenation, in a sense that oxygenation rate is higher for
relatively oxygen poor water from the bottom as compared to water from the top. I won't
go as far as claiming airstone 'vastly increases' oxygenation. I reserve that for cooling
tower/TT.

The main reason that airstones are so popular in aerating large ponds, lakes, and sewage
treatment plants is that it's very low maintenance water pump. The only thing to maintain
is to clean the air filter. It's considered the most reliable way to aerate water. There
is nothing more besides that feature.

As for flooming, it does work. If it's good enough for sewage treatment plants, it's good
enough for our ponds.



wrote:

the fine air bubbles put into the water by good
airstones lifts the entire water column from below, it blows toxic gases out while it
vastly increases oxygenation of the water.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Actually, ours is precious close to the very bottom.

The pump is in the old septic tank, 7' down. The base of it's 5 gal bucket
is on bricks (3.5") above the very bottom. The pond has little mulm as the
koi sweep it around til it falls into the 'deep well/septic tank' and gets
pulled out. Heavy stuff is netted out of the deep well annually. The muck
goes into the veggie filters.

Very bottom...almost.

Jim

--
____________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Ask me about Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $120+ per child) at: jogathon.net

wrote in message
...
and not from the VERY bottom.. LOL, but yes it most certainly is the most
efficient
way of aerating, as long as the waterfall roils the water or the stream is
shallow.
INgrid

"Jim and Phyllis Hurley" wrote:
What many of us are already doing surely competes well with 'flooming':
Think about the value of pulling water from the bottom of the pond,
running
it through a veggie filter and down a waterfall or stream...at a rate of
25-50% per hour. Massive exposure to air. Probably beats flooming hands
down!Jim



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

How,

The technique with air is right and wrong in Ingrid's
statement. The larger the bubble produced by an air
diffuser moves more water to the surface lifting large
quantities of water off the bottom of the pond
preventing layering circulating the water, but the
finer the bubble you have in your air diffuser the more
air/oxygen exchange there is within the water as the
bubbles move to the surface. If you use large bubble
air diffuser you get the same effect as having a pump
at the bottom of the pond. In the winter, through, it
is better to use an aerator with fine bubbles because
you get the air/oxygen exchange with less disturbance
of the water column bringing less the water from the
bottom to the top to be cooled off as the very small
bubbles float leisurely to the surface.

In addition, for the pump to really be affective in
this technique the stream of water needs to break the
water surface tension slightly, which is where air
diffusers are superior because of the busting of the
bubbles as they break the surface.

Personally, I think that the flooming term is silly.

HTH

Tom L.L.
------------------------------------------------
how wrote:
wrote in message
...

it is complete and utter nonsense. the fine air bubbles put into the

water by good

airstones lifts the entire water column from below, it blows toxic gases

out while it

vastly increases oxygenation of the water. looks like somebody wasn't

paying

attention in physics classes.
and, I might add, take a look at how many watts that water pump is sucking

up and

produces a vastly inferior aeration.

snipped the stuff on winter as I'm not a believer


Hi,
Have to agree with the doc here, great new name (flooming) that even works
to a degree by increasing the surface area of the pond. If you do the math
the amount of this increase is minimal hence negligible in aeration. Bubbles
and the smaller the better are the way to go. I do use aerators on Lil
Giant 6CIMs (real watt hogs) as emergency aerators but only temporarily and
I'm not buying the juice.
L8R -_- how
no NEWS is good

Tom, you're just no fun. ;o) ~ jan


Personally, I think that the flooming term is silly.

Tom L.L.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
s.com...
Tom, you're just no fun. ;o) ~ jan


Personally, I think that the flooming term is silly.

Tom L.L.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

Hey floom him if he doesn't want to play.

We should just floom this topic anyway.

BV.