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#1
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bareroot question
I live in Fairbanks Alaska (zone 1, but up to 80s and 90s in the summer)
and I just got my four J&P bareroot plants this week. Yippee!! In the past I've kept my roses in big pots and wintered them in my garage, which works OK. However, I'm starting to run out of room on my patio for all these pots (Ok, I'll admit to impulse buying the four roses without really thinking it through, but hey, is that really SO bad?) My question is: I have several large raised beds that I use for annuals mostly and I'm thinking of putting the roses in them. I'd have to dig them up in the fall, though. *Before* I plant them, does anyone have any suggestions? How would roses cope with being dug up and replanted every fall and spring? Would it be better just to pot them and squeeze a little tighter on the patio? If planting them in the beds is OK, is there anything I should do at the beginning to make it easier to dig in the fall? Thanks in advance! Kim |
#2
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bareroot question
Heres what I do,
I live in the moutains of southern california, and I've tried to grow citrus trees in my yard, but they always die over the winter with temps getting down to about 13f. So, I plant them in containers, and put the containers in the ground, then when winter comes I just pull up the containers and bring them into the house and keep them under grow lights. Then the next year I check to see that they are not root bound, if so I just replant them in bigger containers. So far I've only had to repot them once, and these are dwarf citrus trees by the way. I would just keep them in containers above ground on my driveway, but it gets too hot here in the summer and they wither from the heat since the roots get so hot. I wonder how roses would handle this? Just a thought. "chelatna" wrote in message ... : I live in Fairbanks Alaska (zone 1, but up to 80s and 90s in the summer) : and I just got my four J&P bareroot plants this week. Yippee!! In the : past I've kept my roses in big pots and wintered them in my garage, : which works OK. However, I'm starting to run out of room on my patio for : all these pots (Ok, I'll admit to impulse buying the four roses without : really thinking it through, but hey, is that really SO bad?) My question : is: I have several large raised beds that I use for annuals mostly and : I'm thinking of putting the roses in them. I'd have to dig them up in : the fall, though. *Before* I plant them, does anyone have any : suggestions? How would roses cope with being dug up and replanted every : fall and spring? Would it be better just to pot them and squeeze a : little tighter on the patio? If planting them in the beds is OK, is : there anything I should do at the beginning to make it easier to dig in : the fall? : Thanks in advance! : Kim : |
#3
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bareroot question
Kim,
How's this, someone from Florida, zone 9, giving advice to someone in zone 1? g My suggestion would be to put the roses in the containers, then place the containers in the raised bed. That way when you remove them in the fall you would keep most of the roots intact and they should come back more easily next spring. You could even build another raised bed frame (without soil), place your pots inside and surround them with mulch. Hey, I know when you have more roses than space, you can get very creative! chelatna writes: I live in Fairbanks Alaska (zone 1, but up to 80s and 90s in the summer) and I just got my four J&P bareroot plants this week. Yippee!! In the past I've kept my roses in big pots and wintered them in my garage, which works OK. However, I'm starting to run out of room on my patio for all these pots (Ok, I'll admit to impulse buying the four roses without really thinking it through, but hey, is that really SO bad?) My question is: I have several large raised beds that I use for annuals mostly and I'm thinking of putting the roses in them. I'd have to dig them up in the fall, though. *Before* I plant them, does anyone have any suggestions? How would roses cope with being dug up and replanted every fall and spring? Would it be better just to pot them and squeeze a little tighter on the patio? If planting them in the beds is OK, is there anything I should do at the beginning to make it easier to dig in the fall? |
#4
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bareroot question
They will have to be protected to survive a zone 1 winter.
You might try 'container in container'. Put a large empty container in the ground and then insert the container which contains the rose. The advantage is better temperature stability and reduced moisture loss. If you dig them up each year they will remain small plants and not have a change to develop beyond a 'first year' plant. Tim "chelatna" wrote in message ... I live in Fairbanks Alaska (zone 1, but up to 80s and 90s in the summer) and I just got my four J&P bareroot plants this week. Yippee!! In the past I've kept my roses in big pots and wintered them in my garage, which works OK. However, I'm starting to run out of room on my patio for all these pots (Ok, I'll admit to impulse buying the four roses without really thinking it through, but hey, is that really SO bad?) My question is: I have several large raised beds that I use for annuals mostly and I'm thinking of putting the roses in them. I'd have to dig them up in the fall, though. *Before* I plant them, does anyone have any suggestions? How would roses cope with being dug up and replanted every fall and spring? Would it be better just to pot them and squeeze a little tighter on the patio? If planting them in the beds is OK, is there anything I should do at the beginning to make it easier to dig in the fall? Thanks in advance! Kim |
#5
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bareroot question
How's this, someone from Florida, zone 9, giving advice to someone in zone
1? g Oh! I don't find it so funny. Just do the exact opposite of what you do in florida. Simple Huh! Heh! Man Zone 1. And here I have trouble w/ -20F weather. I'd say stick to what works for you. As far as burying and piling w/ mulch stuff goes it has very limited use even here in Z5. If you want to try buring remember you have to get below the frost line. Here it is @ 24 inches. If you do not the roots will freeze & your rose will die. -- Theo in Zone 5 Kansas City |
#6
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bareroot question
"Theo Asir" writes:
As far as burying and piling w/ mulch stuff goes it has very limited use even here in Z5. If you want to try buring remember you have to get below the frost line. Here it is @ 24 inches. If you do not the roots will freeze & your rose will die. Theo, I guess I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting she leave them there all winter. She said she was bringing her potted plants in the garage and I was thinking of doing the same thing with these. They will still be potted plants, just not on her patio where she's out of space. She can bring them inside without disturbing the roots as much as planting and digging them up every year. It was just to give her another location for roses in the summer. Julie |
#7
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bareroot question
Right you are. I thought it was the garage running out of space and not the patio. Your suggestions are very appropriate. -- Theo in Zone 5 Kansas City "Unique Too" wrote in message ... "Theo Asir" writes: As far as burying and piling w/ mulch stuff goes it has very limited use even here in Z5. If you want to try buring remember you have to get below the frost line. Here it is @ 24 inches. If you do not the roots will freeze & your rose will die. Theo, I guess I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting she leave them there all winter. She said she was bringing her potted plants in the garage and I was thinking of doing the same thing with these. They will still be potted plants, just not on her patio where she's out of space. She can bring them inside without disturbing the roots as much as planting and digging them up every year. It was just to give her another location for roses in the summer. Julie |
#8
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bareroot question
If you want to try buring remember
you have to get below the frost line. Here it is @ 24 inches. If you do not the roots will freeze & your rose will die. Some people here on the hills can get away with mulching, mounding, etc. Hills can be up to Z3 or Z4 even on the south sides. I'm in a valley. :-( I put some daffy bulbs in the prospective rose bed last fall and covered it really well, figuring that if they survived roses might, but alas, I finally dug in last week to find some really icky squishy bulbs. One question I do have is: honestly how cold can a rose take, say, overnight? Can they do down to the 20s or lower if it warms up in the daytime? I think I took mine in too soon last fall, right after the second or third frost, and they had a hard time going dormant. Thanks, Kim |
#9
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bareroot question
Theo Asir wrote:
I thought it was the garage running out of space and not the patio. Right now, it's the patio with a space problem. Come September I will have to start getting creative with the space in the garage too. Oddly enough, would you believe that since my garage is heated the biggest problem I had last winter was it getting too warm (50s) so the roses kept putting out shoots. At least they survived. ;-) Kim |
#10
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bareroot question
Tim Tompkins wrote:
If you dig them up each year they will remain small plants and not have a change to develop beyond a 'first year' plant. Following up on this, how often do you think the potted plants should be repotted or potted up? I've got them in the big resin pots from Sam's Club (14 and 18 inches I think) but at some point I will need something bigger like a half barrel. What are the signs a rose needs a bigger pot? Thanks! Kim |
#11
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bareroot question
One question I do have is: honestly how cold can a rose take, say, overnight? Can they do down to the 20s or lower if it warms up in the daytime? I think I took mine in too soon last fall, right after the second or third frost, and they had a hard time going dormant. Kim I'll answer your question seperately. First a roses cold tolerance depends on the variety. Some old roses such as Alba's or Gallica's can take upto -30F before they give up. JP's tend to be Hybrid Teas. These tend to have fatal difficulties w/ Zero degree tempretures. Very tender. No rose that I know can tolerate a Zone 1 unprotected. The rose w/ the greatest cold tolerance is the species rose Rosa Acicularis which grows at the poles and even it is Zone 2 rated. On the other hand your micro-climate might be milder. If so Suzzane is a rose much recommended for extremely cold area's. Also the Rugosa roses are known to tolerate -35F tempretures without protection. Second When night time tempretures dip to 20 F most roses tend to shut down most of their processes. It takes them atleast a week of warm weather to recover. Some Hybrid Teas will loose substantial parts of their branches as they are not cold acclimatized. So if such cold threatens you might move your roses into the garage. Thirdly keeping roses dormant inside heated/unheated garages or basements is a common problem. It is not a function of how long you kept it in frost, as it is the garage tempreture. You indicated in another post that you garage gets up to 50F. This is way too warm for a dormant rose. the tempreture needs to be @ about 25-30F to keep the rose dormant. If you can turn down the heat to the garage get one of those cushioned play mats from toys'r us and place the roses one that. This will ensure the pots don't freeze from contact w/ the ground. Alternately you could withhold water and keep the soil just moist. This too helps keep a rose in dormancy. DO NOT let it go dry. -- Theo in Zone 5 Kansas City |
#12
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bareroot question
chelatna wrote in
: Following up on this, how often do you think the potted plants should be repotted or potted up? I've got them in the big resin pots from Sam's Club (14 and 18 inches I think) but at some point I will need something bigger like a half barrel. What are the signs a rose needs a bigger pot? Signs I've noticed include yellowing lower leaves (not related to insects or fungus/bacterial attacks)---and I mean a lot of yellow leaves, not just a few here or there. Sometimes the rose leaf stays green but loses its luster or sheen. Sometimes bloom will cease or become intermittent. When one of my roses starts to look fussy in this way, I usually check the roots by gently slipping the plant out of the pot to see whether the roots are confined or growing in circles. I do this frequently with my cuttings; admittedly it's easier with one-gallon size roses than with five gallon, but even five gallon plants can be inspected by sliding the plant sideways out of the pot to see how vigorous the root system might be (try not to break the root ball, though, and pop it back into the pot if all looks well). I'm a great believer in knowing what's going on with roots as much as one can because the health of container roses can depend on it. This is the area where roses continue to surprise me; mine are always outgrowing their pots when I'm least prepared for it. When I don't have anything bigger to put them in, I apply bonsai techniques and prune back a small portion of the roots, adding fresh soil to the bottom of the pot and pruning minimally on top to balance root loss, and water once replanted. This seems to rejuvenate the plant for more midseason growth. I'm not sure I'd recommend this in regional zones where growing season is short; you might want to experiment to see whether it works for you. In zone 10B where I am some of my roses put out non-stop growth all season and require potting upward several times a year. It's like trying to anticipate the shoe size of a twelve-year-old boy from one month to another.... ---- |
#13
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bareroot question
Theo Asir wrote:
No rose that I know can tolerate a Zone 1 unprotected. The rose w/ the greatest cold tolerance is the species rose Rosa Acicularis which grows at the poles and even it is Zone 2 rated. Also the Rugosa roses are known to tolerate -35F tempretures without protection. Yes, Rugosas do well here, often unprotected, and we have a thriving population of "wild" roses--not sure exactly what they are, but they're everywhere. Thirdly keeping roses dormant inside heated/unheated garages or basements is a common problem. It is not a function of how long you kept it in frost, as it is the garage tempreture. You indicated in another post that you garage gets up to 50F. This is way too warm for a dormant rose. the tempreture needs to be @ about 25-30F to keep the rose dormant. Thanks, I wasn't sure if they could stay under freezing like that and survive. If you can turn down the heat to the garage get one of those cushioned play mats from toys'r us and place the roses one that. This will ensure the pots don't freeze from contact w/ the ground. What a great idea! I wonder if that blue insulation foam would work as well. The hard part about the garage is that the furnace is there and even when the space heater part is off, it can be pretty warm just from the furnace. Maybe I'll try building an insulated rose box in the coldest corner of the garage this fall--try to protect from both extremes. Alternately you could withhold water and keep the soil just moist. This too helps keep a rose in dormancy. DO NOT let it go dry. Would you suggest covering it with something nonpermeable like a plastic bag (assuming I could get it around the thorns without poking it full of holes!). Or would this encourage mildew or parasites too much? Thank you for such helpful answers and suggestions! My grandfather was an expert rose man, and I'm sad that I've come to roses too late for him to have helped me out. Kim |
#14
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bareroot question
saki wrote:
I'm a great believer in knowing what's going on with roots as much as one can because the health of container roses can depend on it. This is the area where roses continue to surprise me; mine are always outgrowing their pots when I'm least prepared for it. When I don't have anything bigger to put them in, I apply bonsai techniques and prune back a small portion of the roots, adding fresh soil to the bottom of the pot and pruning minimally on top to balance root loss, and water once replanted. Hmmm. I hadn't really considered using bonsai techniques but it makes a lot of sense. Would you recommend sealing the cut ends of the large roots like I do the canes? Thanks for the other suggestions and things to look for. This is all really helpful. I'll post some pictures later when I have good plants and flowers. Kim |
#15
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bareroot question
chelatna wrote in
: saki wrote: I'm a great believer in knowing what's going on with roots as much as one can because the health of container roses can depend on it. This is the area where roses continue to surprise me; mine are always outgrowing their pots when I'm least prepared for it. When I don't have anything bigger to put them in, I apply bonsai techniques and prune back a small portion of the roots, adding fresh soil to the bottom of the pot and pruning minimally on top to balance root loss, and water once replanted. Hmmm. I hadn't really considered using bonsai techniques but it makes a lot of sense. Would you recommend sealing the cut ends of the large roots like I do the canes? Not necessary. For the most part you'd be trimming small fibrous roots, and these don't need special protection. I've cut back larger roots as well without the plant fussing at all. Naturally you'd only do this if the plant is already showing signs of being rootbound (I'd avoid trying this technique on a plant loaded with buds) and only if you can also lightly trim foliage as well to balance (more or less) the root mass you'd be removing. Of course don't tell Mr. Hennessey! http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/main.html (An excellent article by Jim Delahanty on one of the more eccentric rosarians in history. Mr. Hennessey did not like folks to prune roots, or much else, apparently....) Thanks for the other suggestions and things to look for. This is all really helpful. I'll post some pictures later when I have good plants and flowers. Please do. I'd like to see them. ---- |
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