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What pest is this?
Xref: news7 rec.gardens.roses:91014
On Tue, 8 Apr 2003, "Shiva" wrote: Mike wrote: I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that you're not going to hurt the fauna you're fond of. That's because of the bad news: there's no IPM for stem sawflies, i.e. no way to treat stem sawflies other than pruning, *unless* you're comfortable using a systemic insecticide. There are reasons not to do that, mostly having to do with spider mites. Rose stem sawflies get some buds every year, but not many of them. Spider mites are considered the much greater risk to roses, and the use of systemic insecticides is thought to suppress spider mite predators. I'm guessing that's because most systemic insecticides have both systemic and contact action, but I don't know for sure as I never use them. I had sawflies before I began using Orthenx, and do not have it now. Moreover, I do not and have NEVER had spider mites. Go to the Ortho.com page and read about Orthenex. It does not have a contact insecticide. It works systemically. There is now a miticide added to it, as well. The latter addition is a fairly recent development. There is no reason to allow sawflie damage in your garden, Mike. I have been using this stuff for three or four years--and contrary to the Chicken Little people, I have earthworms, lady bugs, bees, etc. I do not have spider mites, and in fact have no insect damage at all save thrips. Surely there are others who have the same experience. Weeeell, that is good news/bad news. I'll do a little research and see if they have natural enemies or if you can see the eggs and pick them off, etc. I wonder why I've never seen the damage before? Maybe they get so few buds I just never noticed. Hopefully. g It sounds like using an isecticide is a cure worse than the disease, though. NOT. Do your research. Hi Shiva, I went to Ortho's website and checked out their PDF label for Orthenex. When I read all the warnings regarding humans, pets, bees and birds exposure to their product, I called Ortho. It absolutely does function as a contact insecticide, read the label. It states "..quickly kills sprayed insects and mites and continues controlling insects which feed on treated plants." It is extremely toxic to amphibians (my toads, geckoes and anoles.) The residue on the leaves is toxic and will kill bees, ladybugs, praying mantis and any other insect on contact. It states not to use this product if bees are visiting the area. It is toxic to birds. Birds don't eat roses. It is contact with the residue that remains on the leaves that kills them. I've never had a bird that sat in the bush while I was spraying, lifting each wing for me so I can get it all over. It states if you get this on your skin, seek medical attention. This is straight from the people who want me to buy the product, so I gotta believe it. I had three buds so far with sawfly damage, all on seperate plants. It's not panic time, yet. I'm no chemophobe - I spray for fungal diseases. If pests become a nightmare, I will find a product and use it. By the way, when I called them - I had to probe to get Ortho to admit this. They started out by saying "it's systemic, it doesn't kill on contact." When I started pointing out what was on their own label and asking how in the world it could be toxic to things that don't eat plants, I got put on hold and eventually someone came back on the line and confirmed that it does kill on contact as well. The first lady I spoke with was simply reading the label off the website as I was. She complained about how slowly Acrobat scrolled. She initially stopped as soon as she saw the word "systemic" and concluded that it did not kill on contact until I encouraged her to read farther. These are not experts manning their phone banks. Dig deeper. I'm glad to hear that you have had good results with Orthenex and don't seem to notice a population problem with your beneficials. I'm worried about the amphibians, birds and bees, though. They particularly stressed how toxic it is to amphibians. I'm just trying to be safe and not sorry. Like I said, it's not panic time yet. Thanks, Mike z8TX |
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