On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:36:17 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

(Torsten Brinch) writes:

And here, Larry Caldwell appears to have fallen in love with RR wheat
so much that he'd like to suggest there are significant gains in the
safety of eating and perceptible changes in the flavor of bread by
using roundup in RR wheat vs using weed control in wheat as it is done
currently.

There are certainly environmental gains to be made through RR wheat. Not
only does it allow no-till control of erosion, it cuts the herbicide
application to a fraction of conventional use. Wild oat is not the only
invasive grass in wheat that it is difficult to control, and the required
herbicides are highly toxic.

Here in the PNW, we have to deal with wild oat, yellow foxtail, green
foxtail, italian ryegrass, downy brome, persian darnel, black grass and
wind grass. Getting a clean field can require applications at many
different stages of growth, and getting rid of a jointed goat grass
infestation in a wheat field is virtually impossible without taking the
field out of production. RR wheat is the answer to the both the
farmers' and the environmentalists' prayers.

Nah, Larry, first you'd need to explain the gourmet thing. What the
**** was that for?

But not if the wheat is engineered to resist the roundup. And you don't
have to worry about that nasty "up to a point" concept anymore ;-) Bummer
about the cursing. Only frustrated folks need to curse and then it makes
others not want to listen to what you are saying. In fact IMO it weakens
your case.

Dave

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:04:13 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:

I would appreciate your opinion as to why Puma is a better "wheat"
herbicide
than Roundup. Thanks.

Huh? If you want a herbicide to kill wheat, Roundup would be the
better of the two. Roundup just ****ing kills wheat, while Puma is
well tolerated up to a point.

David,
I've had a lot of opportunity to agree to disagree with Torsten
through a few thoughts on this newsgroup, but this is one topic that I agree
with him whole heartedly. In a true no-till system, like Larry had mentioned
earlier, it's good practice to do a pre-seed "burnoff" before seeding wheat
with glyphosate to control some winter annuals, then control pretty much any
other weeds that come in crop with a product such as
Puma(fenoxaprop-p-ethyl), or Discover(in U.S.A.) clodinafop propargyl, in
conjuction with a broadleaf killing product. (ex. Refine Extra-
Thifensulfuron methyl + Tribenuran methyl). There really is no need for
Round-Up ready wheat. Like I had stated earlier in this thread, with a crop
such as canola, there are so many limitations to weed control, and that is
why it has really taken off here in Saskatchewan(Canada). IMO, if it's not
broken, and you can't improve it, why do it????









"David Kendra" wrote in message
...

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 14:47:35 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

Puma doesn't produce the milling qualities, protein and color that are
expected of wheat from our area. We had some wheat test 15% protein
this
year.

Bwahahaha

Puma is a herbicide, you dumb, dumb American.

Torsten,

You are starting to sound like a spoiled child who isn't getting his way
and
who resorts to name calling and pouting when no one listens to him/her -
kind of like Chive in the sci.environment newsgroup. I am sad to see you
resort to such actions. In the past I always enjoyed reading your posts
even though I didn't necessarily agree with all of your comments. Why are
you so upset as of late?

I would appreciate your opinion as to why Puma is a better "wheat"
herbicide
than Roundup. Thanks.

Dave

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:15:09 -0500, "Gordon Couger"
wrote:

After a perfect year for wild oats in western Oklahoma Round Up
Ready
wheat would find a place if it could be sold. Depending on custom
cutter
and bigger combines have scattered wild oats every where and
normal
cultural practices in wheat won't control them.

But you have Puma available to deal with wild oats in the growing
crop, haven't you?

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:47:54 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:

But not if the wheat is engineered to resist the roundup. And you don't
have to worry about that nasty "up to a point" concept anymore ;-)

Bah, if you mean control you need to get at the grass weeds early in
any case.

Bummer
about the cursing. Only frustrated folks need to curse and then it makes
others not want to listen to what you are saying. In fact IMO it weakens
your case.

Bwhahaha. An American offended by one of the ****ing most commonly
used word in ****ing common American.

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:04:13 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:

I would appreciate your opinion as to why Puma is a better "wheat"
herbicide
than Roundup. Thanks.

Huh? If you want a herbicide to kill wheat, Roundup would be the
better of the two. Roundup just ****ing kills wheat, while Puma is
well tolerated up to a point.

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:47:54 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:

But not if the wheat is engineered to resist the roundup. And you don't
have to worry about that nasty "up to a point" concept anymore ;-)

Bah, if you mean control you need to get at the grass weeds early in
any case.

Bummer
about the cursing. Only frustrated folks need to curse and then it makes
others not want to listen to what you are saying. In fact IMO it weakens
your case.

Bwhahaha. An American offended by one of the ****ing most commonly
used word in ****ing common American.

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:04:13 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:

I would appreciate your opinion as to why Puma is a better "wheat"
herbicide
than Roundup. Thanks.

Huh? If you want a herbicide to kill wheat, Roundup would be the
better of the two. Roundup just ****ing kills wheat, while Puma is
well tolerated up to a point.

Dean Ronn ?@?.? writes
I've had a lot of opportunity to agree to disagree with Torsten
through a few thoughts on this newsgroup, but this is one topic that I agree
with him whole heartedly. In a true no-till system, like Larry had mentioned
earlier, it's good practice to do a pre-seed "burnoff" before seeding wheat
with glyphosate to control some winter annuals, then control pretty much any
other weeds that come in crop with a product such as
Puma(fenoxaprop-p-ethyl), or Discover(in U.S.A.) clodinafop propargyl, in
conjuction with a broadleaf killing product. (ex. Refine Extra-
Thifensulfuron methyl + Tribenuran methyl). There really is no need for
Round-Up ready wheat. Like I had stated earlier in this thread, with a crop
such as canola, there are so many limitations to weed control, and that is
why it has really taken off here in Saskatchewan(Canada). IMO, if it's not
broken, and you can't improve it, why do it????

Interesting.

In the UK in arable areas canola is the easy one. A spray of dimfop to
control cereals and some trifluralin to dampen down blw is all I use for
nearly all fields (some sometimes need some dow shield for thistles).

But cereals are a big problem, primarily due to resistant and tolerant
blackgrass but increasingly to dimfop resistant wild oats. This is
particularly acute in high organic fields (say 10%+).

RR wheat would be quite nice were it not for the fact that I would
expect the rapid emergence of RR-resistant blackgrass.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

(Torsten Brinch) writes:

Nah, Larry, first you'd need to explain the gourmet thing. What the
**** was that for?

I figured you for a picky eater.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:25:08 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

(Torsten Brinch) writes:

Nah, Larry, first you'd need to explain the gourmet thing. What the
**** was that for?

I figured you for a picky eater.

The truth, Larry, out with it. You'll feel much better afterwards.

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:47:54 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:

But not if the wheat is engineered to resist the roundup. And you don't
have to worry about that nasty "up to a point" concept anymore ;-)

Bah, if you mean control you need to get at the grass weeds early in
any case.

LMAO...keep trying Torsten. How much wheat do you actually grow?

Dave

Bummer
about the cursing. Only frustrated folks need to curse and then it makes
others not want to listen to what you are saying. In fact IMO it weakens
your case.

Bwhahaha. An American offended by one of the ****ing most commonly
used word in ****ing common American.

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:04:13 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:

I would appreciate your opinion as to why Puma is a better "wheat"
herbicide
than Roundup. Thanks.

Huh? If you want a herbicide to kill wheat, Roundup would be the
better of the two. Roundup just ****ing kills wheat, while Puma is
well tolerated up to a point.

(Torsten Brinch) writes:
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:25:08 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

(Torsten Brinch) writes:

Nah, Larry, first you'd need to explain the gourmet thing. What the
**** was that for?

I figured you for a picky eater.

The truth, Larry, out with it. You'll feel much better afterwards.

OK. I think you are an idiot who is opposed to GM crops for religious
reasons.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Larry Caldwell writes
(Torsten Brinch) writes:
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:25:08 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

(Torsten Brinch) writes:

Nah, Larry, first you'd need to explain the gourmet thing. What the
**** was that for?

I figured you for a picky eater.

The truth, Larry, out with it. You'll feel much better afterwards.

OK. I think you are an idiot who is opposed to GM crops for religious
reasons.

Torsten was once quite lucid.

I've noticed over the years that he has become bitter and twisted and
prone to resorting to childish word games which he thinks makes him look
smart.

Trouble is that he has been shown to be wrong so often now that I
suspect he has little confidence in himself.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 03:09:35 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:


"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 22:47:54 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:

But not if the wheat is engineered to resist the roundup. And you don't
have to worry about that nasty "up to a point" concept anymore ;-)

Bah, if you mean control you need to get at the grass weeds early in
any case.

LMAO...keep trying Torsten.

Laugh away, you know I am right. Or otta.

How much wheat do you actually grow?

This year nothing, it is all maize.



Dave

Bummer
about the cursing. Only frustrated folks need to curse and then it makes
others not want to listen to what you are saying. In fact IMO it weakens
your case.

Bwhahaha. An American offended by one of the ****ing most commonly
used word in ****ing common American.

"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 17:04:13 GMT, "David Kendra"
wrote:

I would appreciate your opinion as to why Puma is a better "wheat"
herbicide
than Roundup. Thanks.

Huh? If you want a herbicide to kill wheat, Roundup would be the
better of the two. Roundup just ****ing kills wheat, while Puma is
well tolerated up to a point.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 05:06:56 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

(Torsten Brinch) writes:
On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 00:25:08 GMT, Larry Caldwell
wrote:

(Torsten Brinch) writes:

Nah, Larry, first you'd need to explain the gourmet thing. What the
**** was that for?

I figured you for a picky eater.

The truth, Larry, out with it. You'll feel much better afterwards.

OK. I think you are an idiot who is opposed to GM crops for religious
reasons.

By all means let it all hang out. And?

(Torsten Brinch) writes:

By all means let it all hang out. And?

Talk about farming. So, how do YOU handle jointed goat grass? Wouldn't
it be nice to just spray it once with Roundup and be done with the
problem?

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

Interesting.

In the UK in arable areas canola is the easy one. A spray of dimfop to
control cereals and some trifluralin to dampen down blw is all I use for
nearly all fields (some sometimes need some dow shield for thistles).

But cereals are a big problem, primarily due to resistant and tolerant
blackgrass but increasingly to dimfop resistant wild oats. This is
particularly acute in high organic fields (say 10%+).

RR wheat would be quite nice were it not for the fact that I would
expect the rapid emergence of RR-resistant blackgrass.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.


Actually Oz, I see that obviously there are a few harder to kill grassy
weeds in your part of the world. With this being the case, obviously there
is a fit for the wheat technology. Our three primary ones are wild oats,
yellow(green) foxtail, and quackgrass.
As far as the canola goes, we've been fighting hard to kill broadleaves
here for some time. Such weeds as round leaf mallow and cleavers have made
Round-Up a (pardon the expression) godsend. Trifurallin is just not
acceptable in a no-till situation, as you are moving too much dirt, and it
would completely destroy the principle. The other two weeds that were very
expensive to control in crop with conventional methods were Canada thistle
and perennial sow thistle. Clopyralid(Lontrel) costs a pile of money to use,
and the Round-Up gives excellent season long control of both.