We had an entire day of heavy rain on Friday. My sisters pond which is
about 500g is located in full sun, raised above ground abour 1/2 a
foot, and usually has green algae hiding the 8 fish.

Saturday morning we came out to find the pond completely crystal
clear....and then noticed the fish were all just sort of hanging in the
water....or on the bottom. There was no ammonia level and the ph was
8.0. She tried to rescue the fish to a separate tank, but only two
have survived.

Any idea what could have caused this massive die off? The only variable
we can come up with was the rain.... She doesn't use any chemicals on
her property or lawn. As soon as I saw that the algae was gone, I
thought this couldn't be good, at first thinking the fish were hiding
due to lack of cover. I just lost a frog after this rain, and my
neighbors largest fish died.

Thanks for any input, the fish looked fine, no fuzz/fungus/weird
looking things there, and were fine on Thursday.

Mo

"mos" wrote in message
ps.com...
We had an entire day of heavy rain on Friday. My sisters pond which is
about 500g is located in full sun, raised above ground abour 1/2 a
foot, and usually has green algae hiding the 8 fish.

Saturday morning we came out to find the pond completely crystal
clear....and then noticed the fish were all just sort of hanging in the
water....or on the bottom. There was no ammonia level and the ph was
8.0. She tried to rescue the fish to a separate tank, but only two
have survived.

Any idea what could have caused this massive die off? The only variable
we can come up with was the rain.... She doesn't use any chemicals on
her property or lawn. As soon as I saw that the algae was gone, I
thought this couldn't be good, at first thinking the fish were hiding
due to lack of cover. I just lost a frog after this rain, and my
neighbors largest fish died.

Thanks for any input, the fish looked fine, no fuzz/fungus/weird
looking things there, and were fine on Thursday.
================================
What was the PH before the rain, then after the rain? A swift drop in PH
could have killed them.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

On 5 Jun 2005 12:51:02 -0700, "mos" wrote:

We had an entire day of heavy rain on Friday. My sisters pond which is
about 500g is located in full sun, raised above ground abour 1/2 a
foot, and usually has green algae hiding the 8 fish.

Saturday morning we came out to find the pond completely crystal
clear....and then noticed the fish were all just sort of hanging in the
water....or on the bottom. There was no ammonia level and the ph was
8.0. She tried to rescue the fish to a separate tank, but only two
have survived.

Any idea what could have caused this massive die off? The only variable
we can come up with was the rain.... She doesn't use any chemicals on
her property or lawn. As soon as I saw that the algae was gone, I
thought this couldn't be good, at first thinking the fish were hiding
due to lack of cover. I just lost a frog after this rain, and my
neighbors largest fish died.

Thanks for any input, the fish looked fine, no fuzz/fungus/weird
looking things there, and were fine on Thursday.

Mo

Do you know what the pH was prior to the rain? Did you test for ammonia? or
KH? Usually rain lowers the pH and KH and causes swings, but fish usually
get sick not just instantly die. Same with the pH dropping suddenly could
have killed the algae that was filtering the water, but I wouldn't expect a
die off so immediately. Was it larger fish dying over smaller fish, or vis-
a-versa? Any over hanging trees or roof eaves? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Well hard as it is to belive rain water for thre most part is pretty
deficient in dissolved oxygen contyent. From the sound of it, your
pond got super soaked and the nutrients needed for algae etc was
greatly dilutred, and a lot of fresh rain water was introduced, which
was probably o2 poor, and the fish take the hit. Its a common
occurance even in larger natural ponds with large amounts of rainfall.

Normally its the larger fish that die off with o2 levels being off.

After a few earlier storms this year which dumped huge amounts of rain
my pond I also got quite a few that did not make it as well......and I
have huge amounts of aeraton and my pond is 1+ acre in size. Same for
my friends 2 1/2+ acre pond, heavy heavy rains, = some dead
fish......cloudy overcast skies with algae in the pond is going to
amount to fish kills as well if no auxillary aeration is provided.




On 5 Jun 2005 12:51:02 -0700, "mos" wrote:

===We had an entire day of heavy rain on Friday. My sisters pond which is
===about 500g is located in full sun, raised above ground abour 1/2 a
===foot, and usually has green algae hiding the 8 fish.
===
===Saturday morning we came out to find the pond completely crystal
===clear....and then noticed the fish were all just sort of hanging in the
===water....or on the bottom. There was no ammonia level and the ph was
===8.0. She tried to rescue the fish to a separate tank, but only two
===have survived.
===
===Any idea what could have caused this massive die off? The only variable
===we can come up with was the rain.... She doesn't use any chemicals on
===her property or lawn. As soon as I saw that the algae was gone, I
===thought this couldn't be good, at first thinking the fish were hiding
===due to lack of cover. I just lost a frog after this rain, and my
===neighbors largest fish died.
===
===Thanks for any input, the fish looked fine, no fuzz/fungus/weird
===looking things there, and were fine on Thursday.
===
===Mo


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Yesterday the ph was 8.0 today it is 7.8 and the two remaining fish
seem fine.
She only had tests for ph and Ammonia. No roots or any overhangs,
seems like all the larger fish died, I suppose the dieoff of the algae
didn't help the 02 in the water either. Unbelievable to see that much
algae die off literally overnight....then to loose the fish. She
hadn't checked the pH yet this year, so we had no previous number to
compare. Thanks for everyones help. Maureen

~ janj JJsPond.us wrote:
On 5 Jun 2005 12:51:02 -0700, "mos" wrote:

We had an entire day of heavy rain on Friday. My sisters pond which is
about 500g is located in full sun, raised above ground abour 1/2 a
foot, and usually has green algae hiding the 8 fish.

Saturday morning we came out to find the pond completely crystal
clear....and then noticed the fish were all just sort of hanging in the
water....or on the bottom. There was no ammonia level and the ph was
8.0. She tried to rescue the fish to a separate tank, but only two
have survived.

Any idea what could have caused this massive die off? The only variable
we can come up with was the rain.... She doesn't use any chemicals on
her property or lawn. As soon as I saw that the algae was gone, I
thought this couldn't be good, at first thinking the fish were hiding
due to lack of cover. I just lost a frog after this rain, and my
neighbors largest fish died.

Thanks for any input, the fish looked fine, no fuzz/fungus/weird
looking things there, and were fine on Thursday.

Mo

Do you know what the pH was prior to the rain? Did you test for ammonia? or
KH? Usually rain lowers the pH and KH and causes swings, but fish usually
get sick not just instantly die. Same with the pH dropping suddenly could
have killed the algae that was filtering the water, but I wouldn't expect a
die off so immediately. Was it larger fish dying over smaller fish, or vis-
a-versa? Any over hanging trees or roof eaves? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

On 5 Jun 2005 17:22:55 -0700, "mos" wrote:

Yesterday the ph was 8.0 today it is 7.8 and the two remaining fish
seem fine.
She only had tests for ph and Ammonia. No roots or any overhangs,
seems like all the larger fish died, I suppose the dieoff of the algae
didn't help the 02 in the water either. Unbelievable to see that much
algae die off literally overnight....then to loose the fish. She
hadn't checked the pH yet this year, so we had no previous number to
compare. Thanks for everyones help. Maureen

Roy hit the nail on the head, large fish dying first, usually means low O2.

I would recommend those who live in areas of much rainfall have the test to
measure KH. Rain water has no buffering, and supplemental treatments need
to be added unless other means are in the ponds.

Okay, help me out RPers, was it limestone or crush oyster shells that was
recommended as a slower method than baking soda to increase buffering?
~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Oyster shells are much slower to buffer than limestone. I have
approximately 1 ton of crushed opyster shells added to my pond. I only
se a ph /kh swing after a very heavy rainfall in excess of say 6 to 8
inches and thats only if my pond is low, and i retain all the water
that fell. (my pond is filled by a ratio of 4:1, so if it rains 1" my
pond raises 4", so a rainfall of 6 inches can put what is equal to 24"
of new water into my pond, which is quite a large influx of new
water.....If it is full, the majority of the rainfall does not
interfere too much and my ph and buffering stay pretty well close to
what it normally is.......Not much I can really do in adjusting it in
my pond, so i don;t normally check it, but have played around just to
see what happens with heavy rains. I know for a fact though using my
Dissolved O2 meter O2 levels are substantially reduced with
rainfalls.......

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 23:26:33 -0700, ~ janj JJsPond.us
wrote:

===On 5 Jun 2005 17:22:55 -0700, "mos" wrote:
===
===Yesterday the ph was 8.0 today it is 7.8 and the two remaining fish
===seem fine.
===She only had tests for ph and Ammonia. No roots or any overhangs,
===seems like all the larger fish died, I suppose the dieoff of the algae
===didn't help the 02 in the water either. Unbelievable to see that much
===algae die off literally overnight....then to loose the fish. She
===hadn't checked the pH yet this year, so we had no previous number to
===compare. Thanks for everyones help. Maureen
===
===Roy hit the nail on the head, large fish dying first, usually means low O2.
===
===I would recommend those who live in areas of much rainfall have the test to
===measure KH. Rain water has no buffering, and supplemental treatments need
===to be added unless other means are in the ponds.
===
===Okay, help me out RPers, was it limestone or crush oyster shells that was
===recommended as a slower method than baking soda to increase buffering?
=== ~ jan
===
===
=== ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!

~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

Every year we have tropical storms that dump over 20 inches of rain in
the span of 3 months, And I have had downpours of over 6 inches of
rainfall in one day but have never had a fish kill....but the fish do
seem to lie at the bottom of the pond for 2 days or so, then become
active again.
I have plenty of airstones in the pond just in case.

Either limestone, Ca2CO3, or oyster shells can be used. Some say dolomitic
limestone which has a portion of the material as dolomite, CaMgCO3.
Dolomite does not readily dissolve. The geologist tell the difference by
spraying muratic acid on the rock. If it fizzes, its limestone. They do
not dissolve at higher pH values, but if there is enough of either in the
flow from the filter, which should be the most acid, high in CO2, they will
dissolve and prevent a pH crash. They do not give the high KH values that I
have been led to believe are needed for my bead filters, so I use baking
soda.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"~ janj JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
On 5 Jun 2005 17:22:55 -0700, "mos" wrote:

Yesterday the ph was 8.0 today it is 7.8 and the two remaining fish
seem fine.
She only had tests for ph and Ammonia. No roots or any overhangs,
seems like all the larger fish died, I suppose the dieoff of the algae
didn't help the 02 in the water either. Unbelievable to see that much
algae die off literally overnight....then to loose the fish. She
hadn't checked the pH yet this year, so we had no previous number to
compare. Thanks for everyones help. Maureen

Roy hit the nail on the head, large fish dying first, usually means low
O2.

I would recommend those who live in areas of much rainfall have the test
to
measure KH. Rain water has no buffering, and supplemental treatments need
to be added unless other means are in the ponds.

Okay, help me out RPers, was it limestone or crush oyster shells that was
recommended as a slower method than baking soda to increase buffering?
~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

[Roy hit the nail on the head, large fish dying first, usually means low O2.

I would recommend those who live in areas of much rainfall have the test to
measure KH. Rain water has no buffering, and supplemental treatments need
to be added unless other means are in the ponds.

Okay, help me out RPers, was it limestone or crush oyster shells that was
recommended as a slower method than baking soda to increase buffering?
~ jan


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~[/quote]

Most tap water (at least here in the US) has calcium carbonate wich will buffer your water. I doubt it was a PH crash. I agree that low O2 is the most likely culprit, fish deaths from low O2 usually occur early in the morning- before the sun is up.

Most tap water (at least here in the US) has calcium carbonate wich will
buffer your water.

True, but this wasn't tap water that was added. It was a large volume of
rain water, no buffering. So it could have been a pH crash, but the OP had
apparently had plenty of buffering prior to the rain. ~ jan


I doubt it was a PH crash. I agree that low O2 is
the most likely culprit, fish deaths from low O2 usually occur early in
the morning- before the sun is up.


~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~