Hi,

I have several live oaks in my yard (Austin, TX) and
an arborist recommended deep root fertilization plus
a micro injection. He visited my property November 1st
but I didn't schedule an appointment immediately. It
is now December 16. QUESTION: Is it too late now for
the treatment? Should I wait for early spring?

Thanks!

I would suggest you save your money or at the very least get a second onion
from a registered and licensed arborist. If you know or think you have a
real problem and then I would get a second opinion. The native live oaks
have been surviving in this area for a few years without "deep root
fertilization" or a "micro injection". I doubt Sitting Bull and the boys
were treating the Oaks.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi,

I have several live oaks in my yard (Austin, TX) and
an arborist recommended deep root fertilization plus
a micro injection. He visited my property November 1st
but I didn't schedule an appointment immediately. It
is now December 16. QUESTION: Is it too late now for
the treatment? Should I wait for early spring?

Thanks!

On 16 Dec 2006 10:25:04 -0800, wrote:

Hi,

I have several live oaks in my yard (Austin, TX) and
an arborist recommended deep root fertilization plus
a micro injection. He visited my property November 1st
but I didn't schedule an appointment immediately. It
is now December 16. QUESTION: Is it too late now for
the treatment? Should I wait for early spring?

Thanks!

I don't want to get into a battle with another arborist about the
recommendations for your trees, especially having never seen them. I
will make some general statements about fertilization, instead.

First, I like to think of fert. as feeding the soil, not the roots or
the plant. A good balance of nutrients, organic matter, and microbial
life will lead to an active soil ecosystem. In turn, the nutrients
become more accessible to absorbing roots.

If there is not already an excess of salts, the timing should not
matter much (caveat: during extremely hot and/or dry weather,
nitrogen can burn plant tissue, but, even then, accompanying the
treatment with a good soaking should alleviate the problem). I
suggest a soil test before adding any nutrients. Most Austin soil has
plenty (or too much) P and K but not much N and not much organic
matter. Catering the fert. mix to the existing situation will
minimize the chance of damaging the plants and reduce runoff into the
storm sewers and creeks.

As for trees and other plants, too much fertilizer can be a bad thing.
Even if you don't get an overabundance of salts, a weak tree may be
forced into spending its last energy reserves to create the flush of
new growth that will come from a bunch of nitrogen, then it will need
to spend some energy to support that growth. It could fizzle and die
rather than booming forth with renewed vigor. It's not common, I
suspect, but worth noting.

Now, that deep root thing. When we talk about tree roots, we have to
start by understanding how trees look underground. There is not a
reverse-lollipop of a root ball like some people assume. Roots will
exploit any source of air, water, and/or support they can find, but
ideally they form a wide, spreading mat of feeder roots in the top
foot or two of soil that reaches well beyond the tree's dripline.
Meanwhile, some really deep roots are established to help anchor the
tree. Most of the absorption of nutrients takes place in the feeder
roots. Thus, "deep root feeding" really just needs to be deep enough
to get below the grass on the surface. A really deep injection will
put most of the fetilizer below the roots that could use it. I'm not
saying there are no good reasons for deep-root injection, but I think
it is possible to care for most trees effectively without it.

And the injections: Each injection will create a small hole that
penetrates the tree's "skin" and might allow decay or disease to enter
the cambium underneath. These wounds do not heal; the tree just has a
system to minimize the spread of the decay (part pysical, part
chemical). If you come back in a year to do the same thing, you will
need new holes because the old ones will have been plugged up.
Injections have their place, but I would make sure this tree needs
such treatment before going ahead.

My opinion: top dressing the soil with composted manure twice a year
will take care of most Austinites' fert. needs. It will reach the
grass first, it's true, but as it decays it will leach into the soil,
relieving compaction and allowing deeper penetration over time, while
also burning through some of the bonds between calcium and the other
nutrients that are often present but unusable by the plant. As
compost is mostly nitrogen and organics, it suits the soil we see here
most of the time. It is somewhat acidic, which addresses the
abundance of limestone we have. And it is easy to apply, so you can
hire a teenager or a yard man cheaply to do the job.

Meanwhile, a 2-3" layer of mulch over th critical root zone will make
a big difference to most trees.
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/mulching.aspx

Again, that's my general opinion on the matter. I am not making
specific recommendations for your trees. But I concur with the
suggestion of a second arborist's opinion. Don Gardner (512.263.2586)
has decades of experience in Austin and does consultations only, so
you needn't fear he is motivated to sell with his recommendations. In
the interest of full disclosure, I know he will usually advocate for
the approach I have suggested, but he will be able to spot situations
that may call for a more intensive approach. If you want, a third
opinion (or a different second) can be obtained easily by looking in
the YP under "arborists" (the "tree work" section is densely populated
with companies along the full spectrum from hacker to expert, so it
can be more challenging to sort out who knows what). Also, the ISA
maintains a site where you can search for local certified arborists:
http://www.isa-arbor.com/findArborist/findarborist.aspx Along with
ISA certification, consultants may be members of the American Society
of Consulting Arborists, which has more intensive educational
requirements for membership than ISA.

To further aid your search for good advice, educate yourself first at
www.treesaregood.com and learn to spot the straight dope among the BS.
Specifically,
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/mature_care.aspx talks about
fertilization.

good luck,

Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT

On 16 Dec 2006 10:25:04 -0800, wrote:

Hi,

I have several live oaks in my yard (Austin, TX) and
an arborist recommended deep root fertilization plus
a micro injection. He visited my property November 1st
but I didn't schedule an appointment immediately. It
is now December 16. QUESTION: Is it too late now for
the treatment? Should I wait for early spring?

Thanks!

The only trees I actively fertilize are fruit trees. I never
fertilize my live oaks, and mine are hundreds of years old. One
arborist told me the big one is about 500 years old and all of them
are officially tagged by the county. I cut them down, each tree will
be a fifteen thousand dollar fine.

That said, what I DO, DO, is to spread a liberal layer of fine
compost. I buy a yard or two from The Natural Gardener, their
"Revitilizer" mix is best for both trees and vegetable gardens. Then,
I pay someone to come in and core aerate the ground under the trees.

When it doesn't rain, I lay out soaker hoses and water the trees very
deeply for about eight hours and have virtually NO loss to
evaporation. I do that once a month in summer.

[snipped message]
Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT


Thank you for a VERY helpful post!
I've been using Milorganite fertilizer in my yard. Have you used it?

Cindy

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:14:37 GMT, Cindy wrote:

[snipped message]
Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT


Thank you for a VERY helpful post!
I've been using Milorganite fertilizer in my yard. Have you used it?

Cindy
No, I haven't seen any up close. I gather it is a granular product,
an organic version of material stripped down to basic nutrients. I
like the compost products because they bring a full ecosystem to your
soil. I'm not sure if milorganite adds actual bulk humus-type stuff
and microbes or not.

I should also clarify that compost really isn't adding much NPK. More
N than PK, but still not a lot. Given the native conditions, I think
boosting the N is generally unnecesary. Trees here are pretty adapted
to low N. Transplants and extreme cases excepted.

keith

* Treedweller wrote, On 12/18/2006 6:51 PM:
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:14:37 GMT, Cindy wrote:

I've been using Milorganite fertilizer in my yard. Have you used it?

Cindy

No, I haven't seen any up close. I gather it is a granular product,
an organic version of material stripped down to basic nutrients. I
like the compost products because they bring a full ecosystem to your
soil. I'm not sure if milorganite adds actual bulk humus-type stuff
and microbes or not.

Yes, black granules. You use a fair amount at a time, and if you put it down at
the wrong time or spill too much, it doesn't burn the plants. A long-time mom
and pop nursery owner near me swears by it and says it does add to the soil.
Has a rather, um, interesting odor though, but then so do a lot of organic products.

Cindy

I believe it is composted sewer sludge from Milwaukee. Same as our alamo
grow and I think you have a similiar product in Austin. This accounts for
the "interesting oder". I have heard some concerns about what other
chemicals that maybe in the product but the Government has certified it as
safe. For a couple bucks more you can get good compost.
Cliff

"Cindy" wrote in message
t...
* Treedweller wrote, On 12/18/2006 6:51 PM:
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:14:37 GMT, Cindy wrote:

I've been using Milorganite fertilizer in my yard. Have you used it?

Cindy

No, I haven't seen any up close. I gather it is a granular product,
an organic version of material stripped down to basic nutrients. I
like the compost products because they bring a full ecosystem to your
soil. I'm not sure if milorganite adds actual bulk humus-type stuff
and microbes or not.

Yes, black granules. You use a fair amount at a time, and if you put it
down at the wrong time or spill too much, it doesn't burn the plants. A
long-time mom and pop nursery owner near me swears by it and says it does
add to the soil. Has a rather, um, interesting odor though, but then so do
a lot of organic products.

Cindy

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:14:37 GMT, Cindy wrote:

[snipped message]
Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT


Thank you for a VERY helpful post!
I've been using Milorganite fertilizer in my yard. Have you used it?

Cindy

Milorganite is cheap and decent, but it is made of human biosolids. I
like Ladybug Brand or Sustane. Reason being you will get both bio and
fungal properties. Trees thrive in soils with a dense network in the
fungal mat beneath the soil. If you nurture that, the trees will be
very happy, but Milorganite is okay. It stinks too!

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:51:26 -0600, Treedweller
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:14:37 GMT, Cindy wrote:

[snipped message]
Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT


Thank you for a VERY helpful post!
I've been using Milorganite fertilizer in my yard. Have you used it?

Cindy
No, I haven't seen any up close. I gather it is a granular product,
an organic version of material stripped down to basic nutrients. I
like the compost products because they bring a full ecosystem to your
soil. I'm not sure if milorganite adds actual bulk humus-type stuff
and microbes or not.

I should also clarify that compost really isn't adding much NPK. More
N than PK, but still not a lot. Given the native conditions, I think
boosting the N is generally unnecesary. Trees here are pretty adapted
to low N. Transplants and extreme cases excepted.

keith

Milorganite is 6-1-1

* Jangchub wrote, On 12/19/2006 7:53 AM:
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:14:37 GMT, Cindy wrote:

[snipped message]
Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT

Thank you for a VERY helpful post!
I've been using Milorganite fertilizer in my yard. Have you used it?

Cindy

Milorganite is cheap and decent, but it is made of human biosolids. I
like Ladybug Brand or Sustane. Reason being you will get both bio and
fungal properties. Trees thrive in soils with a dense network in the
fungal mat beneath the soil. If you nurture that, the trees will be
very happy, but Milorganite is okay. It stinks too!

Yeah, that kind of grosses me out, but the plants sure like it. I'll have to
see what else is available close by.

Jangchub wrote:
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:14:37 GMT, Cindy wrote:


[snipped message]

Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT


Thank you for a VERY helpful post!
I've been using Milorganite fertilizer in my yard. Have you used it?

Cindy


Milorganite is cheap and decent, but it is made of human biosolids. I
like Ladybug Brand or Sustane. Reason being you will get both bio and
fungal properties. Trees thrive in soils with a dense network in the
fungal mat beneath the soil. If you nurture that, the trees will be
very happy, but Milorganite is okay. It stinks too!

Human biosolids.................I thought that was called Soylent Green
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green
;-)

* jOhN wrote, On 12/21/2006 10:13 PM:


Human biosolids.................I thought that was called Soylent Green
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green
;-)

EEEeeuw! I want to watch that movie.

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 02:54:48 GMT, Cindy wrote:

* Jangchub wrote, On 12/19/2006 7:53 AM:
On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 00:14:37 GMT, Cindy wrote:

[snipped message]
Keith Babberney
ISA Certified Arborist #TX-0236AT

Thank you for a VERY helpful post!
I've been using Milorganite fertilizer in my yard. Have you used it?

Cindy

Milorganite is cheap and decent, but it is made of human biosolids. I
like Ladybug Brand or Sustane. Reason being you will get both bio and
fungal properties. Trees thrive in soils with a dense network in the
fungal mat beneath the soil. If you nurture that, the trees will be
very happy, but Milorganite is okay. It stinks too!

Yeah, that kind of grosses me out, but the plants sure like it. I'll have to
see what else is available close by.

I'd only suggest you be careful using it. Cover your arms, legs and
wear gloves. Apply when not windy. I used to think biosolids were
okay till I discovered how many heavy metals were found in the
product.