Hi all!

I'm totally new to gardening and this group, so would appreciate any
help you can give! I've looked through the archive, but can't find
anything completely relevant. So, thanks in advance for any help you
can give!

I'd very much like to plant climbers of some sort on the front and back
walls of my house (a north and a south facing wall). But, the property
has a history of (1) subsidence owing to wisteria on the south-facing
wall abstracting water from the soil causing movement to the property
(London soil), and (2) damage to brickwork from ivy on the north-facing
wall. Apparently, I am going to have to remove both of these climbers.

In the circumstances, can you recommend any climbers that look pretty
covering houses, but which do not increase thw risk of subsidence or
damage to brickwork? Do I need to find different plants, or can I keep
what I have got but (1) pull them off the brickwork and mount them on
trellises set back from the walls and (2) water them a lot!

Many thanks for your thoughts! Sorry if these questions are really
basic!

All the best,

Richard

Dear Richard, These questions are not basic! However it would be
worthwhile consulting the builder or surveyor to ask if it is wise to
replant.
If it is positive then the Ivy would not be a good candidate, trellis
would help if you can grow non clinging plants, i.e. Clematis, Roses or
Solanum. Other varieties come to mind but from the question you have
posed it seems unlikely that planting is an option.
Just to add, the north wall is suitable for Rosa banksia, if you have
the room.
Pot grown plants could overcome the problem.
Another alternernative is to plant away from the house wall and carry
the plant on a trellis to the chosen wall. Tell us what you think!!!!!
Steve.

"Richard M" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all!

I'm totally new to gardening and this group, so would appreciate any
help you can give! I've looked through the archive, but can't find
anything completely relevant. So, thanks in advance for any help you
can give!

I'd very much like to plant climbers of some sort on the front and back
walls of my house (a north and a south facing wall). But, the property
has a history of (1) subsidence owing to wisteria on the south-facing
wall abstracting water from the soil causing movement to the property
(London soil), and (2) damage to brickwork from ivy on the north-facing
wall. Apparently, I am going to have to remove both of these climbers.

In the circumstances, can you recommend any climbers that look pretty
covering houses, but which do not increase thw risk of subsidence or
damage to brickwork? Do I need to find different plants, or can I keep
what I have got but (1) pull them off the brickwork and mount them on
trellises set back from the walls and (2) water them a lot!

Many thanks for your thoughts! Sorry if these questions are really
basic!

All the best,

Richard


I have never heard it suggested (until now) that the roots of Wisteria
would cause subsidence.
I guess in your case there is subsidence already and the wisteria does not
help?

"Rupert" wrote in message
...

"Richard M" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all!

I'm totally new to gardening and this group, so would appreciate any
help you can give! I've looked through the archive, but can't find
anything completely relevant. So, thanks in advance for any help you
can give!

I'd very much like to plant climbers of some sort on the front and back
walls of my house (a north and a south facing wall). But, the property
has a history of (1) subsidence owing to wisteria on the south-facing
wall abstracting water from the soil causing movement to the property
(London soil), and (2) damage to brickwork from ivy on the north-facing
wall. Apparently, I am going to have to remove both of these climbers.

In the circumstances, can you recommend any climbers that look pretty
covering houses, but which do not increase thw risk of subsidence or
damage to brickwork? Do I need to find different plants, or can I keep
what I have got but (1) pull them off the brickwork and mount them on
trellises set back from the walls and (2) water them a lot!

Many thanks for your thoughts! Sorry if these questions are really
basic!

All the best,

Richard


I have never heard it suggested (until now) that the roots of Wisteria
would cause subsidence.
I guess in your case there is subsidence already and the wisteria does not
help?

Well Wisteria do like moisture, but I would have thought it would have to be
of some size to cause damage (I have heard of them pulling down the fronts
of houses as they can weight a lot when 100+ years old!) As Rupert suggests
maybe there was/is subsidence anyway and the Wisteria is getting the blame!
Is it a case of a surveyor covering himself or can you see there is a
problem?
Personally I would put up with quite a lot of problems to keep an
established Wisteria, but then my house has no foundations at all :~)
Trellises work, and climbers such as Clematis would never undermine or do
damage, but you can not expect a big climber to do a good job over the long
term in a pot, they need to be in the ground but they can as has been
suggested be planted at some distance then bridged across to the wall with
an arch or somesuch.
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

"Richard M" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all!

I'm totally new to gardening and this group, so would appreciate any
help you can give! I've looked through the archive, but can't find
anything completely relevant. So, thanks in advance for any help you
can give!

I'd very much like to plant climbers of some sort on the front and back
walls of my house (a north and a south facing wall). But, the property
has a history of (1) subsidence owing to wisteria on the south-facing
wall abstracting water from the soil causing movement to the property
(London soil), and (2) damage to brickwork from ivy on the north-facing
wall. Apparently, I am going to have to remove both of these climbers.


On the north side of our house we have Boston Ivy, (Parthenocissus
tricuspidata), it clings by suckers to
the face of the brickwork. It doesn't do any damage I'm aware
of, and all the maintenance it gets is once a year (soon, if the weather
turns mild) I cut it off at the level of the top of the ground floor
windows. Once cut, you can just pull it off, gently does it and you can get
the whole length of it. It does spread all over the front of the house, and
head for next
doors if not cut back.

It looks fantastic when the foliage turns a rich reddish brown in autumn,
and birds love to roost in it through the summer, they usually disappear at
a rate of knots when the front door is opened, the Mrs jumps out of her skin
every time, she never learns. :-))

The only slight downside is in late autumn, after the red/brown display, the
leaves fall off the leaf stalks, leaving the stalks sticking out like
bristles and it looks really stupid until the stalks also fall off.

HTH
Steve

"shazzbat" wrote in message
...

"Richard M" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi all!

I'm totally new to gardening and this group, so would appreciate any
help you can give! I've looked through the archive, but can't find
anything completely relevant. So, thanks in advance for any help you
can give!

I'd very much like to plant climbers of some sort on the front and back
walls of my house (a north and a south facing wall). But, the property
has a history of (1) subsidence owing to wisteria on the south-facing
wall abstracting water from the soil causing movement to the property
(London soil), and (2) damage to brickwork from ivy on the north-facing
wall. Apparently, I am going to have to remove both of these climbers.


On the north side of our house we have Boston Ivy, (Parthenocissus
tricuspidata), it clings by suckers to
the face of the brickwork. It doesn't do any damage I'm aware
of, and all the maintenance it gets is once a year (soon, if the weather
turns mild) I cut it off at the level of the top of the ground floor
windows. Once cut, you can just pull it off, gently does it and you can
get the whole length of it. It does spread all over the front of the
house, and head for next
doors if not cut back.

It looks fantastic when the foliage turns a rich reddish brown in autumn,
and birds love to roost in it through the summer, they usually disappear
at
a rate of knots when the front door is opened, the Mrs jumps out of her
skin
every time, she never learns. :-))

The only slight downside is in late autumn, after the red/brown display,
the
leaves fall off the leaf stalks, leaving the stalks sticking out like
bristles and it looks really stupid until the stalks also fall off.

HTH
Steve


Also a beautiful description of my Boston Ivy.
I have already commented on the Wisteria but I might now add that the only
damage an ivy will do is to already poor pointing and brickwork. If the wall
is in good condition then an ivy will do no harm .

On 28/12/05 11:27, in article
, "Richard M"
wrote:

snip
But, the property
has a history of (1) subsidence owing to wisteria on the south-facing
wall abstracting water from the soil causing movement to the property
(London soil), and (2) damage to brickwork from ivy on the north-facing
wall. Apparently, I am going to have to remove both of these climbers.

In the circumstances, can you recommend any climbers that look pretty
covering houses, but which do not increase thw risk of subsidence or
damage to brickwork?
snip

Hello, Richard. You'll get lots of suggestions and debates about what suits
you best but if in doubt, go for trellis with things going up it. You could
have Clematis armandii which is evergreen, as long as your area doesn't get
severe frosts, Holboellia coriacea, also evergreen, Lonicera (honeysuckles)
roses and probably quite a lot of others. Once the brickwork is in good
condition again, using trellis probably increases the range of different
plants you can use. And I'm sure this group will come up with a multitude
of ideas as to what they could be.
Our house is slate shingle clad on some aspects and we've had to take down a
Wisteria which was getting under the slates and causing a lot of potential
damage, so I sympathise. But IME, builders hate plants on house walls so do
be absolutely certain it's the plants that need removing and not a builder's
personal prejudice. ;-)

--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Thank you very much, everyone, for your thoughts and experiences. It
sounds very much like I need to do more investigating as to what the
real source of the problem is. It had not occurred to me that the
matter may have been oversimplified. In answer to your questions, the
position (as I have been told it by varying structural professionals)
is that there is some very minor subsidence to the south-facing
wistera-clad front wall. This is said to be due to a nearby acacia
tree drying out the soil (others have identified it as a rowan or a
rabinia - I am no expert). But, as a result, I have been asked to
remove all vegetation, namely acacia, wisteria and leylandia. From
what you are saying, it sounds like the wisteria may be being blamed
for the tree's activities. I obviously need to get this clarified.
Any suggestions who may be an appropriate professional to do this?

I am pleased the ivy on the south wall is probably okay. I shall get
the bricks checked, just to be safe.

I do very much like the sound of the Boston ivy, and I shall
investigate it along with clematis, holboellia, honeysuckles, roses,
and the other suggestions. They all sound very attractive! I had not
realised there was so much choice!

I am not going to get a chance to do anything until early February.
Will that be a good time of year to do any planting.maintenance, if
necessary?

All the best, and thank you again for your thoughts,

Richard

On 29/12/05 9:48 am, in article
, "Richard M"
wrote:

Thank you very much, everyone, for your thoughts and experiences. It
sounds very much like I need to do more investigating as to what the
real source of the problem is. It had not occurred to me that the
matter may have been oversimplified. In answer to your questions, the
position (as I have been told it by varying structural professionals)
is that there is some very minor subsidence to the south-facing
wistera-clad front wall. This is said to be due to a nearby acacia
tree drying out the soil (others have identified it as a rowan or a
rabinia - I am no expert). But, as a result, I have been asked to
remove all vegetation, namely acacia, wisteria and leylandia. From
what you are saying, it sounds like the wisteria may be being blamed
for the tree's activities. I obviously need to get this clarified.
Any suggestions who may be an appropriate professional to do this?


Personally and admittedly without seeing it, I'm guessing the acacia if by
that, you mean a mimosa. I really do doubt a wisteria could do THAT much
damage at its roots. Certainly, this house had a very large, old mimosa
tree on one corner that had to be taken down as its roots were becoming too
large.
I think I'd get a surveyor, your builder and a tree surgeon there together
and get their joint and several opinions. At the very least you might get
agreement on the cause of the problem and the way to tackle it, with
everyone reading from the same script! To find out what the mystery tree
is, try a Google image search on Rowan, Robinia pseudoacacia and Acacia or
mimosa.

--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Janet Baraclough wrote:
The message .com
from "Richard M" contains these words:

Thank you very much, everyone, for your thoughts and experiences. It
sounds very much like I need to do more investigating as to what the
real source of the problem is. It had not occurred to me that the
matter may have been oversimplified. In answer to your questions, the
position (as I have been told it by varying structural professionals)
is that there is some very minor subsidence to the south-facing
wistera-clad front wall. This is said to be due to a nearby acacia
tree drying out the soil (others have identified it as a rowan or a
rabinia - I am no expert). But, as a result, I have been asked to
remove all vegetation, namely acacia, wisteria and leylandia. From
what you are saying, it sounds like the wisteria may be being blamed
for the tree's activities. I obviously need to get this clarified.
Any suggestions who may be an appropriate professional to do this?

I think you need to speak to your buildings-insurance company and get
their view on that. If they don't yet know about the subsidence, you're
obliged to notify them; not to do so might invalidate your policy. They
are almost certainly going to require a specialist report, and it will
probably be cheaper in the long run to obtain one from a professional
body acceptable to the insurer.(Rather than commission one yourself
which doesn't satisfy them). The insurer is also likely to set some
conditions on future plantings around, and on, the building.

If it was mine, I'd want to keep that structure in full unobstructed
view for at least a few years, rather than risk climbers covering up new
signs of movement.

The trees on your land may also affect neighbouring buildings. Which
is another reason why you need a professional specialist report (for
your own future protection). Don't rush out and chop the trees down
before you have that report. In some circumstances where clay shrinkage
due to tree roots has caused building movement, a specialist will
recommend gradual reduction of the tree to avoid a sudden re-expansion
of the clay putting more stress on the foundations.

Janet

Thank, everyone - that is all _really_ helpful advice. I've plainly
got my work cut out for me!! I appreciate your time and thoughts.
Thanks.

All best wishes,

Richard M

Nobody's mentioned passiflora, commonly known as Passion Flower. This is a gentle soul, and has the advantage over clematis in being evergreen.

We planted an 18" sapling of this against a tatty hedge back in June, and it has grown to about 6 foot by 5 foot across, completely covering a large hole in the hedge. Never seen anything grow so fast, and need so little attention (apart from guiding its growth directions of course).

It also has nice little white & purple flowers as an added bonus.

Forgot to mention the foliage is quite similar to ivy ( although the S/O insists it's not! ) but it's any ivy-sized dark-green shiny leaf, and looks very attractive in a drab winter garden where much of everything else is looking a bit sad - choisiya excepted of course.