We bought an old house on a big block about 2 years ago, and along
with it, inherited an old and neglected English-country-style garden.
Our dear departed gardener (rest her soul) must have been very keen on
her roses, because we've got plenty of 'em. No idea what sorts they
are.

I, on the other hand, am a reluctant gardener. We're keeping most of
what we've been able to salvage of the old gardens (the house was
rented for several years between owner-occupiers), because it's easier
than starting from scratch. We have no idea what most of our plants
are (my mother-in-law often exclaims with delight when she identifies
another exotic), but we're starting to get some idea what appears at
what times of year...among the roses. And among the jonquils, grape
hyaciths and other assorted winter bulbs.

I've seen some references in here to climatic zones. I've got no idea
about that. We're in cold'n'wet-ville, Australia (in late winter at
the moment). It's a very English temperate winter climate - very
occasional sleet, fairly regular frost, hail, and continuous drizzle
that doesn't dry out for 6 months because it's so damp. Most winter
days hover between 0 and 10 degrees C (35-50F). Contrast with summers,
which are hot and dry - up to and occasionally over 40dgC (105F).

Anyway, to the roses.

I've worked out that roses are pretty much indestructible when they're
established. Pruning just makes 'em angry. So, early this winter, I
gave them all a good hacking, back well into old wood - most of them
got very leggy in the years since our dear gardener left them to their
own devices. They're all sprouting furiously now (to teach me a
lesson).

My main concern is a rectangular wire-frame arbor over the path to our
front door. On one side is a very old, extremely healthy rose (about
3" diameter at the base), which grows through, around and over the top
of the arch, sending out feral branches to snag passers-by. It also
provides innumerable red blooms all spring and summer; as many as we
care to cut and then some.

On the other side of the arch is a younger rose, somewhat sickly by
comparison. Maybe 1" diameter at the base. At best, it gives basic
coverage up its own side of the arbor. Also quite prolific with pink
blooms, but there's less of it to bloom. It seems to be quite a
healthy plant, but no match for its neighbour.

Over time, I'd like to balance the two plants better. The first year
we were here, I pruned the big plant quite severely, and it
flourished. It came back bigger and healthier than ever.

This year I tried to leave the big plant to go dormant (do roses do
that?), and pruned the smaller one quite severely to encourage it.
It's now shooting like a champion.

This afternoon I lost my resolve, and chopped the long sprawling
branches off the big plant. I guess I'm hoping that it will now be too
late in the season for it to muster the energy to shoot vigorously
when spring arrives. I expect to be shown wrong.

What do you, the experts, reckon? What should I be pruning, at what
time of year? Can I keep the big plant pruned without encouraging it
to throw out more and more fresh growth? How do I keep these crazy
prickle-bushes under control?

I'd prefer not to spray anything (I'm sure we have all manner of
spots, funguses and bugs, but they don't seem to bother the plants),
and I have no intention of spending any more than the bare minimum of
time tending the garden...

Thanks,

fs

On 10 Aug 2004 01:42:37 -0700, (Fakhina Sohl)
wrote:

I've worked out that roses are pretty much indestructible when they're
established. Pruning just makes 'em angry. So, early this winter, I
gave them all a good hacking, back well into old wood - most of them
got very leggy in the years since our dear gardener left them to their
own devices. They're all sprouting furiously now (to teach me a
lesson).

See, it's a matter of perception. Pruning makes *you* angry. Pruning
makes roses *happy*. Once you understand this, you'll be better off,
if not your arms, legs, neck, etc.

Yes, most roses do go dormant in the winter, and winter is normally
the best time to prune. I'm not sure what your frost dates are, but
try to prune after the last hard frost, so you can see what all the
dieback will be, but before the new shoots come out. You can take out
deadwood or rubbing limbs anytime. If you're starting from a
long-neglected rose garden, pruning all of them down to six inches
above the ground might be a good idea.

Most modern roses bloom on new wood that they grow out every year.
Some old roses bloom on wood that's been out for a year, so if you
take out all the old wood they might not bloom that summer.

Prune your slow-growing rose too. Pruning it might wake it up to grow
more.

If after a year or two your large-growing rose is still way too big
there, think about moving it or replacing it. Trying to force a big
rose to be small is just going to frusterate both of you.

-- Patrick

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On 10 Aug 2004 01:42:37 -0700, (Fakhina Sohl)
wrote:

Pruning just makes 'em angry. So, early this winter, I
gave them all a good hacking, back well into old wood ...
They're all sprouting furiously now (to teach me a
lesson).

See, it's a matter of perception. Pruning makes *you* angry.

Oh no, not at all. After having my clothes snagged once too many, from
trying to walk past an enthusiastic rose bush, there's not many things
more satisfying than attacking it with the secateurs. Ha! That will
teach it!

NB - read most of my ramblings with an implied ;-) emoticon. I pruned
the roses back this winter to encourage them. I'm just attributing
their (expected and desired) response to malice and revenge, because
they're inherently evil plants.

As my wife says, roses are like cats. They're beautiful, they're nice
to have around, and they've got claws to shred you with if you don't
treat them nicely. Or even if you do treat them nicely. I have a
love-hate relationship with our cat, too :-)

Pruning makes roses *happy*. Once you understand this,
you'll be better off, if not your arms, legs, neck, etc.

Indeed. I found that out the first time I pruned my healthy
arbor-climbing rose, in an attempt to get it back in control. That's
why I ask - is there any way to stunt the growth of my rose without
making it happy and enthusiastic (and vengeful - evil plant ;-)),
which is counterproductive to my purposes?

Thanks for the answers so far.

fs

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On 10 Aug 2004 01:42:37 -0700, (Fakhina Sohl)
wrote:

Pruning just makes 'em angry. So, early this winter, I
gave them all a good hacking, back well into old wood ...
They're all sprouting furiously now (to teach me a
lesson).

See, it's a matter of perception. Pruning makes *you* angry.

Oh no, not at all. After having my clothes snagged once too many, from
trying to walk past an enthusiastic rose bush, there's not many things
more satisfying than attacking it with the secateurs. Ha! That will
teach it!

NB - read most of my ramblings with an implied ;-) emoticon. I pruned
the roses back this winter to encourage them. I'm just attributing
their (expected and desired) response to malice and revenge, because
they're inherently evil plants.

As my wife says, roses are like cats. They're beautiful, they're nice
to have around, and they've got claws to shred you with if you don't
treat them nicely. Or even if you do treat them nicely. I have a
love-hate relationship with our cat, too :-)

Pruning makes roses *happy*. Once you understand this,
you'll be better off, if not your arms, legs, neck, etc.

Indeed. I found that out the first time I pruned my healthy
arbor-climbing rose, in an attempt to get it back in control. That's
why I ask - is there any way to stunt the growth of my rose without
making it happy and enthusiastic (and vengeful - evil plant ;-)),
which is counterproductive to my purposes?

Thanks for the answers so far.

fs

On 10 Aug 2004 21:08:26 -0700, (Fakhina Sohl)
wrote:

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On 10 Aug 2004 01:42:37 -0700, (Fakhina Sohl)
wrote:

Pruning just makes 'em angry. So, early this winter, I
gave them all a good hacking, back well into old wood ...
They're all sprouting furiously now (to teach me a
lesson).

See, it's a matter of perception. Pruning makes *you* angry.

Oh no, not at all. After having my clothes snagged once too many, from
trying to walk past an enthusiastic rose bush, there's not many things
more satisfying than attacking it with the secateurs. Ha! That will
teach it!

NB - read most of my ramblings with an implied ;-) emoticon.

Yes, read mine that way too. Especially when given such a good
opening.

On 10 Aug 2004 21:08:26 -0700, (Fakhina Sohl)
wrote:

Pruning makes roses *happy*. Once you understand this,
you'll be better off, if not your arms, legs, neck, etc.

Indeed. I found that out the first time I pruned my healthy
arbor-climbing rose, in an attempt to get it back in control. That's
why I ask - is there any way to stunt the growth of my rose without
making it happy and enthusiastic (and vengeful - evil plant ;-)),
which is counterproductive to my purposes?

For such a rose, probably the best thing is to take some hedge
trimmers or chain saw and shape it to your own wishes. Just do it
whenever it starts getting uppity.

On 10 Aug 2004 21:08:26 -0700, (Fakhina Sohl)
wrote:

Pruning makes roses *happy*. Once you understand this,
you'll be better off, if not your arms, legs, neck, etc.

Indeed. I found that out the first time I pruned my healthy
arbor-climbing rose, in an attempt to get it back in control. That's
why I ask - is there any way to stunt the growth of my rose without
making it happy and enthusiastic (and vengeful - evil plant ;-)),
which is counterproductive to my purposes?

For such a rose, probably the best thing is to take some hedge
trimmers or chain saw and shape it to your own wishes. Just do it
whenever it starts getting uppity.

A few more ideas on pruning can be found in the article on Pruning Roses, on
Bexrose web site at:- http://home.btconnect.com/cadoss/bexrose

Enjoy

Martin Double
Bexrose - Webmaster

Email:
Web Site: http://home.btconnect.com/cadoss/bexrose

"Patrick Scheible" wrote in message
...
Yes, most roses do go dormant in the winter, and winter is normally
the best time to prune. I'm not sure what your frost dates are, but
try to prune after the last hard frost, so you can see what all the
dieback will be, but before the new shoots come out.

A few more ideas on pruning can be found in the article on Pruning Roses, on
Bexrose web site at:- http://home.btconnect.com/cadoss/bexrose

Enjoy

Martin Double
Bexrose - Webmaster

Email:
Web Site: http://home.btconnect.com/cadoss/bexrose

"Patrick Scheible" wrote in message
...
Yes, most roses do go dormant in the winter, and winter is normally
the best time to prune. I'm not sure what your frost dates are, but
try to prune after the last hard frost, so you can see what all the
dieback will be, but before the new shoots come out.