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#1
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
Yep. Old Blush, St. David's, Blush Noisette, Mutabilis,
and a few others, apparently on their own roots, for about $7 each at a WalMart StuporCenter in north Florida, fairly good size in 2-ish gallon pots. First they sell some own-root bare-root bushes, roots packed in wood waste in those nasty little plastic-wrapped cylinders, earlier in the year, and now this. Yeah, I bought a couple that I don't already have. Mixed emotions he it's good to see fine old varieties offered in the mass market, and apparently on their own roots, but this might do the small rose nurseries more harm than good: people will expect bigger plants for less money. Compared with the small but vigorous bushes I have gotten by mail-order from e.g. The Uncommon Rose and Chamblee's, these are giants (if a bit bedraggled from shipping and WalMart handling) -- and that's the problem. Mark., should have spotted the trend coming |
#2
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
Bought some two-gallon roses at Wal-Mart today, myself. I know that it is a big no-no to buy the
hacked-root, packed in sawdust ones but should these be okay, even though they are from Wal-Mart? Last week I bought a "Livin' Easy" two-gallon from there for $12.97 (from Weeks) and the ones I bought today ranged from $5.97 to $7.88. I bought: Tropicana Gold Glow Chrystler Imperial Eureka And one yellow and orange called "Novelty" that appears to be a description rather than the name of the plant. Any reason I should expect these sizable, apparently healthy plants to NOT do better than the ones I have on order from a nursery for 2-3 times the price? On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:10:44 -0500, "Mark. Gooley" wrote: Yep. Old Blush, St. David's, Blush Noisette, Mutabilis, and a few others, apparently on their own roots, for about $7 each at a WalMart StuporCenter in north Florida, fairly good size in 2-ish gallon pots. First they sell some own-root bare-root bushes, roots packed in wood waste in those nasty little plastic-wrapped cylinders, earlier in the year, and now this. Yeah, I bought a couple that I don't already have. Mixed emotions he it's good to see fine old varieties offered in the mass market, and apparently on their own roots, but this might do the small rose nurseries more harm than good: people will expect bigger plants for less money. Compared with the small but vigorous bushes I have gotten by mail-order from e.g. The Uncommon Rose and Chamblee's, these are giants (if a bit bedraggled from shipping and WalMart handling) -- and that's the problem. Mark., should have spotted the trend coming |
#3
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
"Darren Garrison" wrote: Bought some two-gallon roses at Wal-Mart today, myself. I know that it is a big no-no to buy the hacked-root, packed in sawdust ones but should these be okay, even though they are from Wal-Mart? Last week I bought a "Livin' Easy" two-gallon from there for $12.97 (from Weeks) and the ones I bought today ranged from $5.97 to $7.88. I bought: Tropicana You either like the color or you don't. Oldish garden standby (1960), good strong fragrance, looks like the hybrid tea it is. (I'm sick of the shape of HT flowers.) Gold Glow 1959, also smelly, also a hybrid tea in looks and fact. One parent was Sutter's Gold, which is a tough oldish thing, once ubiquitous. Beales has a story about seeing a huge bush of Sutter's Gold, untended, in Australia. Chrysler Imperial Reliable oldish (1952) standard red garden standby. Also nicely smelly; I'm told it was used to help market the car of the same name. Said to be prone to powdery mildew. Eureka Dunno. There's a recent (2002) Kordes rose of that name. Yellow, not very smelly, but Kordes roses tend to be tough as nails. Floribunda, probably won't grow large. And one yellow and orange called "Novelty" that appears to be a description rather than the name of the plant. Could be. I can't find anything on it. Any reason I should expect these sizable, apparently healthy plants to NOT do better than the ones I have on order from a nursery for 2-3 times the price? Well, they're probably grafted plants, probably on "Dr. Huey" rootstock. Which rootstock may well be okay for your area. The nursery plants you have on order are probably grafted onto Dr. Huey as well, unless it's a nursery specializing in own-root roses (as opposed to, say, Wayside Gardens; heck, some varieties shipped by Jackson and Perkins mail-order these days are own-root), or it's in Florida and uses R. fortuniana as a rootstock (it tolerates the climate and the nematodes. (What boggled my mind and led me to my original post in this thread was the classic old varieties that Wal-Mart was offering, and that they seemed to be on their own roots [I saw no sign of a graft union.]) They should be okay: nothing way special, but okay value for money, and Tropicana and Chrysler Imperial have stood the test of time. I prefer own-root roses (just yanked a sucker off the base of my grafted Blanc Double de Coubert: time to take cuttings and root them, if not long overdue) but Heaven knows that the cheapness of mass-produced grafted ones has led me to buy more than my share of those. Mark. |
#4
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
Darren Garrison asks:
...Any reason I should expect these sizable, apparently healthy plants to NOT do better than the ones I have on order from a nursery for 2-3 times the price? Yes. The old adage "you get what you pay for" applies. First off, you're not getting the same grade on grafted or budded roses. You're getting grade 1 1/2 (sometimes generously applied,) which means "we cannot sell this rose ourselves as grade 1 - let's ship it to Wal-Mart and let them sell it." They might even be selling roses from a big name nursery everyone recognizes and trusts, but only because that nursery doesn't want to sell the inferior grade directly. Grade 1 1/2 isn't a poor rose, but it's not as healthy and vigorous as a grade 1. There's also the lack of any responsibility on the part of the seller. Wal-Mart is not concerned about its reputation when it sells you a rose. There's no guarantee. If your rose has been mislabeled, or you discover mosaic patterns on the leaves, you're pretty much stuck with what you've bought. You *might* be able to return the rose if it's in the original pot with all the labels attached, you have the receipt and too much time hasn't passed. Not a very likely set of circumstances. You should also go back a week or so after these chain stores first receive their roses in spring and notice the rampant spread of disease. They don't hire people who know how to care for roses. They simply overhead water them every day and the roses are usually crammed together, creating a most welcoming environment for fungal spores. I'd almost guarantee your rose came home with a fungal disease, even if you didn't see symptoms when it was purchased. When you pay a little more to buy roses directly from a reputable nursery, you get grade 1. Most guarantee the rose to be virus-free. They manage their plants to keep them free of pests and disease. If your rose succumbs the first season, most will replace it at no cost to you and they will not require return. If you are still not satisfied, you have recourse in the form of public forums (i.e. Garden Watchdog.) These places care about their reputations. Not too many people will stop shopping at Wal-Mart because your Tropicana turned out to be Brilliant Pink Iceberg and Wal-Mart knows this. Of course, you may luck out and your rose will be fine. It's a gamble. That rose may only be $6.00 or $7.00, but you have to dig the hole, plant it, mulch it, feed it, water it, etc. You've got more than just a few bucks invested in it's success. Mike |
#5
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
Darren Garrison asks:
...Any reason I should expect these sizable, apparently healthy plants to NOT do better than the ones I have on order from a nursery for 2-3 times the price? Yes. The old adage "you get what you pay for" applies. First off, you're not getting the same grade on grafted or budded roses. You're getting grade 1 1/2 (sometimes generously applied,) which means "we cannot sell this rose ourselves as grade 1 - let's ship it to Wal-Mart and let them sell it." They might even be selling roses from a big name nursery everyone recognizes and trusts, but only because that nursery doesn't want to sell the inferior grade directly. Grade 1 1/2 isn't a poor rose, but it's not as healthy and vigorous as a grade 1. There's also the lack of any responsibility on the part of the seller. Wal-Mart is not concerned about its reputation when it sells you a rose. There's no guarantee. If your rose has been mislabeled, or you discover mosaic patterns on the leaves, you're pretty much stuck with what you've bought. You *might* be able to return the rose if it's in the original pot with all the labels attached, you have the receipt and too much time hasn't passed. Not a very likely set of circumstances. You should also go back a week or so after these chain stores first receive their roses in spring and notice the rampant spread of disease. They don't hire people who know how to care for roses. They simply overhead water them every day and the roses are usually crammed together, creating a most welcoming environment for fungal spores. I'd almost guarantee your rose came home with a fungal disease, even if you didn't see symptoms when it was purchased. When you pay a little more to buy roses directly from a reputable nursery, you get grade 1. Most guarantee the rose to be virus-free. They manage their plants to keep them free of pests and disease. If your rose succumbs the first season, most will replace it at no cost to you and they will not require return. If you are still not satisfied, you have recourse in the form of public forums (i.e. Garden Watchdog.) These places care about their reputations. Not too many people will stop shopping at Wal-Mart because your Tropicana turned out to be Brilliant Pink Iceberg and Wal-Mart knows this. Of course, you may luck out and your rose will be fine. It's a gamble. That rose may only be $6.00 or $7.00, but you have to dig the hole, plant it, mulch it, feed it, water it, etc. You've got more than just a few bucks invested in it's success. Mike |
#6
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
I bought two potted roses from Wally World last year late at a
discount price (Climbing America and Climbing Joseph's Coat), both did real well. I bought one of the "frowned upon bare root in saw dust and plastic bag" (Sally Holmes) mid March this year. It was "own root". I live in zone 7/8 and ammended my clayish soil as usual with compost and organic matter, planted, mulched , fertilized with timed released fertilizer, and watered. It has really taken off and has buds. Haven't seen any of the potted own root roses yet here in Mississippi. Hamp Darren Garrison wrote in message . .. Bought some two-gallon roses at Wal-Mart today, myself. I know that it is a big no-no to buy the hacked-root, packed in sawdust ones but should these be okay, even though they are from Wal-Mart? Last week I bought a "Livin' Easy" two-gallon from there for $12.97 (from Weeks) and the ones I bought today ranged from $5.97 to $7.88. I bought: Tropicana Gold Glow Chrystler Imperial Eureka And one yellow and orange called "Novelty" that appears to be a description rather than the name of the plant. Any reason I should expect these sizable, apparently healthy plants to NOT do better than the ones I have on order from a nursery for 2-3 times the price? On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:10:44 -0500, "Mark. Gooley" wrote: Yep. Old Blush, St. David's, Blush Noisette, Mutabilis, and a few others, apparently on their own roots, for about $7 each at a WalMart StuporCenter in north Florida, fairly good size in 2-ish gallon pots. First they sell some own-root bare-root bushes, roots packed in wood waste in those nasty little plastic-wrapped cylinders, earlier in the year, and now this. Yeah, I bought a couple that I don't already have. Mixed emotions he it's good to see fine old varieties offered in the mass market, and apparently on their own roots, but this might do the small rose nurseries more harm than good: people will expect bigger plants for less money. Compared with the small but vigorous bushes I have gotten by mail-order from e.g. The Uncommon Rose and Chamblee's, these are giants (if a bit bedraggled from shipping and WalMart handling) -- and that's the problem. Mark., should have spotted the trend coming |
#7
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
"Mark. Gooley" wrote in message ...
Yep. Old Blush, St. David's, Blush Noisette, Mutabilis, and a few others, apparently on their own roots, for about $7 each at a WalMart StuporCenter in north Florida, fairly good size in 2-ish gallon pots. First they sell some own-root bare-root bushes, roots packed in wood waste in those nasty little plastic-wrapped cylinders, earlier in the year, and now this. Yeah, I bought a couple that I don't already have. Mixed emotions he it's good to see fine old varieties offered in the mass market, and apparently on their own roots, but this might do the small rose nurseries more harm than good: people will expect bigger plants for less money. Compared with the small but vigorous bushes I have gotten by mail-order from e.g. The Uncommon Rose and Chamblee's, these are giants (if a bit bedraggled from shipping and WalMart handling) -- and that's the problem. Mark., should have spotted the trend coming Obviously Mike doesn't work at Walmart. Wonder which Rose Nursery he's affliatedwith that's getting hurt by the super centers. I try not to be prejudiced against or for any seller. I want a decent product at a fair price. Often I get this from online sources such as Chamblees or Antique Rose Imporium and local Nurserys but I'm not opposed to purchasing anything from any source if I want. As to Walmart's return policy, it's far better than any nursery or online retailer I've dealt with. They will give a replacement or refund with no questions. Hamp |
#8
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
"Darren Garrison" wrote in message ... Bought some two-gallon roses at Wal-Mart today, myself. I know that it is a big no-no to buy the hacked-root, packed in sawdust ones but should these be okay, even though they are from Wal-Mart? Last week I bought a "Livin' Easy" two-gallon from there for $12.97 (from Weeks) and the ones I bought today ranged from $5.97 to $7.88. I bought: Tropicana Gold Glow Chrystler Imperial Eureka And one yellow and orange called "Novelty" that appears to be a description rather than the name of the plant. Any reason I should expect these sizable, apparently healthy plants to NOT do better than the ones I have on order from a nursery for 2-3 times the price? Wally World buys it's low cost crap from the cheap Texas growers who have an epidemic of Rose Mosaic Virus. THey send the grade 1 1/2 or 2 plants to canners who pot up the leftover roses that won't even make it to waxed hackroot status at the discount Marts. Good thing roses are resilient creatures that bounce back from a lot of abuse. Because once unloaded off the truck, they'll receive no tender loving care for sure. They're likely to be inside the shade structure and drowned while the hosta sit in full sun and go dry or suffer any number of non creative moronic plant abuse. Occasionally you can find a gem of a rose embedded in the manure, but it takes a knowledgable eye and a lot of searching. There has been a heartening trend of seeing antique roses ownroot at the Orange Borg and others, but they too suffer the tortures of the minimum wage generation ADD attendants. Sunflower MS 7b |
#9
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
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#11
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
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#12
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
Rose, I, in no way intended to ruffle the feathers of anyone. I
obviously came across wrong and for that I appologize. The point I was making was that some of us have more time than money and have to shop the culls (inferior products) at the discount centers. An example is that my first rose came from Walmart, a left over from the previous year in a 4 inch pot. It was in March and the rose among other plants was on a discount table marked $1.oo. It was trying to bud out and roots were coming out everywhere, inferior product yes but cheap. I didn't then or now know what the rose was. I planted it in the wrong spot (only about 4 hours of morning sun) and it flourished. I've propogated countless plants from this one and it is still in the same spot and has bloomed it's little head off. Except for a little spring black spot it has never had any problems with disease or pests. I've since gotten about 35 roses, some from discount stores, some from reputable nurserys and some from mail order suppliers. Perhaps the discount store varieties are inferior and need a little extra TLC but what the heck, I do have more time than money. By the way, today I purchased two from Home Depot, Compte de Chambard and Reine des Violettes for $6.95 each, potted and budded ready to bloom, good root structure. As I tried to say unsuccessfully before, I have had success with discount store products regardless of what anyone says. Hamp (rose_luver) wrote in message . com... Mike wrote in message .. . On 28 Mar 2004, (Hamp) responded: Obviously Mike doesn't work at Walmart. Wonder which Rose Nursery he's affliated with that's getting hurt by the super centers. No, I don't work at Wal-Mart. Do you? I am not affiliated with any rose nursery. I try not to be prejudiced against or for any seller. If you are not "prejudiced" against a seller that consistently sells inferior product, than you are an idiot. As to Walmart's return policy, it's far better than any nursery or online retailer I've dealt with. They will give a replacement or refund with no questions. Hamp Wal-Mart will not give a refund or replacement without a receipt and the original product being returned, as stated in my post. They will definitely not refund or replace a rose that's been in the ground for six months under any circumstances, unlike most rose vendors, such as the two you mentioned, who guarantee their roses throughout the first growing season and do not require a receipt or return for refund or replacement. As I said at the beginning of my original post - you get what you pay for. That was the whole point. Mike As my mother once said "children, children, stop that before someone gets hurt! Each to his own opinion which you both have strongly but differently. Differing opinions are great but let's try not to impose ours on others, this is called arrogance. And Mike, please don't call anyone an "idiot". Rose |
#13
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
(Hamp) wrote in message . com...
"Mark. Gooley" wrote in message ... Yep. Old Blush, St. David's, Blush Noisette, Mutabilis, and a few others, apparently on their own roots, for about $7 each at a WalMart StuporCenter in north Florida, fairly good size in 2-ish gallon pots. First they sell some own-root bare-root bushes, roots packed in wood waste in those nasty little plastic-wrapped cylinders, earlier in the year, and now this. Yeah, I bought a couple that I don't already have. Mixed emotions he it's good to see fine old varieties offered in the mass market, and apparently on their own roots, but this might do the small rose nurseries more harm than good: people will expect bigger plants for less money. Compared with the small but vigorous bushes I have gotten by mail-order from e.g. The Uncommon Rose and Chamblee's, these are giants (if a bit bedraggled from shipping and WalMart handling) -- and that's the problem. Mark., should have spotted the trend coming Obviously Mike doesn't work at Walmart. Wonder which Rose Nursery he's affliatedwith that's getting hurt by the super centers. I try not to be prejudiced against or for any seller. I want a decent product at a fair price. Often I get this from online sources such as Chamblees or Antique Rose Imporium and local Nurserys but I'm not opposed to purchasing anything from any source if I want. As to Walmart's return policy, it's far better than any nursery or online retailer I've dealt with. They will give a replacement or refund with no questions. Hamp Oh, sure, criticizing Walmart in favor of other nurseries means he works for a plant nursery. Not all who dislike Walmart are paid to dislike it. Personally, I've gotten plants there that have died almost immediately when put in sun, becuase they had adjusted to so much shade. Thier conditions aren't good, and thier plants may well die if not adjusted right. - theoneflasehaddock |
#14
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
(rose_luver) wrote in message . com...
Mike wrote in message .. . On 28 Mar 2004, (Hamp) responded: Obviously Mike doesn't work at Walmart. Wonder which Rose Nursery he's affliated with that's getting hurt by the super centers. No, I don't work at Wal-Mart. Do you? I am not affiliated with any rose nursery. I try not to be prejudiced against or for any seller. If you are not "prejudiced" against a seller that consistently sells inferior product, than you are an idiot. As to Walmart's return policy, it's far better than any nursery or online retailer I've dealt with. They will give a replacement or refund with no questions. Hamp Wal-Mart will not give a refund or replacement without a receipt and the original product being returned, as stated in my post. They will definitely not refund or replace a rose that's been in the ground for six months under any circumstances, unlike most rose vendors, such as the two you mentioned, who guarantee their roses throughout the first growing season and do not require a receipt or return for refund or replacement. As I said at the beginning of my original post - you get what you pay for. That was the whole point. Mike As my mother once said "children, children, stop that before someone gets hurt! Each to his own opinion which you both have strongly but differently. Differing opinions are great but let's try not to impose ours on others, this is called arrogance. And Mike, please don't call anyone an "idiot". Rose Yeah, each to their own opinions - so why the **** are you whining at people for posting their, you hypocritical little whiny bitch? - theoneflasehaddock |
#15
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Antique roses at...WalMart?
theoneflasehaddock:
I think your reply said a whole lot more about you than anything anyone ever thought. ben theoneflasehaddock wrote: (rose_luver) wrote in message . com... Mike wrote in message .. . On 28 Mar 2004, (Hamp) responded: Obviously Mike doesn't work at Walmart. Wonder which Rose Nursery he's affliated with that's getting hurt by the super centers. No, I don't work at Wal-Mart. Do you? I am not affiliated with any rose nursery. I try not to be prejudiced against or for any seller. If you are not "prejudiced" against a seller that consistently sells inferior product, than you are an idiot. As to Walmart's return policy, it's far better than any nursery or online retailer I've dealt with. They will give a replacement or refund with no questions. Hamp Wal-Mart will not give a refund or replacement without a receipt and the original product being returned, as stated in my post. They will definitely not refund or replace a rose that's been in the ground for six months under any circumstances, unlike most rose vendors, such as the two you mentioned, who guarantee their roses throughout the first growing season and do not require a receipt or return for refund or replacement. As I said at the beginning of my original post - you get what you pay for. That was the whole point. Mike As my mother once said "children, children, stop that before someone gets hurt! Each to his own opinion which you both have strongly but differently. Differing opinions are great but let's try not to impose ours on others, this is called arrogance. And Mike, please don't call anyone an "idiot". Rose Yeah, each to their own opinions - so why the **** are you whining at people for posting their, you hypocritical little whiny bitch? - theoneflasehaddock |
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