"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:13:35 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:
----------insert---------------
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:15:09 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

After a perfect year for wild oats in western Oklahoma
Round Up Ready wheat would find a place if it could be sold.
Depending on custom cutter and bigger combines have scattered
wild oats every where and normal cultural practices in wheat
won't control them.

But you have Puma available to deal with wild oats in the growing
crop, haven't you?
-----------insert----------------

I checked with 3 chemical dealers
in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very
dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept
the
liability of spraying it.

Pity you didn't ask on which evidence they base their concerns.

There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable
how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the
application.

snip

So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of
evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very
dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are
fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim.

If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...

So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of
evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very
dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are
fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim.

If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to.

You can think what you damn well please.

the problem is Gordon, you have had to put your money where your mouth is,
torsten is merely regurgitating things he has read and isn't a penny worse
off whichever way it goes

Jim Webster

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:45:48 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:58:17 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is
unpredictable
how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after
the
application.

snip

So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of
evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very
dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are
fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim.

I think I will trust Gordon's actual experience.

Bwahahahaha. When Gordon was asked about Puma two weeks ago
he thought it was a wheat variety.

I will still trust his practical experience

Bwahahaha. Gordon has no practical experience with Puma.

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 02:25:42 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 04:13:35 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:
----------insert---------------
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:15:09 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

After a perfect year for wild oats in western Oklahoma
Round Up Ready wheat would find a place if it could be sold.
Depending on custom cutter and bigger combines have scattered
wild oats every where and normal cultural practices in wheat
won't control them.

But you have Puma available to deal with wild oats in the growing
crop, haven't you?
-----------insert----------------

I checked with 3 chemical dealers
in southwest Oklahoma. The sandy soil and high pH clays make it very
dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats. They won't accept
the
liability of spraying it.

Pity you didn't ask on which evidence they base their concerns.

There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is unpredictable
how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after the
application.

snip

So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of
evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very
dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are
fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim.

If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Well, so far I seem to have thought right. Everything indicates that
you do no have evidence to support the claim that "the sandy soil and
high pH clays make it very dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild
oats." If you had evidence, you would have come up with it by now. You
have every reason to do so, and none not to.

But further, assuming you have indeed talked with your friend and what
is claimed there is substantially what he told you about Puma (and
what you believe), I think there's likely to have been confusion with
another herbicide (a sulfonylurea?) in your conversation. You could
both be excused, since Puma for wild oat control in wheat has only
recently become available in Oklahoma.

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.




Dean

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:45:48 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:58:17 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:13:47 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

There is almost always some damage to the wheat and it is
unpredictable
how bad the damage will be depending on soil type and weather after
the
application.

snip

So many words, and yet you couldn't spare any to present a shed of
evidence, that "the sandy soil and high pH clays make it very
dangerous to use Puma at rates to kill wild oats." I think you are
fibbing, you don't have evidence to support that claim.

I think I will trust Gordon's actual experience.

Bwahahahaha. When Gordon was asked about Puma two weeks ago
he thought it was a wheat variety.

I will still trust his practical experience

Bwahahaha. Gordon has no practical experience with Puma.

Thank you for snipping what I wrote without acknowledging that you did so.
You really are struggling Torsten.

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to
has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the
mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to
use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals
in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with
crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've
sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

In the States, wild oat has developed resistance to the ACCase inhibitor
class of herbicides which Puma is a member. Please see
http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/ag/herbres.html. for more information Dean,
have you seen any wild oats that are resistant to Puma in your fields?
Thanks.

Dave

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

One thing that has interested me, apparently in the EU we are supposed to
grow subsidy free wheat and compete on a world market. Now I'm no where near
an expert on arable, I do rear cattle and twitch whenever the someone puts
grass brown side up. But we have had some interesting swapping of figures on
the cattle side looking at comparative costs, and I wondered just how much
it costs you gentlemen to actually grow wheat.
Jim Webster

"David Kendra" wrote in message
news:W3HNa.44123$926.4861@sccrnsc03...

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to
has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of
grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money
in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the
mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did
business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to
use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals
in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to
the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you
sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here
in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with
crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've
sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

In the States, wild oat has developed resistance to the ACCase inhibitor
class of herbicides which Puma is a member. Please see
http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/ag/herbres.html. for more information Dean,
have you seen any wild oats that are resistant to Puma in your fields?
Thanks.

Dave

Dave,

There has been some in the past, more so with products such as
trifurallin(different chemistry). With proper rotations on different groups
of pesticides, it's become mute. (ex.- changing from a group 1 chemistry
such as Puma to a group 2 chemistry such as Sundance.) Farmers aren't as
dependent on Group 1 chemistry as they once were. I'm not sure if you use
the same charts for rotating chemicals as we do, but in case you don't,
hopefully this link will work for you. Have a look.

http://www.westcoag.com/HerbicideGro...ups%202003.pdf



Dean

David,
I must add that even though this has virtually eliminated
resistance, using SU's has really made farmers watch much closer what kind
of crops they are rotating. They can hold much longer in the soil,
especially on knolls, where organic matter is poor.





Dean















"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"David Kendra" wrote in message
news:W3HNa.44123$926.4861@sccrnsc03...

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked
to
has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of
grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him
money
in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to
the
mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did
business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous
to
use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not
to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost
your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on
cereals
in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to
the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield
losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you
sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can
be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto
here
in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with
crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've
sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

In the States, wild oat has developed resistance to the ACCase inhibitor
class of herbicides which Puma is a member. Please see
http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/ag/herbres.html. for more information
Dean,
have you seen any wild oats that are resistant to Puma in your fields?
Thanks.

Dave

Dave,

There has been some in the past, more so with products such as
trifurallin(different chemistry). With proper rotations on different
groups
of pesticides, it's become mute. (ex.- changing from a group 1 chemistry
such as Puma to a group 2 chemistry such as Sundance.) Farmers aren't as
dependent on Group 1 chemistry as they once were. I'm not sure if you use
the same charts for rotating chemicals as we do, but in case you don't,
hopefully this link will work for you. Have a look.

http://www.westcoag.com/HerbicideGro...ups%202003.pdf



Dean

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to
has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the
mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to
use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals
in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with
crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've
sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

Dean,

All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much. Since
he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it if
he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and
Puma would make him money on every turn of the card.

He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the
full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure dockage
and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them as
customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op is
going broke.

High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days before
harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard of.
Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly common
time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the two
driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance of
the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close to
80% if you add the first two weeks of April.

There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long
hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is not
because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats. I
know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to slow
things down.

Gordon

"David Kendra" wrote in message
news:W3HNa.44123$926.4861@sccrnsc03...

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to
has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of
grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money
in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the
mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did
business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to
use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals
in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to
the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you
sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here
in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with
crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've
sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

In the States, wild oat has developed resistance to the ACCase inhibitor
class of herbicides which Puma is a member. Please see
http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/ag/herbres.html. for more information Dean,
have you seen any wild oats that are resistant to Puma in your fields?
Thanks.

We wouldn't have developed any chemical resistance in wild oats. They are
just becoming a really bad problem and we haven't used much herbicide on
them.

Gordon

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 02:07:02 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long
hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year.

If it's fenoxaprop in the formulation Puma, you are thinking of, it
was registered for wild oats in wheat in Texas/Oklahoma only last
year. However, for the same application, and with the same active
ingredient, you have had e.g. Silverado since the mid nineties.

There is usually some reason that a chemical has been cleared
and around for that long, namely that it has been found to be
safe and useful for the stated purpose.

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f067907_4@newsfeed...

"Dean Ronn" @home wrote in message
...

"Gordon Couger" wrote in message
news:3f052be8_3@newsfeed...


If they could kill wild oats they would. One of the people I talked to
has
over 12 square miles of farm land as well as 3 million bushels of
grain
storage, a fertilizer and spraying business. Wild oats cost him money
in
the
field, when he buys the grain from farmers and when he sell it to the
mill
or larger grain merchant. I farmed for him for 10 year and did
business
with
him and his father all my life. If he tells me it is too dangerous to
use
I
believe him. He has every reason to use the chemical and none not to.

You can think what you damn well please.

Gordon


Gordon,

Just a quick question.(Definitely not trying to start
anything here) Why would buying grain that has wild oats in it cost your
friend any extra money? Does he not deduct a percentage on payment for
dockage? I'm sure that they deduct him for that at the mill.
I've actually dealt with Puma for many years.
(phenoxaprop-p-ethyl) I've see it cause some leaf tip burning on cereals
in
extreme heat conditions, but nothing that has damaged any yield
expectations. Also, it is sprayed quite earlier than the flag leaf
emergance, and I'm sure that you realize how important the flag is to
the
wheat plant. We have such a variety of soils here, and I've yet to
experience any catastrophes or for that matter, significant yield losses
from Puma's use. It's such a universal chemical, as it can be used in
canola(off label), wheat, barley, and canary seed(off label). Are you
sure
that your not getting it mixed up with a group 2 herbicide, which can be
ugly residual wise? ex. Sulfosulfuron(Sold as Sundance by Monsanto here
in
Canada or Maverick in the U.S.A. We've had fits with this product with
crop
rotation.
I guess what really floors me a bit here is that I've
sold
about 20,000 acres of Puma here annually for a very long time and have
never
run into any situation such as the one that your stating, but in your
defense, I would sure like to hear you expand on it.

Dean,

All I know is what the fellow tells me that it hurts yields too much.
Since
he owns over a lot of wheat land that he rents out he would be using it
if
he if it worked. He as no bias against anything that makes him money and
Puma would make him money on every turn of the card.

He looses money on wild oat in wheat because he doesn't dock farmers the
full amount. I have pulled samples for him and watched him figure dockage
and when I ask he say if he dock them the full amount he will lose them as
customers. He is doing something right he is making money and the co op is
going broke.

High temperatures and drought stress could be a problem. Seventy days
before
harvest it is in the 80's fairly often and the high 90's are not unheard
of.
Seventy days before harvest in the middle of march is also a fairly common
time for drought stress almost every year. January and February are the
two
driest months and March is pretty chancy on rain. There is an 50% chance
of
the wheat going though drought stress last two weeks of March and close to
80% if you add the first two weeks of April.

There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that long
hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year. It is
not
because OSU and Texas A&M aren't looking for a way to control wild oats. I
know the guy that runs the weed work in wheat at OSU and doesn't try to
slow
things down.

Gordon

Gordon,
What kind of cropping system is used primarily? Is it
conventional, min-til, no-til? Are you aware of triallate? It's sold under
the name Avadex. It's very old chemistry, but very effective.Of course it
won't be used in a no or min til situation, but under conventional methods,
it fits very well.
By the way, what's the crop looking like in that part of the
world? We were struggling for rain, as we've only had 1.5 inches since May
1. Last night we had another inch, and for all intents and purposes,
hopefully have given the crops a reprieve for maybe a week or two. Should
see a few smiles around here for a couple of days.



Dean

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 02:07:02 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

There is usably some reason that a chemical that has been around that
long
hasn't been cleared for north Texas and Oklahoma until this year.

If it's fenoxaprop in the formulation Puma, you are thinking of, it
was registered for wild oats in wheat in Texas/Oklahoma only last
year. However, for the same application, and with the same active
ingredient, you have had e.g. Silverado since the mid nineties.

There is usually some reason that a chemical has been cleared
and around for that long, namely that it has been found to be
safe and useful for the stated purpose.

Like Roundup :-)