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#1
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Let's Talk About Mulch
This topic usually comes up in the fall, but mulch is used for a number of reasons outside of winter protection, so I'm thinking about it now. Reasons for mulching, that I know of: To retain moisture (cut down on surface evaporation) To enrich the soil (as it breaks down, and why I do not consider rocks or rubber to be mulch) To protect from cold (as in mounding canes for the winter) To provide a barrier between extant fungus in the soil (mostly from fallen leaves that are infected) and new growth To make the bed more pleasing to the eye To reduce runoff of water for those of us who still handwater. My problems with mulch: No matter how thick the pine bark, leaves, or straw, I still have lots of weeds. And--it provides a perfect hiding place for voles. When it is deep enough they apparently burrow in and access the roots from *above* the plant. My decision to use oak leaves was one that meant I had thicker than usual mulch, this has meant dead roses. The holes are lined with two inches of permatil (scratchy composite "rock") but somehow the voles still eat the roots. What should I do next year? I cannot face doing anything this year, as I have too much going on. What ever is left alive in the spring will get the new treatment. For the weeds, I like Anne's newpaper idea, and actually used it a few years ago with good results. For the voles, I don't know. Maybe a layer of permatil on TOP too, just under the last layer of soil? Here is the real point of this post: If you mulch, what do you use and what do you like/dislike about it? If you don't, tell me the good points. I think I already know the bad, the worst being that bare ground is, to me, ugly. TIA |
#2
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Let's Talk About Mulch
"Shiva" wrote in message s.com... This topic usually comes up in the fall, but mulch is used for a number of reasons outside of winter protection, so I'm thinking about it now. I have about a four inch layer of pine bark "nuggets" on top of a layer of landscaping "weed barrier" paper...the end of the rose garden with the permeable plastic stuff is so overgrown with weeds I have despaired of ever getting it cleaned out again. I did lay soaker hose throughout, on top of the paper, under the mulch, so I can drip irrigate without spashbacks on the leaves. But my problem is with fertilizing...I have to rake back all the mulch, then peel back the paper, or unwrap it from around the base of the plants, scratch in the fertilizer, then lay it all back down again. That's the only real drawback I can think of, other than attracting unwanted pests. My mole/vole problem is under the landscaping paper, where they submarined in to destroy the roots of most of my underplanted perennials, and selectively chewed some of the roses' roots. I think they like the ice plants and columbine much better, as they were almost annihilated, whereas my roses suffered only sporadic attacks. That wold be ok if it were just a couple bushes, but I have several dozen in that bed alone, so I have been foliar feeding, and adding liquid fertilizer to a drip tank attached to the soaker irrigation (Monty's Joy Juice, kelp extract, seaweed extract, fish emulsion, an occaisional pinch of phosphorus, Miracle Gro plant and root booster, etc.) Scopata Fuori "Bad Cat!" |
#3
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Let's Talk About Mulch
Shiva wrote:
No matter how thick the pine bark, leaves, or straw, I still have lots of weeds. Don't we all. What kinds, annual or perennial? Do you overhead water? That's one weed culprit. For annual weeds, it's pretty simple. You have to weed to scrape the ground to kill existing weeds. Then you mulch. Then you only water the good plants, not the whole area. As weeds come up one at a time, your remove them, roots and all and never, ever let the seed heads ripen. Existing weed seeds can't germinate because they aren't exposed to light. New weed seeds germinate in the mulch and pull out easily. If you can't get them early, they'll establish by extending roots past the mulch into soil. Annual weeds can produce 100,000's of seeds in a single season, so the seed heads are the key. Most will ripen after they are cut, so removal of seed heads is the key. Paid gardeners ignore that fact. It's called job security. Weeds that propagate from roots (like bind weed) are a pita. They deserve handpainting with Roundup. As for the voles....I wonder if the mulch is the problem or if the voles are the problem. I have some kind of burrowing rodent. The rodent doesn't see to kill the roses, but it does divert precious irrigation water down its burrows, as in glug, glug and then a gusher 25 feet away. The mulch simply hides the openings to the burrows, disguising the problem -- which is the rodent. I'm looking for a solution that stops the rodent underground freeway with cages. |
#4
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Let's Talk About Mulch
In m Shiva wrote:
If you mulch, what do you use and what do you like/dislike about it? Shiva, I still use lucerne (alfalfa) hay. The roses adore it and they spring up basal growths from everywhere. I like the light colour too. Weed suppression is moderately good so long as you apply a thick layer. |
#5
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Let's Talk About Mulch
In article .com.au,
Daniel Hanna wrote: In m Shiva wrote: If you mulch, what do you use and what do you like/dislike about it? Shiva, I still use lucerne (alfalfa) hay. The roses adore it and they spring up basal growths from everywhere. I like the light colour too. Weed suppression is moderately good so long as you apply a thick layer. ew ee, the smell when it gets wet....But it's a great winter mulch. I put it on my veggie garden over the winter, and the soil is fabulous this year. |
#6
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Let's Talk About Mulch
Big admission here. *grin* I rarely, if ever, mulch. I don't like the
look of it. I also lean heavily towards the "cottage garden" look so you rarely see much dirt because of the plants. If I see dirt, I tend to throw down some alyssum seeds. Another benefit of having these overblown gardens is that it doesn't give much room for weeds to take hold whne all the available ground is taken by the flowers. Susan shsimko at duke dot edu |
#7
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Let's Talk About Mulch
I'm not a fan of mulch. It smells, attracts ants, and doesn't do a thing
for the weed population. Instead, I planted a bunch of lambs ears, thyme, mint, and oregano in the rose beds. It provides enough cover to hold moisture in and goes a long way towards keeping weeds out. As for the voles, I don't have the problem - most of my neighbors have dogs... "Shiva" wrote in message s.com... This topic usually comes up in the fall, but mulch is used for a number of reasons outside of winter protection, so I'm thinking about it now. Reasons for mulching, that I know of: To retain moisture (cut down on surface evaporation) To enrich the soil (as it breaks down, and why I do not consider rocks or rubber to be mulch) To protect from cold (as in mounding canes for the winter) To provide a barrier between extant fungus in the soil (mostly from fallen leaves that are infected) and new growth To make the bed more pleasing to the eye To reduce runoff of water for those of us who still handwater. My problems with mulch: No matter how thick the pine bark, leaves, or straw, I still have lots of weeds. And--it provides a perfect hiding place for voles. When it is deep enough they apparently burrow in and access the roots from *above* the plant. My decision to use oak leaves was one that meant I had thicker than usual mulch, this has meant dead roses. The holes are lined with two inches of permatil (scratchy composite "rock") but somehow the voles still eat the roots. What should I do next year? I cannot face doing anything this year, as I have too much going on. What ever is left alive in the spring will get the new treatment. For the weeds, I like Anne's newpaper idea, and actually used it a few years ago with good results. For the voles, I don't know. Maybe a layer of permatil on TOP too, just under the last layer of soil? Here is the real point of this post: If you mulch, what do you use and what do you like/dislike about it? If you don't, tell me the good points. I think I already know the bad, the worst being that bare ground is, to me, ugly. TIA |
#8
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Let's Talk About Mulch
Shiva, Mulch only really works the first year. Even then it has to put down by late winter to prevent weed germination. Once the seeds actually germinate no amount of mulch helps. Actually makes things worse cos you can't see then until they grow higher. Mulch does need to be regularly weeded. This is relatively easy cos you can easily pluch the plants out off the loose material. Real advantages of mulch for me is its ground insulating and moisture retention. Also looks nice. Rodents are always digging under the mulch but the neighbhorhood Siamese has taken a shine to scaring them. I've seen him patiently stalk voles from hole to hole. He can hear their ground vibrations appaently. -- Theo in Zone 5 Kansas City "Cass" wrote in message .. . Shiva wrote: No matter how thick the pine bark, leaves, or straw, I still have lots of weeds. Don't we all. What kinds, annual or perennial? Do you overhead water? That's one weed culprit. For annual weeds, it's pretty simple. You have to weed to scrape the ground to kill existing weeds. Then you mulch. Then you only water the good plants, not the whole area. As weeds come up one at a time, your remove them, roots and all and never, ever let the seed heads ripen. Existing weed seeds can't germinate because they aren't exposed to light. New weed seeds germinate in the mulch and pull out easily. If you can't get them early, they'll establish by extending roots past the mulch into soil. Annual weeds can produce 100,000's of seeds in a single season, so the seed heads are the key. Most will ripen after they are cut, so removal of seed heads is the key. Paid gardeners ignore that fact. It's called job security. Weeds that propagate from roots (like bind weed) are a pita. They deserve handpainting with Roundup. As for the voles....I wonder if the mulch is the problem or if the voles are the problem. I have some kind of burrowing rodent. The rodent doesn't see to kill the roses, but it does divert precious irrigation water down its burrows, as in glug, glug and then a gusher 25 feet away. The mulch simply hides the openings to the burrows, disguising the problem -- which is the rodent. I'm looking for a solution that stops the rodent underground freeway with cages. |
#9
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Let's Talk About Mulch
On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 01:14:14 -0400, "Scopata Fuori"
wrote: I have about a four inch layer of pine bark "nuggets" on top of a layer of landscaping "weed barrier" paper...the end of the rose garden with the permeable plastic stuff is so overgrown with weeds I have despaired of ever getting it cleaned out again. So the paper is not the same as the plastic, and you prefer the paper, which breaks down? Perhaps it works the same as newspaper? I did lay soaker hose throughout, on top of the paper, under the mulch, so I can drip irrigate without spashbacks on the leaves. But my problem is with fertilizing...I have to rake back all the mulch, then peel back the paper, or unwrap it from around the base of the plants, scratch in the fertilizer, then lay it all back down again. Can you rig your drip system to fertilize? I use both Mills and granular, so I also have to pull back the mulch. But I supplement with water soluable stuff like Miracle Gro for Roses. Of course, I water my roses from over head, but I use a strong fungicide, so I can. Besides the fact that in a places where it rains so much (at least this year!) it would be pretty crazy to try not to get water on my foliage when I water. It has rained at least every other day here since May 10. That's the only real drawback I can think of, other than attracting unwanted pests. My mole/vole problem is under the landscaping paper, where they submarined in to destroy the roots of most of my underplanted perennials, and selectively chewed some of the roses' roots. I think they like the ice plants and columbine much better, as they were almost annihilated, whereas my roses suffered only sporadic attacks. See now, this, inconjunction with what Susan Simko and some others said, is leading me to believe that in order to thwart the voles I must feed them something they like better than roses. In a bed with JUST thick, yummy mulch for hiding in and roses, what would you eat if you were a vole? But add some tender annuals or a perennial groundcover, and voila! Many choices for the rodent palette. [sp.] That wold be ok if it were just a couple bushes, but I have several dozen in that bed alone, so I have been foliar feeding, and adding liquid fertilizer to a drip tank attached to the soaker irrigation (Monty's Joy Juice, kelp extract, seaweed extract, fish emulsion, an occaisional pinch of phosphorus, Miracle Gro plant and root booster, etc.) Oops. I missed this part. So you DO feed water soluable, but also solid. I see. Scopata Fuori "Bad Cat!" |
#10
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Let's Talk About Mulch
On 13 Jul 2003 21:27:01 GMT, Daniel Hanna
wrote: In m Shiva wrote: If you mulch, what do you use and what do you like/dislike about it? Shiva, I still use lucerne (alfalfa) hay. The roses adore it and they spring up basal growths from everywhere. I like the light colour too. Weed suppression is moderately good so long as you apply a thick layer. Thanks for reminding me, Daniel! I like the look of darker mulch, myself. But I am convinced of the benefits of alfalfa for roses, just as you are. |
#11
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Let's Talk About Mulch
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 10:52:23 -0400, "Susan H. Simko"
wrote: Big admission here. *grin* I rarely, if ever, mulch. I don't like the look of it. I also lean heavily towards the "cottage garden" look so you rarely see much dirt because of the plants. If I see dirt, I tend to throw down some alyssum seeds. Another benefit of having these overblown gardens is that it doesn't give much room for weeds to take hold whne all the available ground is taken by the flowers. You've sold me. Now I just need a crew of magical gardening elves to appear and plant that alyssum. Or are you telling me I can just "throw down some seeds" and they will take? I actually have some packets from a couple of years ago that were intended for a bed that never happened because roses happened.. Susan shsimko at duke dot edu |
#12
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Let's Talk About Mulch
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:35:31 GMT, "kljcvlzkj"
wrote: I'm not a fan of mulch. It smells, attracts ants, and doesn't do a thing for the weed population. Instead, I planted a bunch of lambs ears, thyme, mint, and oregano in the rose beds. It provides enough cover to hold moisture in and goes a long way towards keeping weeds out. Sounds good, but what do you do about adding organic stuff to your beds? Roses need good, whole food, just as we do. This is my main reason for applying mulch. Retaining moisture and controlling weeds are secondary and tertiary. I cannot imagine what you used that "smelled" and attracted ants--pine bark smells lovely. What was it you were thinking of, just curious? As for the voles, I don't have the problem - most of my neighbors have dogs... Two words: leash law. I live in the city. "Shiva" wrote in message ws.com... This topic usually comes up in the fall, but mulch is used for a number of reasons outside of winter protection, so I'm thinking about it now. Reasons for mulching, that I know of: To retain moisture (cut down on surface evaporation) To enrich the soil (as it breaks down, and why I do not consider rocks or rubber to be mulch) To protect from cold (as in mounding canes for the winter) To provide a barrier between extant fungus in the soil (mostly from fallen leaves that are infected) and new growth To make the bed more pleasing to the eye To reduce runoff of water for those of us who still handwater. My problems with mulch: No matter how thick the pine bark, leaves, or straw, I still have lots of weeds. And--it provides a perfect hiding place for voles. When it is deep enough they apparently burrow in and access the roots from *above* the plant. My decision to use oak leaves was one that meant I had thicker than usual mulch, this has meant dead roses. The holes are lined with two inches of permatil (scratchy composite "rock") but somehow the voles still eat the roots. What should I do next year? I cannot face doing anything this year, as I have too much going on. What ever is left alive in the spring will get the new treatment. For the weeds, I like Anne's newpaper idea, and actually used it a few years ago with good results. For the voles, I don't know. Maybe a layer of permatil on TOP too, just under the last layer of soil? Here is the real point of this post: If you mulch, what do you use and what do you like/dislike about it? If you don't, tell me the good points. I think I already know the bad, the worst being that bare ground is, to me, ugly. TIA |
#13
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Let's Talk About Mulch
Shiva wrote:
You've sold me. Now I just need a crew of magical gardening elves to appear and plant that alyssum. Or are you telling me I can just "throw down some seeds" and they will take? I actually have some packets from a couple of years ago that were intended for a bed that never happened because roses happened.. I literally just sprinkled seeds. They are annuals (I think) but appear to reseed themselves every year so they behave, in my mind, like perenials. Fortunately, the alyssum seems to enjoy the same fertilizers that I put on the roses. Good thing or the alyssum would be a goner. *smile* Susan shsimko at duke dot edu |
#14
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Let's Talk About Mulch
I'm using the same type of "living mulch" , a mix of herbs and groundcovers
and it works very well. For the fertilization I'm putting organic matters at the foot of my roses and the groundcovers help themselves.... "kljcvlzkj" wrote in message et... I'm not a fan of mulch. It smells, attracts ants, and doesn't do a thing for the weed population. Instead, I planted a bunch of lambs ears, thyme, mint, and oregano in the rose beds. It provides enough cover to hold moisture in and goes a long way towards keeping weeds out. As for the voles, I don't have the problem - most of my neighbors have dogs... "Shiva" wrote in message s.com... This topic usually comes up in the fall, but mulch is used for a number of reasons outside of winter protection, so I'm thinking about it now. Reasons for mulching, that I know of: To retain moisture (cut down on surface evaporation) To enrich the soil (as it breaks down, and why I do not consider rocks or rubber to be mulch) To protect from cold (as in mounding canes for the winter) To provide a barrier between extant fungus in the soil (mostly from fallen leaves that are infected) and new growth To make the bed more pleasing to the eye To reduce runoff of water for those of us who still handwater. My problems with mulch: No matter how thick the pine bark, leaves, or straw, I still have lots of weeds. And--it provides a perfect hiding place for voles. When it is deep enough they apparently burrow in and access the roots from *above* the plant. My decision to use oak leaves was one that meant I had thicker than usual mulch, this has meant dead roses. The holes are lined with two inches of permatil (scratchy composite "rock") but somehow the voles still eat the roots. What should I do next year? I cannot face doing anything this year, as I have too much going on. What ever is left alive in the spring will get the new treatment. For the weeds, I like Anne's newpaper idea, and actually used it a few years ago with good results. For the voles, I don't know. Maybe a layer of permatil on TOP too, just under the last layer of soil? Here is the real point of this post: If you mulch, what do you use and what do you like/dislike about it? If you don't, tell me the good points. I think I already know the bad, the worst being that bare ground is, to me, ugly. TIA |
#15
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Let's Talk About Mulch
"Shiva" wrote in message So the paper is not the same as the plastic, and you prefer the paper, which breaks down? Perhaps it works the same as newspaper? When I refer to it as "paper," I guess that's not exactly correct...although that's what it was labeled as. It's very similar to paper, but it is a tough, fibrous material that has a half-life of approximately seven years, from what I have observed. The "plastic" I was referring to, was a stretchy, permeated material, that the weeds just grew right through. And it gets destroyed in the process. I had thought it would work better...it didn't. If I were a little more motivated this evening, I'd take a photograph of my "long" garden, to show the dramatic difference. The first fourteen feet or so are just choked with weeds, and the rest, with the "fibrous strand" paper has a stray here and there...the dividing line is unmistakeable, as far as weedproofing. It will have to be redone...all the mulch raked up, the remaining scraps of plastic mess removed, the weeds growing through the plastic mess ripped out, and everything re-laid, including the soakers. OK, now I am motivated....will go take a photo before the sun goes down any further. Scopata Fuori |
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