On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:47:42 GMT, whit wrote:

I've a friend who has a neighbor who is threatening legal BS if he
doesn't remove a tree that she claims the roots of which are causing her
house foundation problems. She also says the branches of this tree
damaged her house in the recent wind storms.

They live way up north, in the west Round Rock/ Williamson county area.
I told him that the problems were hers and she was nuts to ask him to
remove the tree, but she claims to have spoken to a lawyer. I suggested
he contact an arborist.

I also mentioned that the property line was the dividing line for tree
limbs and roots, anything on her side of the fence was hers and her
responsibility...but I'm wondering, is that a local law, a state law or
even a law at all?

Comments, suggestions?
I attended a seminar on trees and the law a couple of years ago. The
gist of it was, there are few municipalities with laws addressing
these questions directly. The precedents come from places other than
Austin, but tend to support what others have posted here. You can cut
back any branches that hang over your property line, but you cannot
trespass to cut back to a branch collar if said collar is on the
neighbor's side. It's considered trespassing even if you are aloft
and never set foot on the neighbor's soil. From the tree's
perspective, it's better to cut back to a collar, of course.

The main exception is that you cannot deliberately do something on
your property with the intent os killing the neighbor's tree. Tough
to prove, but a possible loophole.

You may want to buy this book:
http://store.isa-arbor.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=43

which is written by a lawyer experienced in tree-related cases
(Vincent Merullo, who also taught the class I attended).

AFAIK, Austin does not have a law that would help in this case, unless
the tree is larger than 19" DBH (60" circumference). Then it is a
protected tre, and a permit is required to remove it or damage it
enough to cause its death. Failure to get the permit could result in
penalties. Depending on the tree and the situation, permission may be
granted outright, or may be contingent on planting other trees as
replacements or some other mitigation measures.

good luck to your friend; it will be a tough battle to win, but not
impossible.

Keith
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www2.champaign.isa-arbor.com/.../consumer.html

There are laws in the Austin area which pertain to trees. One I understand
is that native trees over such and such a size need a permit to be cut down.
Those permits will not be given for this type of thing. She could go to
jail and be fined if she kills that tree.

As a city employee I have to do the same thing if we need to cut trees.
It's a big hassle, but I'm glad it's there for this very reason.


"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:22:01 -0500, Steve Wertz

wrote:


Can she remove the whole limb, or only that portion which extnds over
their property.

-sw

But with a nut like that I'd be worried and concerned that she doesn't
somehow
try to kill the tree with herbicides. If I were the tree owner, I'd call
the
County Extension Office and see if this tree can be numbered or reported
so if
she does do anything, she can be counter sued. I mean, the very worse
thing I'd
ever do to my neighbor (and I strongly dislike him) would be to ask that
he come
over and help with root pruning. However, there are not all that many
trees
which cause structural damage to a foundation.

V

There are laws in the Austin area which pertain to trees. One I understand
is that native trees over such and such a size need a permit to be cut down.
Those permits will not be given for this type of thing. She could go to
jail and be fined if she kills that tree.

As a city employee I have to do the same thing if we need to cut trees.
It's a big hassle, but I'm glad it's there for this very reason.


"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:22:01 -0500, Steve Wertz

wrote:


Can she remove the whole limb, or only that portion which extnds over
their property.

-sw

But with a nut like that I'd be worried and concerned that she doesn't
somehow
try to kill the tree with herbicides. If I were the tree owner, I'd call
the
County Extension Office and see if this tree can be numbered or reported
so if
she does do anything, she can be counter sued. I mean, the very worse
thing I'd
ever do to my neighbor (and I strongly dislike him) would be to ask that
he come
over and help with root pruning. However, there are not all that many
trees
which cause structural damage to a foundation.

V

Actually you are not correct. as a city employee, you should know better, do I
need to show you the city website?


saucy wrote:

There are laws in the Austin area which pertain to trees. One I understand
is that native trees over such and such a size need a permit to be cut down.
Those permits will not be given for this type of thing. She could go to
jail and be fined if she kills that tree.

As a city employee I have to do the same thing if we need to cut trees.
It's a big hassle, but I'm glad it's there for this very reason.

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:22:01 -0500, Steve Wertz

wrote:


Can she remove the whole limb, or only that portion which extnds over
their property.

-sw

But with a nut like that I'd be worried and concerned that she doesn't
somehow
try to kill the tree with herbicides. If I were the tree owner, I'd call
the
County Extension Office and see if this tree can be numbered or reported
so if
she does do anything, she can be counter sued. I mean, the very worse
thing I'd
ever do to my neighbor (and I strongly dislike him) would be to ask that
he come
over and help with root pruning. However, there are not all that many
trees
which cause structural damage to a foundation.

V

Actually you are not correct. as a city employee, you should know better, do I
need to show you the city website?


saucy wrote:

There are laws in the Austin area which pertain to trees. One I understand
is that native trees over such and such a size need a permit to be cut down.
Those permits will not be given for this type of thing. She could go to
jail and be fined if she kills that tree.

As a city employee I have to do the same thing if we need to cut trees.
It's a big hassle, but I'm glad it's there for this very reason.

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:22:01 -0500, Steve Wertz

wrote:


Can she remove the whole limb, or only that portion which extnds over
their property.

-sw

But with a nut like that I'd be worried and concerned that she doesn't
somehow
try to kill the tree with herbicides. If I were the tree owner, I'd call
the
County Extension Office and see if this tree can be numbered or reported
so if
she does do anything, she can be counter sued. I mean, the very worse
thing I'd
ever do to my neighbor (and I strongly dislike him) would be to ask that
he come
over and help with root pruning. However, there are not all that many
trees
which cause structural damage to a foundation.

V

Actually you are not correct. as a city employee, you should know better, do I
need to show you the city website?


saucy wrote:

There are laws in the Austin area which pertain to trees. One I understand
is that native trees over such and such a size need a permit to be cut down.
Those permits will not be given for this type of thing. She could go to
jail and be fined if she kills that tree.

As a city employee I have to do the same thing if we need to cut trees.
It's a big hassle, but I'm glad it's there for this very reason.

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:22:01 -0500, Steve Wertz

wrote:


Can she remove the whole limb, or only that portion which extnds over
their property.

-sw

But with a nut like that I'd be worried and concerned that she doesn't
somehow
try to kill the tree with herbicides. If I were the tree owner, I'd call
the
County Extension Office and see if this tree can be numbered or reported
so if
she does do anything, she can be counter sued. I mean, the very worse
thing I'd
ever do to my neighbor (and I strongly dislike him) would be to ask that
he come
over and help with root pruning. However, there are not all that many
trees
which cause structural damage to a foundation.

V

I would like to see it.


On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 03:18:52 GMT, jac wrote:

Actually you are not correct. as a city employee, you should know better, do I
need to show you the city website?


saucy wrote:

There are laws in the Austin area which pertain to trees. One I understand
is that native trees over such and such a size need a permit to be cut down.
Those permits will not be given for this type of thing. She could go to
jail and be fined if she kills that tree.

As a city employee I have to do the same thing if we need to cut trees.
It's a big hassle, but I'm glad it's there for this very reason.

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:22:01 -0500, Steve Wertz

wrote:


Can she remove the whole limb, or only that portion which extnds over
their property.

-sw

But with a nut like that I'd be worried and concerned that she doesn't
somehow
try to kill the tree with herbicides. If I were the tree owner, I'd call
the
County Extension Office and see if this tree can be numbered or reported
so if
she does do anything, she can be counter sued. I mean, the very worse
thing I'd
ever do to my neighbor (and I strongly dislike him) would be to ask that
he come
over and help with root pruning. However, there are not all that many
trees
which cause structural damage to a foundation.

V

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:50:34 GMT, animaux
wrote:

I would like to see it.

Most of these rules are in the City's Environmental Criteria Manual
which may be located at:
www.amlegal.com/austin_techmanuals/

Or you can find it at the City's website:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/watershed/regulation.htm
linked at the bottom of the page.

Section 3 of the ECM concerns tree protection.

Rusty Mase

Thanks for that info, Rusty! There is one thing that sort of changes
the picture when it comes to whacking trees by the Davey guys for the
city utility in the easement.

My neighbor had trees at the back of her lot that were banging from wind
against the power lines and sending sparks flying (arcing) all over her
yard. This was during a very bad drought a couple of years ago.

She was at work and I freaked because it sounded and looked like a
fireworks display in her back yard and I needed to have electricity for
my work and house and no fires. :/

I called the city and within minutes there was a crew of 6 or so with
chain saws roaring going after those trees. She came home very upset
when she saw what they had done to the trees along the utility easement.

Amazingly, she had been aware that the trees were rubbing the electric
lines and arcing, but she did not want to put her big dog inside because
it would eat the couch. So she was amazed that Bruno, a huge German
shepherd, had cowered somewhere in the yard while all these guys whacked
her trees.

The thing was, I was told that we were within a few minutes of the
transformer being brought down once those wires rubbed through and sent
a backfire back to the transformer. I was told that it could have taken
hours and even days to get our juice back. Then there was the fire issue
with the drought and we are out here is cedar country where there are
acres of cedar.

The Davey guys recently came through again and gave me a map of all the
trees and limbs that they needed to sacrifice to keep the same thing
from happening in our yards out here. Then they came and trimmed all the
trees in the easement with our permission.

Fortunately the same sort of event cannot happen again now that they
have trimmed, unless the owner refused to sign the request. But I bet
if it comes to public safety and a neighborhood wide electricity
problem, they have the right to trim any tree that they deem necessary
during an arcing event.

I spoke with my son last night in his dad's NYC apartment. They were
sitting in the dark with candles. No juice is no fun!

Best -- Gae

Rusty Mase wrote:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:50:34 GMT, animaux
wrote:

I would like to see it.

Most of these rules are in the City's Environmental Criteria Manual
which may be located at:
www.amlegal.com/austin_techmanuals/

Or you can find it at the City's website:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/watershed/regulation.htm
linked at the bottom of the page.

Section 3 of the ECM concerns tree protection.

Rusty Mase

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:59:09 -0500, G a e X a v i e r
wrote:

I spoke with my son last night in his dad's NYC apartment. They were
sitting in the dark with candles. No juice is no fun!

Trees come second to human health and safety as the cottonwoods at
Deep Eddy prove. And trees and electricty are frequently at odds.
But ice storms, trees and powerlines are probably the worst
combination.

Rusty Mase

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:31:04 -0500, Rusty Mase wrote:

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:59:09 -0500, G a e X a v i e r
wrote:

I spoke with my son last night in his dad's NYC apartment. They were
sitting in the dark with candles. No juice is no fun!

Trees come second to human health and safety as the cottonwoods at
Deep Eddy prove. And trees and electricty are frequently at odds.
But ice storms, trees and powerlines are probably the worst
combination.

Rusty Mase

Yes, and now they have discovered a much more cost efficient way of doing
things. Underground! Of course there's always someone like me who is accident
prone who will stick a shovel directly into the conduit in the ground and get
electrocuted

V

Now, Victoria. A sharp shooter won't thatttt. I ran my underground 1
foot inside my property line on the east side. I won't forget where it
is. pretty thickwall condiut.

JK

animaux wrote: =


Yes, and now they have discovered a much more cost efficient way of doi=
ng
things. Underground! Of course there's always someone like me who is a=
ccident
prone who will stick a shovel directly into the conduit in the ground a=
nd get
electrocuted
=

V
-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

You are not kidding! Raise your deductible and keep quiet about
insurance to anyone. Pay the small
claims yourself. Everytime you sneeze, it goes on a CLUE report.

NOW ,the other HOT topic is:

C.L.O.U.T. Newsletter August 16, 2003

By the Numbers:

Total Size =96 12,000+ members

Donations through July 31, 2003 =96 over $55,000

Donating members : over 500 =96 yet less than 5% of the total registered
C.L.O.U.T. membership.

Dear C.L.O.U.T. Members and supporters:

Thanks to you, C.L.O.U.T. has gained strength, size, and most
importantly =96 political momentum these last 2 months. In
early June C.L.O.U.T. matured from a group of concerned citizens
fighting for property tax reform to a growing and
widely funded State Political Action Committee (PAC). What does this
mean? C.L.O.U.T. can now take it=92s place of
influence in the State Legislature =96 not only as a vocal group of
activists =96 but as an organization formed to change the
political process and excerpt political influence (or =93clout=94 if you
will!) in Austin.

As House Bill 3223 passed the House and made its way to the Senate last
May, strong influential lobbying groups
representing our local cities and counties used all of their political
muscle to kill this bill by overwhelming the individual
Senators and their staffs. Why? Because they don=92t want any limit on
their budget growth. Despite the fact that our bill
still allowed their budget by appraisal value to grow at 5% compounded =96=

it wasn=92t enough! They wanted the existing
10% growth despite record increases in Houston and Dallas. When they
killed the bill =96 they sealed their own fate. =

Why? Let me explain.

In June the Texas Association of Counties (TAC) held a statewide seminar
in Houston where one of the lobbyists =96 Sue
Glover =96 expressed her =93thanks=94 to all the people who helped =93kil=
l HB
3223=94. Bad mistake Sue. By making that
statement =96 she alerted C.L.O.U.T. to their lobbying and an ensuing bit=

of investigation. We found: TAC is a statewide
=93co-op insurance group=94 for counties to pool their employee insurance=
,
risk, and workman=92s comp. They reported assets
in excess of $240 million this year =96 and keep a lobby force of 10
people =96 all paid =96 all full time. We calculate their
lobby expenses at over $1 million per year. So TAC has been fighting
you =96 the property owner =96 with your OWN
money. The individual counties use your tax dollars to fund TAC which
in turn fights property tax reform! What=92s their
weakness? Their board and president are all elected officials=85.who hav=
e
to answer for TAC=92s actions.

The next few days all =93heck=94 broke loose as KSEV exposed this
arrangement and demanded that local Constable Bill
Bailey come on the radio and explain why the organization he is
PRESIDENT of is lobbying against his own constituents! =

During the exchange =96 Bailey claimed that counties need more money
because they are given =93unfunded mandates=94 from
the State. Well Bill =96 what do you think a property tax increase is? =

It=92s an UNFUNDED MANDATE to each of us from
the taxing districts. Bailey must have thought he lost the argument
because C.L.O.U.T. got a phone call from the Harris
County District Attorney who had received a =93complaint=94 against it fo=
r
fundraising on the radio. Within 24 hours that
complaint was dismissed and the battle lines have been drawn. That next
day KSEV promised =93equal time=94 to any
elected official or lobbyist for a city or county group to come on and
explain why they need the 10% growth in taxes out
of your pocket. The microphone is open=85.and waiting.

As of today =96 no elected official will speak against C.L.O.U.T. or the
5% cap on appraisals. Using the size and influence
of C.L.O.U.T. and the ever growing funds in the PAC =96 we intend to
present a statewide unbeatable campaign to drive this
5% cap right through the legislature and into State Law. Apparently the
local elected officials have withdrawn from the
battlefield on this one. Now the statewide elected offices are taking
notice and suddenly their doors are =93wide open=94 to
C.L.O.U.T.

Two weeks ago I met with State Representative Dwayne Bohac and his staff
to begin this push. Rep. Bohac and I got
immediate appointments with the Speaker=92s Chief of Staff and with the
Lt. Governor personally. Both the Speaker and the
Lt. Governor believe this Appraisal Cap will pass in the special session
dealing with School Finance early in 2004. =

They even offered some solid advice on expanding C.L.O.U.T.=92s influence=

at the capitol. While the meetings were
positive and cordial =96 they got the clear message that C.L.O.U.T. was
now a PAC and was in this battle for the long term. =


In the meantime, C.L.O.U.T. will continue to grow in members and
finances. Our next move is to involve a radio station
in Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin. The property tax crisis has hit all
of Texas and Dallas has experienced a bigger
increase than Houston! So our message will become a =93statewide=94
message. Our support will cover all of the major
metropolitan areas of Texas. In this way =96it will be impossible for
committee members and chairman from Dallas or San
Antonio to =93sit on our bill=94. =


What do I need you to do? First and foremost =96 expand C.L.O.U.T. by
involving your neighbors and co-workers. =

Forward this email to all of your contacts. Print out copies and take
them to work with you. Encourage all to go to our
website: www.clouttexas.com and sign up!!!

Second =96 support C.L.O.U.T. with a check. Make your personal check (NO=
T
CORPORATE!) check out to: C.L.O.U.T.
and mail it to:

C.L.O.U.T. PAC

P.O. Box 19030-151

Houston Texas 77224-9030

How much should you send? Well, look at your property tax bill. What
would it save you to stop this record growth? =

We have received stacks of checks for $1,000 and $500. Members have
sent what they could =96 some sent $250 =96 some
$25. But the best story are the notes of encouragement attached to the
checks. We have sent an acknowledgment card to
each and every donor =96 many with my personal note thanking them for
their support. I must tell you =96 your trust and
support are humbling to me. I consider my position an honor.

Here is my pledge to all who support C.L.O.U.T.: We will use 100% of
our member=92s contribution for advertising,
mailings, radio ads, and influence. All of the administrative costs of
C.L.O.U.T. will be paid by Edd Hendee, Dan
Patrick, and Paul Bettencourt so that YOUR MONEY will go to the fight
for property tax reform. By the way =96not one
dime of your contributions has been spent! =


Last week C.L.O.U.T. filed its first State Ethics Committee report =96 an=
d
now every politician and lobby group can see
firsthand what C.L.O.U.T. is all about! It=92s about 12,000+ members. =

It=92s about voters. It=92s about wide financial support
focused on one goal =96 Property Tax Reform. Let me tell you this =96
everyone I come in contact with who is political
knows about C.L.O.U.T. and fully understands YOUR commitment!

In the next month I hope to have our new radio station partners
onboard. As we get ready for the fight in the next special
session =96 we will seek to have every elected official sign a pledge of
support for C.L.O.U.T.=92s property tax cap
proposal. If they refuse or stall =96 then YOU WILL KNOW ABOUT IT LONG
BEFORE THE MARCH PRIMARY
ELECTION. And we will pick an election or two to participate in=85.in a
big way. To our elected officials =96 make no
mistake about it =96 C.L.O.U.T. is here to stay =96 and to get this job
DONE!

Thank you for all of your support =96 and please =96 keep C.L.O.U.T.
growing!! Stay tuned to KSEV AM 700 for updates and
CLOUT action!

Edd Hendee

Executive Director/Treasurer

C.L.O.U.T.

www.clouttexas.com

Continuing Update on Website:

The size and information demands of CLOUT have caused us to move our
website to a new design/host firm. After a 2
hour meeting with them today =96 we have designed a website which will
give YOU the most information and access to
CLOUT, your individual property tax account, and our legislative
contacts. We should have this up and running in a
couple of weeks =96 so stay tuned to KSEV in the meantime and I=92ll emai=
l
you when the new site is up!

Thanks for your patience and feedback!

Edd

G a e X a v i e r wrote:
=

Forget about your home insurance. Do not even think about calling them!=

=

Example: Ice storm last year or was it 2001? Oh well... you remember it=
I'm
sure.
=

I had trees knocked down all over my property and neighbor's property. =
My
neighbor's tree (roots on her side, trunk and limbs crossed over to my =
side)
fell down plus a bunch of others all around.
=

So I called Nationwide, my insurer. Wrong!! The trees are not insured,=
only
if they fell and smashed the side of my house. So they did nothing and =
I got
a ding on my CLUE report, which is like your home insurance credit repo=
rt
from just asking the question.
=

They spent nothing, did nothing, but I have one strike against me when =
and if
I sell my house to have it insured by the new buyers.
=

And NEVER call on a water claim. Those are the worst to overcome on you=
r CLUE
report. Better to get a plumber, some bleach and a fan than call your i=
nsurer
over a burst pipe or leaking washing machine or hot water heater leak.
=

DO NOT EVER call your insurance company with your name and/or policy nu=
mber
and a question. The information will go into your CLUE report and will =
be
considered an "insurance claim", even if they did nothing and it did no=
t cost
the insurance company a dime.
=

You wonder how long a group of insurance companies can do well in busin=
ess
with this sort of PR nightmare that they have initiated against us Texa=
s
homeowners. Even if it did scrape the roof, I suggest that you just ge=
t a
roofer out there and pay for the patch rather than call the insurance c=
ompany
to cover it. And yes, I am fairly sure that it is the owner where the l=
imbs
are that have to keep the limbs trimmed, not where the base of the tree=
is.
=

It is not worth it to have a mark against your home insurance, because =
it can
cost you more in the long run (increased rates or unable for a new buye=
r to
insure your home), than you get back from the repairs they may pay for.=

=

Best to All -- Gae
=

jac wrote:
=

The basic law is:
it's on my property, I can do what I want. It is legal, without permi=
ssion
to cut any part of the tree that invades your property. Another issue=
they
need to be aware of, the owner of the part of the tree that's not on =
your
"friends" property, (ie: the property that the tree is rooted on) is =
NOT
responsible for any damage that extending limbs cause. I've, in the p=
ast,
warned neighbors to cut limbs from MY trees that were hanging over th=
eir
house. Your friends need to know that's what insurance is for.

whit wrote:

I've a friend who has a neighbor who is threatening legal BS if he
doesn't remove a tree that she claims the roots of which are causin=
g her
house foundation problems. She also says the branches of this tree
damaged her house in the recent wind storms.

They live way up north, in the west Round Rock/ Williamson county a=
rea.
I told him that the problems were hers and she was nuts to ask him =
to
remove the tree, but she claims to have spoken to a lawyer. I sugge=
sted
he contact an arborist.

I also mentioned that the property line was the dividing line for t=
ree
limbs and roots, anything on her side of the fence was hers and her=

responsibility...but I'm wondering, is that a local law, a state la=
w or
even a law at all?

Comments, suggestions?

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

You don't know me! I will find it with a shovel and slash through it, heft and
all! I already did that with the big satellite dish wires.


On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:53:43 -0500, J Kolenovsky wrote:

Now, Victoria. A sharp shooter won't thatttt. I ran my underground 1
foot inside my property line on the east side. I won't forget where it
is. pretty thickwall condiut.

JK

animaux wrote:

Yes, and now they have discovered a much more cost efficient way of doing
things. Underground! Of course there's always someone like me who is accident
prone who will stick a shovel directly into the conduit in the ground and get
electrocuted

V