"Jill" wrote in message
...

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"James Curts" wrote in message
et...
.

We use hydroponic systems in the disadvantaged areas because they are
simple
to set up, use relatively little water, produce much quicker and
several
times more volume than dirt farming. Also orientation is surprisingly
simplified because there are no machines to operate and service and
very
few
people are required to maintain a system keeping the training process
to
a
minimum.

I give hydroponics high marks for being in the forefront of the food
producing industry as we move more rapidly into a world in which food
is
a
cost and availability issue for everyone. Hydroponics will be the life
saver
of many in 3rd world nations as help becomes more available and
accepted.

Thank you

how does the capital cost of starting up a Hydroponics system compare
with
a
more conventional system?

depends on the Hydroponics
There is the expensive what is used in commercial horticulture
and there is a very good set up that costs very little
ideal for the 3rd world but not been picked up and run with
- works on the basis of rain gutters or similar - a fair amount of
perlite -
a solar pump - and some white and shiny plastic.
Unfortunately the only person to make this work extremely well is not in
the
position to make this pay
but boy does it work

--
Jill Bowis

http://www.poultryscotland.co.uk http://www.henhouses.co.uk
http://www.domesticducks.co.uk http://www.poultry-books.co.uk
http://www.kintaline.co.uk/cottage

Jim Webster

James Curts







I would be curious to know who this one person is, Jill. This gutter system
with only slight variations is used in many of the commercial, home and
hobby set ups. Even larger plant crops including cucumbers and tomatoes are
grown in gutter type systems utilizing larger gutters. This is especially
true of recirculating systems.

The Australian lettuce and greens growers use gutter systems out doors and
often with only bird netting over them. Their crops are, of course, quite
seasonal but very successful.

Gordon Creaser is a great proponent of perlite growing media and it is used
in many rather large systems which he designs and often in a bag and
sometimes in tables, etc..

Hydroponics systems work and are very productive but on a commercial scale
do require a higher degree of sophistication in training and equipment.

James Curts

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"James Curts" wrote in message
et...
.

We use hydroponic systems in the disadvantaged areas because they are
simple
to set up, use relatively little water, produce much quicker and several
times more volume than dirt farming. Also orientation is surprisingly
simplified because there are no machines to operate and service and very
few
people are required to maintain a system keeping the training process to
a
minimum.

I give hydroponics high marks for being in the forefront of the food
producing industry as we move more rapidly into a world in which food is
a
cost and availability issue for everyone. Hydroponics will be the life
saver
of many in 3rd world nations as help becomes more available and
accepted.

Thank you

how does the capital cost of starting up a Hydroponics system compare with
a
more conventional system?

Jim Webster

James Curts





Systems such as the Australians use which are outdoors, of a gutter type
supported on metal frames are not expensive to set up. The gutters which are
about a $1.50 to 2.25 per foot, I am guessing here as I am a long way from
there, are a significant expense while the other major expenses would be
handling, cooling, packaging and shipping. Pumps, nutrient mixing and
storage equipment are also of consequence.

When setting up a greenhouse system which is more common the costs escalate
in part because a controlled environment must be established and
maintained at all times. Commercial greenhouse systems are computer
controlled in practically every aspect from heating/cooling, supplemental
grow light timing, nutrient mixing/feeding and in some instances even the
continual movement of the plant containers along the tables.

A single 3000+ square foot greenhouse could go as high as $40,000+ for a
top of the line ready to plant seeds system. This probably would not include
cooling for harvested produce and of course nothing beyond that point in the
delivery to market. It is a good indication of the production one must
expect in order to pay out on an investment of this nature. The single house
must be handled quite expertly and often with specialized crops to enter
into the commercial market with any degree of success. without some
supplemental income.

They are not an el cheapo project when on a commercial standing. They do
certainly shine when considering that produce comes out of these places all
year long and is of top quality and in amounts which surpass conventional
growing methods many times over

The systems which are introduced in some disadvantaged situations are very
rudimentary, though functional and productive in varying degrees depending
on the diligence of operation, quality of available water, etc. and are
generally outdoors and seasonal.

Quite a study of course but getting to be a serious consideration for more
of the evolving nations and their people.

James Curts

Jill writes
depends on the Hydroponics
There is the expensive what is used in commercial horticulture
and there is a very good set up that costs very little
ideal for the 3rd world but not been picked up and run with
- works on the basis of rain gutters or similar - a fair amount of perlite -
a solar pump - and some white and shiny plastic.
Unfortunately the only person to make this work extremely well is not in the
position to make this pay
but boy does it work

Please to note that in arid areas irrigation on sandy soil is
effectively low cost hydroponics.

Nothing revolutionary at all, the ancient egyptians did it.

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

sw writes
Absolutely. Funny you should mention that, there's a piece in the paper
about a local charity operating in Rajasthan. Started when a local
doctor travelled out with a school group and saw just how bad things can
be in a poor agricultural area. They raised UKP40,000 the first year to
fund education, health care and women's programmes, and are now close to
UKP100,000 per year. When there was a major drought, resulting in both
food shortage and unemployment -- there's no work for ag workers if
there are no crops -- the charity mobilised money to build concrete
watertanks and construct contour bunding to catch surface water on the
fields, paying the ag workers to do the work. End result, they had money
to buy food and the improvements improved their lives and crops in the
long term. *That's* how aid should work.

Now look here!

This just has to STOP.

It simply isn't acceptable behaviour from either of us.

It lets the side down.

One should maintain standards.

I'm supporting you in another thread, and here you supported me.

It just won't do.

What will everyone think?

--
Oz
This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious.
Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted.

"Oz" wrote in message
...
Jill writes
depends on the Hydroponics
There is the expensive what is used in commercial horticulture
and there is a very good set up that costs very little
ideal for the 3rd world but not been picked up and run with
- works on the basis of rain gutters or similar - a fair amount of
perlite -
a solar pump - and some white and shiny plastic.
Unfortunately the only person to make this work extremely well is not in
the
position to make this pay
but boy does it work

Please to note that in arid areas irrigation on sandy soil is
effectively low cost hydroponics.

Nothing revolutionary at all, the ancient egyptians did it.

--
Oz


I am not certain how the definition would apply there unless they are
actually introducing supplemental feeding into the irrigation water. But
with the plants growing from soil calling it hydroponics is rather a
stretch I would think.

We have installed miles of drip lines in grape fields, Asian pear orchards,
etc. but it is not hydroponics.

Hydroponics is not in itself revolutionary. The application to modern forms
of food production and in the quantities being produce is revolutionary.
This becomes more apparent where in the 3rd world type applications we see
it virtually bringing new life to people through this revolutionary form of
food production.

Rather a play on terminology perhaps but ancient the Greeks derived the name
from terms describing "Water Work." Hydroponics, in essence allows plants to
grow without a sustaining media and indeed in many projects no media is
used. The medias used in hydroponics systems server to support the plant and
regulate oxygen and moisture to the plant roots.

Revolutionary to you and I, probably not, but to those who are given a new
lease on their very existence it is certainly revolutionary.

James Curts

"James Curts" wrote in message
et...

"Jim Webster" wrote in message
...

"James Curts" wrote in message
et...
.

We use hydroponic systems in the disadvantaged areas because they are
simple
to set up, use relatively little water, produce much quicker and
several
times more volume than dirt farming. Also orientation is surprisingly
simplified because there are no machines to operate and service and
very
few
people are required to maintain a system keeping the training process
to
a
minimum.

I give hydroponics high marks for being in the forefront of the food
producing industry as we move more rapidly into a world in which food
is
a
cost and availability issue for everyone. Hydroponics will be the life
saver
of many in 3rd world nations as help becomes more available and
accepted.

Thank you

how does the capital cost of starting up a Hydroponics system compare
with
a
more conventional system?

Jim Webster

James Curts


A group with which I am familiar here in Oregon, and has established
hydroponics systems for the disadvantaged in several world locations, can do
so for prices ranging around $5 per square meter. Utilizing materials at
hand contribute to this as equipment of any sort is generally impractical.
If by chance electricity is available the options are greatly improved.

These systems produce any of a variety of melons, squash, greens, etc.. Many
of these are outdoors or under coverings to fend off sun, rain or pests.

This also brings to light yet another issue when introducing a food system
into a culture other than your own. Foods types which they are familiar with
are often a very necessary consideration for the success of a project.

James Curts

In article , Oz
writes
One should maintain standards.

I'm supporting you in another thread, and here you supported me.

It just won't do.

What will everyone think?

What do people usually think when you are both lost at night in
Stevenage and have just turned left on *blue 2* for the fifth time?

regards


--
Tim Lamb

In article , Oz
writes
One should maintain standards.

I'm supporting you in another thread, and here you supported me.

It just won't do.

What will everyone think?

What do people usually think when you are both lost at night in
Stevenage and have just turned left on *blue 2* for the fifth time?

regards


--
Tim Lamb

David P wrote:

In article ,
says...
Oz wrote:


How’s this for a business proposal for you: You give the company a $200
deposit. You get a jar of beads which you string onto fishing wire â€"
and in 20 days they pick up the 100, 20 cm strings you’ve made and they
give you your deposit back plus $94.


Bloody hell. I hope there *Is* a hell, with a special corner for people
who do that to the poor and desperate.

It happens in this country as well Sarah.

There are also those other scams that affect those with rather more money
- WEW [women empowering women] is one that comes to mind along with the
one a few years ago; Alchemy??

Wilst there are gullible people [through need or greed] people will make
money out of them.

I know. But here social services ensures -- or should -- that no one
starves. And Trading Standards, etc, will try to track the culprits
down. The third world poor may be easy meat, worth targeting because
they are easy, but the people who steal from those who have almost
nothing are despicable beyond belief.

regards
sarah

--
Waist deep, neck deep
We'll be drowning before too long
We're neck deep in the Big Muddy
And the damned fools keep yelling to push on

Oz wrote:

sw writes
Absolutely. Funny you should mention that, there's a piece in the paper
about a local charity operating in Rajasthan. Started when a local
doctor travelled out with a school group and saw just how bad things can
be in a poor agricultural area. They raised UKP40,000 the first year to
fund education, health care and women's programmes, and are now close to
UKP100,000 per year. When there was a major drought, resulting in both
food shortage and unemployment -- there's no work for ag workers if
there are no crops -- the charity mobilised money to build concrete
watertanks and construct contour bunding to catch surface water on the
fields, paying the ag workers to do the work. End result, they had money
to buy food and the improvements improved their lives and crops in the
long term. *That's* how aid should work.

Now look here!

This just has to STOP.

It simply isn't acceptable behaviour from either of us.

It lets the side down.

One should maintain standards.

I'm supporting you in another thread, and here you supported me.

It just won't do.

What will everyone think?

That we've finally got the dosage right :-)

regards
sarah


--
Waist deep, neck deep
We'll be drowning before too long
We're neck deep in the Big Muddy
And the damned fools keep yelling to push on

"sw" wrote in message
...
David P wrote:

In article ,
says...
Oz wrote:


Howâ?Ts this for a business proposal for you: You give the company a
$200
deposit. You get a jar of beads which you string onto fishing wire
â?"
and in 20 days they pick up the 100, 20 cm strings youâ?Tve made and
they
give you your deposit back plus $94.


Bloody hell. I hope there *Is* a hell, with a special corner for
people
who do that to the poor and desperate.

It happens in this country as well Sarah.

There are also those other scams that affect those with rather more
money
- WEW [women empowering women] is one that comes to mind along with the
one a few years ago; Alchemy??

Wilst there are gullible people [through need or greed] people will make
money out of them.

I know. But here social services ensures -- or should -- that no one
starves. And Trading Standards, etc, will try to track the culprits
down. The third world poor may be easy meat, worth targeting because
they are easy, but the people who steal from those who have almost
nothing are despicable beyond belief.


I know for a fact that Cumbria Trading Standards collared one of these bogus
consultants who would get you EU grants if you paid them £300. They invited
them to the Trading Standards office, and by throwing a sack over the sign
became "Cumbria Trading" rather than "Cumbria Trading Standards."
The idiot went in and gave them his spiel, which was recorded as evidence. I
felt CTS had excelled themselves

Jim Webster

Jim Webster wrote:

"sw" wrote in message
...
David P wrote:

[-]

Wilst there are gullible people [through need or greed] people will make
money out of them.

I know. But here social services ensures -- or should -- that no one
starves. And Trading Standards, etc, will try to track the culprits
down. The third world poor may be easy meat, worth targeting because
they are easy, but the people who steal from those who have almost
nothing are despicable beyond belief.


I know for a fact that Cumbria Trading Standards collared one of these bogus
consultants who would get you EU grants if you paid them £300. They invited
them to the Trading Standards office, and by throwing a sack over the sign
became "Cumbria Trading" rather than "Cumbria Trading Standards."
The idiot went in and gave them his spiel, which was recorded as evidence. I
felt CTS had excelled themselves

"Think of it as evolution in action".


regards
sarah


--
Waist deep, neck deep
We'll be drowning before too long
We're neck deep in the Big Muddy
And the damned fools keep yelling to push on

"sw" wrote in message
...
Jim Webster wrote:
I know for a fact that Cumbria Trading Standards collared one of these
bogus
consultants who would get you EU grants if you paid them £300. They
invited
them to the Trading Standards office, and by throwing a sack over the
sign
became "Cumbria Trading" rather than "Cumbria Trading Standards."
The idiot went in and gave them his spiel, which was recorded as
evidence. I
felt CTS had excelled themselves

"Think of it as evolution in action".

absolutely.

anyone who is so stupid should not be allowed to breed!

I suspect trading standards must have had to keep pinching themselves

Jim Webster



regards
sarah


--
Waist deep, neck deep
We'll be drowning before too long
We're neck deep in the Big Muddy
And the damned fools keep yelling to push on

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"James Curts" wrote in message
news:OoeSa.97891$ye4.68848@sccrnsc01...
A group with which I am familiar here in Oregon, and has established
hydroponics systems for the disadvantaged in several world locations, can
do
so for prices ranging around $5 per square meter. Utilizing materials at
hand contribute to this as equipment of any sort is generally impractical.
If by chance electricity is available the options are greatly improved.

These systems produce any of a variety of melons, squash, greens, etc..
Many
of these are outdoors or under coverings to fend off sun, rain or pests.

This also brings to light yet another issue when introducing a food
system
into a culture other than your own. Foods types which they are familiar
with
are often a very necessary consideration for the success of a project.

James Curts

It has been interesting looking at hydroponics in the 3rd world. I suspect
in the UK, we are deterred by the high capital cost and such things as
energy. Somewhere with adequate sun is going to short circuit a lot of that.
I was interested at how cheaply the systems can be set up.

I suspect the nearest we see to hydroponics outdoors in the UK will be dirty
water irrigation on sandy land :-))

Jim Webster

On Saturday, in article
"Jim Webster" wrote:

I know for a fact that Cumbria Trading Standards collared one of these bogus
consultants who would get you EU grants if you paid them £300. They invited
them to the Trading Standards office, and by throwing a sack over the sign
became "Cumbria Trading" rather than "Cumbria Trading Standards."
The idiot went in and gave them his spiel, which was recorded as evidence. I
felt CTS had excelled themselves

How many doors does their local Church have now?


--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."