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Old 15-03-2003, 07:09 AM
Susan Solomon
 
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Default Dying bareroot

Hi all
I apologize for asking this ... I think it has been covered before, but
....

I purchased a beautiful, fresh and healthy-looking bareroot bagged Peace HT
from Home Depot several weeks ago, and proceeded to plant it immediately
after shaking off the moist sawdust packing. (it's in a clay-sand mix in
full sun) I watered the plant well after planting, , and water it every 2
days. However, over three weeks have gone by, no buds have broken, and
horror of horrors, the canes are starting to dry out. (Not turn black, as in
canker, just dry out - dessicate.) It sure looks like it's going to be a
fatality.

Should I dig it up and soak it for a couple of days, then plant it again?
The three other roses I purchased and planted the same day are doing well
and have begun to grow. ???

I appreciate any help you can give!
Thanks!
Sue in SoCal



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Old 15-03-2003, 08:10 AM
Allegra
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying bareroot


"Susan Solomon" asked:

I purchased a beautiful, fresh and healthy-looking bareroot bagged Peace

HT
from Home Depot several weeks ago, and proceeded to plant it immediately
after shaking off the moist sawdust packing. (it's in a clay-sand mix in
full sun) I watered the plant well after planting, , and water it every 2
days. However, over three weeks have gone by, no buds have broken, and
horror of horrors, the canes are starting to dry out. (Not turn black, as

in
canker, just dry out - dessicate.) It sure looks like it's going to be a
fatality.

Should I dig it up and soak it for a couple of days, then plant it again?
The three other roses I purchased and planted the same day are doing well
and have begun to grow. ???

I appreciate any help you can give!
Thanks!
Sue in SoCal


Hello Sue,

Let's start from ground zero he never plant a bareroot
rose right out of the bag or the box, or the whatever they
are in.

When you get them home get some warm water in a bucket
(not cold as the capillaries close with cold water and warm
tends to help open them) and let that poor thing soak up
to 24 hours. Just before planting it, get some Super Thrive
diluted with water (you don't need much, just enough
to moisten the roots after you put it in the ground) and
then take that baby to its new home. Make the mound and
spread the roots, and now moisten them well with the Super
Thrive mixture. If you have any alfalfa pellets add some
and if you are in a dry area put some water crystals, no
more than a couple of tablespoons around before covering
the whole thing with soil. A bit of mulch wouldn't hurt
and probably will help at this point.

Since the rose in question appears to be in some kind of
distress -not to talk about the owner ;) - you really have
nothing to lose by checking where the roots are at now.
So carefully lift the plant and gently wash away any soil
that may cling to the roots. Get your Super Thrive and
warm water and try to see if that helps. If in fact the poor
thing is dehydrated this will help. If the problem is some
other thing, it wouldn't hurt. I suspect that the way those
poor things get whacked at the knee has something to do
with it. But some times you can rescue them from that
miserable starting point and make them healthy.

Check to make sure there are no cane borers or any other
insect having lunch and dinner on your rose and make
sure the soil around the rose is friable, or at least well
amended to give the poor roots a break. I am sure others
will chime in with better advice but if it was my rose
that is certainly what I would do. Good luck and happy
gardening,

Allegra


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Old 15-03-2003, 05:08 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying bareroot

On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 07:05:55 GMT, "Allegra"
wrote:


"Susan Solomon" asked:

I purchased a beautiful, fresh and healthy-looking bareroot bagged Peace

HT
from Home Depot several weeks ago, and proceeded to plant it immediately
after shaking off the moist sawdust packing. (it's in a clay-sand mix in
full sun) I watered the plant well after planting, , and water it every 2
days. However, over three weeks have gone by, no buds have broken, and
horror of horrors, the canes are starting to dry out. (Not turn black, as

in
canker, just dry out - dessicate.) It sure looks like it's going to be a
fatality.

Should I dig it up and soak it for a couple of days, then plant it again?
The three other roses I purchased and planted the same day are doing well
and have begun to grow. ???

I appreciate any help you can give!
Thanks!
Sue in SoCal


Hello Sue,

Let's start from ground zero he never plant a bareroot
rose right out of the bag or the box, or the whatever they
are in.

When you get them home get some warm water in a bucket
(not cold as the capillaries close with cold water and warm
tends to help open them) and let that poor thing soak up
to 24 hours. Just before planting it, get some Super Thrive
diluted with water (you don't need much, just enough
to moisten the roots after you put it in the ground) and
then take that baby to its new home. Make the mound and
spread the roots, and now moisten them well with the Super
Thrive mixture. If you have any alfalfa pellets add some
and if you are in a dry area put some water crystals, no
more than a couple of tablespoons around before covering
the whole thing with soil. A bit of mulch wouldn't hurt
and probably will help at this point.

Since the rose in question appears to be in some kind of
distress -not to talk about the owner ;) - you really have
nothing to lose by checking where the roots are at now.
So carefully lift the plant and gently wash away any soil
that may cling to the roots. Get your Super Thrive and
warm water and try to see if that helps. If in fact the poor
thing is dehydrated this will help. If the problem is some
other thing, it wouldn't hurt. I suspect that the way those
poor things get whacked at the knee has something to do
with it. But some times you can rescue them from that
miserable starting point and make them healthy.

Check to make sure there are no cane borers or any other
insect having lunch and dinner on your rose and make
sure the soil around the rose is friable, or at least well
amended to give the poor roots a break. I am sure others
will chime in with better advice but if it was my rose
that is certainly what I would do. Good luck and happy
gardening,

Allegra

The other thing to consider is that the plant itself needs protection
from drying winds and direct sun while it gets its root system
established (although sun has been the least of our worries here in
Nashville lately g). That's why it's recommended that you completely
cover the canes with mulch until you start to see buds breaking
through the mulch. By covering it, you keep it moister than just
watering the ground and I suspect that it keeps the canes hydrated as
well. It usually takes 3-4 weeks before you remove the mulch (at least
here in zone 6b).

If you remove and repeat, don't forget the mound of mulch this time.
It will help, *if* the plant isn't already gone.

Also, if you get some growth, give it some epson salts, blood meal and
alfalfa meal in addition to any fertilizer that you give it to try to
jumpstart new basal growth (I think it's the epson salts, but someone
might correct me).

Best of luck!
  #4   Report Post  
Old 15-03-2003, 05:32 PM
Susan Solomon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying bareroot

Thanks to you both for your responses! I'll give your suggestions a try.
Sue

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 07:05:55 GMT, "Allegra"
wrote:


"Susan Solomon" asked:

I purchased a beautiful, fresh and healthy-looking bareroot bagged

Peace
HT
from Home Depot several weeks ago, and proceeded to plant it

immediately
after shaking off the moist sawdust packing. (it's in a clay-sand mix

in
full sun) I watered the plant well after planting, , and water it every

2
days. However, over three weeks have gone by, no buds have broken, and
horror of horrors, the canes are starting to dry out. (Not turn black,

as
in
canker, just dry out - dessicate.) It sure looks like it's going to be

a
fatality.

Should I dig it up and soak it for a couple of days, then plant it

again?
The three other roses I purchased and planted the same day are doing

well
and have begun to grow. ???

I appreciate any help you can give!
Thanks!
Sue in SoCal


Hello Sue,

Let's start from ground zero he never plant a bareroot
rose right out of the bag or the box, or the whatever they
are in.

When you get them home get some warm water in a bucket
(not cold as the capillaries close with cold water and warm
tends to help open them) and let that poor thing soak up
to 24 hours. Just before planting it, get some Super Thrive
diluted with water (you don't need much, just enough
to moisten the roots after you put it in the ground) and
then take that baby to its new home. Make the mound and
spread the roots, and now moisten them well with the Super
Thrive mixture. If you have any alfalfa pellets add some
and if you are in a dry area put some water crystals, no
more than a couple of tablespoons around before covering
the whole thing with soil. A bit of mulch wouldn't hurt
and probably will help at this point.

Since the rose in question appears to be in some kind of
distress -not to talk about the owner ;) - you really have
nothing to lose by checking where the roots are at now.
So carefully lift the plant and gently wash away any soil
that may cling to the roots. Get your Super Thrive and
warm water and try to see if that helps. If in fact the poor
thing is dehydrated this will help. If the problem is some
other thing, it wouldn't hurt. I suspect that the way those
poor things get whacked at the knee has something to do
with it. But some times you can rescue them from that
miserable starting point and make them healthy.

Check to make sure there are no cane borers or any other
insect having lunch and dinner on your rose and make
sure the soil around the rose is friable, or at least well
amended to give the poor roots a break. I am sure others
will chime in with better advice but if it was my rose
that is certainly what I would do. Good luck and happy
gardening,

Allegra

The other thing to consider is that the plant itself needs protection
from drying winds and direct sun while it gets its root system
established (although sun has been the least of our worries here in
Nashville lately g). That's why it's recommended that you completely
cover the canes with mulch until you start to see buds breaking
through the mulch. By covering it, you keep it moister than just
watering the ground and I suspect that it keeps the canes hydrated as
well. It usually takes 3-4 weeks before you remove the mulch (at least
here in zone 6b).

If you remove and repeat, don't forget the mound of mulch this time.
It will help, *if* the plant isn't already gone.

Also, if you get some growth, give it some epson salts, blood meal and
alfalfa meal in addition to any fertilizer that you give it to try to
jumpstart new basal growth (I think it's the epson salts, but someone
might correct me).

Best of luck!



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Old 16-03-2003, 09:44 AM
Zphysics1
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying bareroot


Should I dig it up and soak it for a couple of days, then plant it again?
The three other roses I purchased and planted the same day are doing well
and have begun to grow. ???

I appreciate any help you can give!
Thanks!
Sue in SoCa

Sue, we have been having an interesting 'winter' in So Cal -- so it may be that
you did not soak with water enough after you planted the rose. I actually
bought at lot of cheap roses from HD and haven't had the time to plant them .
My eyes were too big. Anyway, I did keep the bareroots wet and was able to
plant them a couple of weeks later. All thrived -- including the one which had
hardly any bareroots at all. Personally, I do not follow the 'rules for
planting' put out be magazines and garden gurus. I go be instinct and common
sense. I have to start from scratch since I moved last December. The new place
had clayey soil. I mixed a good dose of Bumper Crop to the soil before I
planted the roses and kept the roses watered everyday -- especially with the
Santa Ana winds.

BTW, three out of four isn't bad. One should expect 'casualties' . This
weekend's rain storm should be most helpful.

/z.



  #7   Report Post  
Old 16-03-2003, 06:20 PM
Rob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying bareroot

Susan, you probably saw this in my earlier post, but I've repeated it
below. I would not dig the bush up as has been suggested, because if it
has started developing tiny rootlets you'll destroy them.



I would also like to add that it is better NOT to mix in alfalfa in de
planting hole, as it might damage the roots when it decomposes.
Additionally, most rosarians recommend NOT to add any fertilizer when you
plant a bareroot rose. Other than damaging the plants roots, the abundance
of nutrients will make the rose think that it has enough roots already and
slow the development of its root system: it will make your rose lazy. Adding
decomposed organic material will do the job, as this releases its stored
nutrients slowly, and retains moisture.

Good luck!

Rob


  #8   Report Post  
Old 16-03-2003, 08:56 PM
Daniel Hanna
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying bareroot

In Rob wrote:
I would also like to add that it is better NOT to mix in alfalfa in de
planting hole, as it might damage the roots when it decomposes.


Not meaning to be rude, but how, exactly?

Additionally, most rosarians recommend NOT to add any fertilizer when
you plant a bareroot rose. Other than damaging the plants roots, the
abundance of nutrients will make the rose think that it has enough
roots already and slow the development of its root system: it will
make your rose lazy.


I agree that quick release fertilisers and manures will burn roots, but
Osmocote and other organic types (alfalfa included) are great in small
quantities. The idea that roses would become lazy around the presence
of nutrients is an absurd concept.
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Old 16-03-2003, 10:32 PM
Rob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying bareroot

I would also like to add that it is better NOT to mix in alfalfa in de
planting hole, as it might damage the roots when it decomposes.


Not meaning to be rude, but how, exactly?


It's not from my own experience, but a lot of websites writing about alfalfa
say it's better not to add it to the planting hole because the decomposing
of the alfalfa generates heat. Maybe it is safe to use in small quantities,
like you state, but maybe not. To be on the safe side, use alfalfa as a top
dressing and use decomposed organics (compost) as a soil amendment in the
planting hole.

I agree that quick release fertilisers and manures will burn roots, but
Osmocote and other organic types (alfalfa included) are great in small
quantities. The idea that roses would become lazy around the presence
of nutrients is an absurd concept.


Well, the part about the laziness was just illustrative. I meant to point
out that an abundance of nutrients might slow down root formation, because
there is less stimulus to spread out and search for 'food'. Or, explained
differently, if there is an abundance of nitrogen, the plant starts to grows
stems and leaves before its root system would be the size you want it to be.
Also, you don't need to add fertilizers to a plant that does not have roots
yet, because it cannot absorb the nutrients. Give it a year to get the root
system going and then start fertilizing for good growth and nice flowers.

Rob


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Old 17-03-2003, 02:08 AM
Snooze
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying bareroot

"Daniel Hanna" wrote in message
home.com.au...
In Rob wrote:
I would also like to add that it is better NOT to mix in alfalfa in de
planting hole, as it might damage the roots when it decomposes.


Not meaning to be rude, but how, exactly?


I suppose as the alfalfa decomposes it could generate heat, the same way the
bacteria that breakdown compost piles generate heat. I just use a handful of
alfalfa pellets that i stir around the soil/compost/and various ammendments,
so that there is a more homogenious mix, rather then layers of various
goodies.

The only thing I add to the soil, just before I plant the rose is bone meal,
and that because I want the phosphorous to be as close to the roots as
possible.

Sameer


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Old 17-03-2003, 02:56 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default Dying bareroot

I've been adding Osmocote to planting holes along with bone meal and
alfalfa pellets for 5 years with good results. We plant bareroots here
while the soil is still too cold to release very much nitrogen or other
nutrients from a coated fertilizer. In fact, that is why I apply a mild
solution of water soluble fertilizer in the early spring, after all
the roses have leafed out and shown vigorous new growth. (Just did it
today: combination of liquid kelp and Growmore Magnum Rose food at
about half strength). But even when I plant potted roses in the middle
of summer I add Osmocote to the soil mix.

I doubt that adequate nutrients stunt growth; in fact, I suspect that
the contrary is true. The hard part is knowing what is *optimal*, what
is superfluous and therefore a waste of resources and what is excessive
and therefore deleterious. I've read enough about growth mechanisms in
plants to believe that more top growth stimulates more root growth and
more root growth stimulates more top growth until the plant reaches its
genetically determined size.

A bareroot rose develops feeder roots much sooner than one year. Just
consider how soon you will see roots in the drainage holes. By that
time, the feeders will have filled the 5 gallon pot. Certainly the rose
could tolerate feeding by then! IMO, waiting until then it too long.
I've watched the rate of root growth in own root roses, and it can be
considerable: from a band to filling a one gallon pot within 3 weeks.
In the spring, the 5 gallon will fill with feeder roots within 3 or 4
months, depending on the size of the rose.


Rob wrote:

I would also like to add that it is better NOT to mix in alfalfa
in de planting hole, as it might damage the roots when it
decomposes.


but how, exactly?


It's not from my own experience, but a lot of websites writing about
alfalfa say it's better not to add it to the planting hole because
the decomposing of the alfalfa generates heat. Maybe it is safe to
use in small quantities, like you state, but maybe not. To be on the
safe side, use alfalfa as a top dressing and use decomposed organics
(compost) as a soil amendment in the planting hole.


I've added it to planting holes for 5 years without ill effect. The
recommended amount is 1 cup, tho I've added as much as a quart to a big
rose hole.

I agree that quick release fertilisers and manures will burn roots,
but Osmocote and other organic types (alfalfa included) are great
in small quantities. The idea that roses would become lazy around
the presence of nutrients is an absurd concept.


Well, the part about the laziness was just illustrative. I meant to
point out that an abundance of nutrients might slow down root
formation, because there is less stimulus to spread out and search
for 'food'. Or, explained differently, if there is an abundance of
nitrogen, the plant starts to grows stems and leaves before its root
system would be the size you want it to be.


Excessive nitrogen is never good, whether you have lots of roots or
few. Adequate nitrogen for the growth stage is the best.

Also, you don't need to add fertilizers to a plant that does not have
roots yet, because it cannot absorb the nutrients.


This is true, but those roots grow fairly quickly, much faster in early
fall.

Give it a year to get the root system going and then start
fertilizing for good growth and nice flowers.


IMO, waiting a year is too long. But I am entirely in favor of
fertilizing at about half of recommended rates.


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