All,

Thanks for providing any input to help me select the better contractor
in Austin..

Please see my post he

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...f bd39302f78e

Jon

"merc" wrote in message
oups.com...
All,

Thanks for providing any input to help me select the better contractor
in Austin..

Please see my post he

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...f bd39302f78e

Jon

Jon,

I'll reply here if you don't mind. I prefer not to sign up for 'Google
Groups'...

Al Hanke


original poster_______________From Google Groups______________
All,


I live near Austin, TX and I'm currently gathering quotes from
irrigation companies in my area.


My questions a


1. Is Rainbird better than Hunter or Toro?

[Al Hanke] I've been installing irrigation systems since 1983. I started
out with Rainbird, later used Toro but ended up with
Hunter about ten years ago. Most systems are not installed using all one
brand however. Some companies simply use the
cheapest parts they can get. Some use a combination of parts that are easy
to obtain and service.

I work for a small company now, but when I had my own
business I used Hunter heads, Richdel valves and
either Toro or Hunter controllers. The company I am presently working for
uses Hunter for the most part - valves, heads and
controllers.

Is one brand better than the other? In terms of quality
I would say no. They are all good companies
producing good products. The irrigation industry has come a long way in the
last twenty years in terms of technological improvements
and quality of product offerings. Rainbird tend to be a little more
expensive than the other lines.


2. What about the vavles and brands?

[Al Hanke] All of the brands are of good quality. I believe the most
important aspect is sizing the components
correctly. A good one inch valve works fine in most residential
applications.

Toro used to make such a wide range of valves with
different diaphram assemplies, different solenoids,
etc. Servicing Toro valves was nightmare. Today there is a lot more
standardization within the different product lines.


3. Why do I need a backflow prevention system?

[Al Hanke] You need a backflow preventor to protect your water supply,
whether it be a well, a lake, a private
purveyor or a municipality. These are required by law and governed by local
ordinances. A backflow preventor allows water to
travel in only one direction through the pipes - from the source to the
heads and out into the landscape.

Irrigation systems are potential points of contamination
of the public water supply because of the use of
insecticides and herbicides in the landscape. Backflow preventors help to
protect all of us from inadvertent poisoning due to
contaminated water.


4. How far should they bury the pipes? 6 inches? 8 inches?

[Al Hanke] In this area 6 inches to 12 inches is common. Lateral lines are
commonly installed at about 6 inches and mainlines
at about 10 to 12 inches. Keep in mind we have a lot of rock in the soil
here and we are not subject to freezing as areas
further north are.


5. What diameter (OD and ID) pipe and brand/type pipe is considered
good? (I've read where people's pipes break so i'm concerened)

[Al Hanke] Class pipe has been the industry standard in this area for as
long I have been installing systems - 22 years now.
In all this time I've had only one person insist on Schedule pipe even
though I told him it wasn't necessary.

Pipes generally don't break unless there is some other
problem. The pipe may have been old and left
laying in the sun for a very long time and become brittle. This would be a
very rare situation but a remote possibility none the
less.

Excessive rocks could be used in the backfill operation
and then, if an area is subject to heavy traffic, ie.
vehicles or equipment, an incident could occur. Also, simply burying pipes
in an area that is subject to vehicle traffic could
cause a pipe to break. This should be avoided or the pipe(s) placed in
large diameter sleeves.


Any other things that I should look out for would be greatly
appreciated. Such as:


1. better quality brands
2. things to ask the bidding companies
3. things to watch out for such as thin pipes and other bad practices
4. any other information you feel needs to be shared.

[Al Hanke] I think the length a company or installer has been practicing
irrigation installation, quality of other projects
and references are all legitimate and recomended questions to ask of your
potential bidders.

Keep in mind, the biggest, busiest companies and the
cheapest companies are not always (and in most cases
are not) the best. I personally know of companies that have gone by the
wayside now who, at one time, were some of the busiest
companies in town. The problem was, they were busy because they put in
cheap systems for cheap prices. Believe me, I've seen some really poor work
over the years...


thanks everyone


Jon


end of original post and replys______________________________



We'd be happy to look at your site and make some recomendations and give you
a quote on a new system Jon. Give me a call. I'm available M - F, 8 to 5.

Al Hanke
H2Ecoscape
512-914-2614

I'm getting conflicting information about the use of schedule 40 pipes
and sprinkler systems. Where I'm located there isn't any rocks so is
schedule 40 needed? Will the thinner stuff break in 5 years?

Jon

After many hours of research (days, my wife may say) on plastic pipe, I
discovered that Schedule 40 pipe only means that it has the same physical
dimensions as metal pipe of the same inside diameter (I.D.). It is possible
to have a Schedule 40 pipe which is weak. Indeed at the local handyman
center you can often find Schedeule 40 pipe which is for low pressure use
only, and Schedeule 40 pipe which can pressurized. The advantage to this
approach is that the vender only has to stock one size of connectors for
each I.D. pipe. The disadvantage is that Schedule pipe is typically very
heavy for its performance and wasteful of raw material. Class is a method of
grouping pipe by working pressure. Neither Schedule nor Class directly
specifies the impact strength, which was one of your concerns. The only way
to discover that is to look up the full specification of the pipe or to
visit the manunfacter's web site. Plastic pipe and plastic tubing are
treated differently, making matters even more confusing.

Typically, properly assembled and buried plastic pipe will not deteriorate.
Only disturbances, like driving over it, will cause a problem. It doesn't
take much to protect plastic pipe from the weight of a car. Heavier
vehicles like dump trucks and tractors might crack a buried pipe. UV light
is the primary ememy of most plastic pipe, and buried pipe is, of course,
protected from UV. Here is a trick: put some iron rebar in the trench with
the plastic pipe so you can find it later with a metal dector rather than a
pick axe :-)

This is a web site that has some basic landscape irrigation terminology:

http://www.multiservices.4t.com/terminology.html

Here are a couple of sites which have more than I ever wanted to know about
plastic pipe:

http://www.millardlumber.com/HowTo/plpipe/plastic.htm

http://www.charlottepipe.com/

Personally I have never been impressed by in-ground sprinkler systems. They
always seem to be wasting water and are often too complicated for the
homeowner to control. That aside, if you can locate a good contractor, you
should ask him why certain components are used and go with his
recommendations or find another contractor.

Hope this helps.

jjhnsn

I'm posting at the top because I didn't want to delete any part of
this message. My opinion is more geared to the type of head these
systems use down here in Texas. The "pop up spray." About half the
water evaporates before it reaches the ground with these cheap
sprinkler heads. FAR more effective are impulse heads which go back
and forth and have much larger drops which gives a much more even
watering, and deeper. I would never install pop up heads, ever. So,
if impulse heads are more expensive, it's well worth it.

Victoria


On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 00:27:02 GMT, "James Lee Johnson"
wrote:

After many hours of research (days, my wife may say) on plastic pipe, I
discovered that Schedule 40 pipe only means that it has the same physical
dimensions as metal pipe of the same inside diameter (I.D.). It is possible
to have a Schedule 40 pipe which is weak. Indeed at the local handyman
center you can often find Schedeule 40 pipe which is for low pressure use
only, and Schedeule 40 pipe which can pressurized. The advantage to this
approach is that the vender only has to stock one size of connectors for
each I.D. pipe. The disadvantage is that Schedule pipe is typically very
heavy for its performance and wasteful of raw material. Class is a method of
grouping pipe by working pressure. Neither Schedule nor Class directly
specifies the impact strength, which was one of your concerns. The only way
to discover that is to look up the full specification of the pipe or to
visit the manunfacter's web site. Plastic pipe and plastic tubing are
treated differently, making matters even more confusing.

Typically, properly assembled and buried plastic pipe will not deteriorate.
Only disturbances, like driving over it, will cause a problem. It doesn't
take much to protect plastic pipe from the weight of a car. Heavier
vehicles like dump trucks and tractors might crack a buried pipe. UV light
is the primary ememy of most plastic pipe, and buried pipe is, of course,
protected from UV. Here is a trick: put some iron rebar in the trench with
the plastic pipe so you can find it later with a metal dector rather than a
pick axe :-)

This is a web site that has some basic landscape irrigation terminology:

http://www.multiservices.4t.com/terminology.html

Here are a couple of sites which have more than I ever wanted to know about
plastic pipe:

http://www.millardlumber.com/HowTo/plpipe/plastic.htm

http://www.charlottepipe.com/

Personally I have never been impressed by in-ground sprinkler systems. They
always seem to be wasting water and are often too complicated for the
homeowner to control. That aside, if you can locate a good contractor, you
should ask him why certain components are used and go with his
recommendations or find another contractor.

Hope this helps.

jjhnsn

"Bourne Identity" wrote in message
...
I'm posting at the top because I didn't want to delete any part of
this message. My opinion is more geared to the type of head these
systems use down here in Texas. The "pop up spray." About half the
water evaporates before it reaches the ground with these cheap
sprinkler heads. FAR more effective are impulse heads which go back
and forth and have much larger drops which gives a much more even
watering, and deeper. I would never install pop up heads, ever. So,
if impulse heads are more expensive, it's well worth it.

Victoria


...."half the water evaporates before it reaches the ground"???

If this were true or even close to being true no one would install them,
much less pay to have someone else do it.

A typical spray head with a fifteen foot radius and a 180 degree pattern
emitts and average of 1.75 gallons per minute. These heads tend to cover a
smaller area and be more accurate in their application of water than rotor
heads - either impact or stream rotors. Evaporation is only significant
enough to be of concern when a system is run during the heat of the day,
i.e. mid afternoon. Professional installers, myself included, recomend
running systems early in the morning when wind drift and evaporation factors
are virtually non-existent.

Generally far more water is lost with rotors due to overspray than with
spary heads due to evaporation.

Shut up Victoria!


Al Hanke
Austin, Texas