Derek wrote:

snip

I hate to burst your bubble on this issue, Jon, but I'm not
sure that her real name IS Lesley anyway.

He tends to go off half-cocked, leap to assumptions, and then refuse
to modify his wild statements.

Why do you help him anyway? He has never said a kind -- or even
vaguely civil -- word to, or about, you, ever. He has cynically
used you as his cat's-paw to avoid dirtying his hands directly
with things you *know* are wrong. What kind of masochistic
pleasure do you get out of abasing yourself to lick his boots?

You are better than that. Stand up and be a man, Derek.

snip

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:46:35 -0700, Glorfindel wrote:

Derek wrote:

snip

I hate to burst your bubble on this issue, Jon, but I'm not
sure that her real name IS Lesley anyway.

He tends to go off half-cocked, leap to assumptions, and then refuse
to modify his wild statements.

Why do you help him anyway?

How is putting reasonable doubt into his mind over
something he felt so certain over, helping him, you
idiot? Read what I wrote again. It's only on my
suggestion and the way I went about deducing her
name that she kind of acknowledged it as Lesley.
She has never announced to me or declared in any
way that her name IS Lesley. She acknowledged
it on the basis of the method I used to deduce it as
follows;

"I put it to her that her real name had to start
with "Le", because both her Usenet nyms began
with an "L" followed by a vowel.

lotus
lilweed

And so I called her "Lesley", to which she replied,
"Lesley it is then."

As we can see, she accepted my conclusion based
on the method I used, not that she was in fact called
Lesley. I didn't help him; I've just burst his bubble.

He has never said a kind -- or even
vaguely civil -- word to, or about, you, ever.

And what makes him different from everyone else I
know? If I stopped talking to everyone who hates
me, I wouldn't have anyone to talk to.

He has cynically
used you as his cat's-paw to avoid dirtying his hands directly
with things you *know* are wrong.

You'll have to expand on that.

What kind of masochistic
pleasure do you get out of abasing yourself to lick his boots?

How is bursting his bubble licking his boots? If Pearl's
name really IS Lesley, then she'll have the pleasure in
knowing Jon can never know that for sure. If her name
isn't Lesley, then she has the drop on both of us and is
laughing her tits off. What's got into you?

You are better than that. Stand up and be a man, Derek.

snip

Derek wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:46:35 -0700, Glorfindel wrote:

Why do you help him anyway?

How is putting reasonable doubt into his mind over
something he felt so certain over, helping him, you
idiot?

I wasn't referring just to that.

snip

He has never said a kind -- or even
vaguely civil -- word to, or about, you, ever.

And what makes him different from everyone else I
know? If I stopped talking to everyone who hates
me, I wouldn't have anyone to talk to.

It's unfortunate you feel that way. There are certainly
more pleasant and reasonable people to talk to. I, for
one, don't hate you, and there are others who also do
not.

He has cynically
used you as his cat's-paw to avoid dirtying his hands directly
with things you *know* are wrong.

You'll have to expand on that.

You know.

snip

You are better than that. Stand up and be a man, Derek.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:35:10 -0700, Glorfindel wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:46:35 -0700, Glorfindel wrote:

Why do you help him anyway?

How is putting reasonable doubt into his mind over
something he felt so certain over, helping him, you
idiot?

I wasn't referring just to that.

Well, that's exactly all I was doing here.

snip

He has never said a kind -- or even
vaguely civil -- word to, or about, you, ever.

And what makes him different from everyone else I
know? If I stopped talking to everyone who hates
me, I wouldn't have anyone to talk to.

It's unfortunate you feel that way.

Of course I don't. What I'm trying to say is that I find
nothing wrong in getting on with people who sometimes
lose their rag with me. I'm currently offering to help him
fix the ABS on his bike, but I'd be damned before I let
him whip me in an argument I might raise with him
without a good fight.

There are certainly
more pleasant and reasonable people to talk to. I, for
one, don't hate you, and there are others who also do
not.

If you don't hate or ignore me for the things I've said and
done to you, how can you criticise me for not hating or
ignoring Jon for the things he's said and done to me? Our
issue was far more serious than just the name-calling and
abuse I get from Jon, and yet you say you don't hate me.
Why can you not see that I don't hate Jon for an even
lesser assault? I'm sorry, but I don't see what you're
getting at this time.

He has cynically
used you as his cat's-paw to avoid dirtying his hands directly
with things you *know* are wrong.

You'll have to expand on that.

You know.

No, sorry, I don't. He's a chicken hawk and no mistake, but
he's never been able to make a recruit out of me, despite
his efforts.

snip

You are better than that. Stand up and be a man, Derek.

Derek wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:35:10 -0700, Glorfindel wrote:

Derek wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:46:35 -0700, Glorfindel wrote:

Why do you help him anyway?

How is putting reasonable doubt into his mind over
something he felt so certain over, helping him, you
idiot?

I wasn't referring just to that.


Well, that's exactly all I was doing here.


snip

He has never said a kind -- or even
vaguely civil -- word to, or about, you, ever.

And what makes him different from everyone else I
know? If I stopped talking to everyone who hates
me, I wouldn't have anyone to talk to.

It's unfortunate you feel that way.


Of course I don't. What I'm trying to say is that I find
nothing wrong in getting on with people who sometimes
lose their rag with me. I'm currently offering to help him
fix the ABS on his bike,

And thanks for your help! Current status: I tried to
jam the loose sensor cable more firmly back into the
sensor housing yesterday, and rode the motorcycle to
work (about 25 miles) and back without the ABS lights
flashing. I'm pretty well convinced it's the problem.
I should still probably remove, repair and replace
the connection, as it undoubtedly will work loose again.


but I'd be damned before I let
him whip me in an argument I might raise with him
without a good fight.


There are certainly
more pleasant and reasonable people to talk to. I, for
one, don't hate you, and there are others who also do
not.


If you don't hate or ignore me for the things I've said and
done to you, how can you criticise me for not hating or
ignoring Jon for the things he's said and done to me? Our
issue was far more serious than just the name-calling and
abuse I get from Jon, and yet you say you don't hate me.
Why can you not see that I don't hate Jon for an even
lesser assault? I'm sorry, but I don't see what you're
getting at this time.


He has cynically
used you as his cat's-paw to avoid dirtying his hands directly
with things you *know* are wrong.

You'll have to expand on that.

You know.


No, sorry, I don't. He's a chicken hawk and no mistake, but
he's never been able to make a recruit out of me, despite
his efforts.


snip

You are better than that. Stand up and be a man, Derek.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:04:10 GMT, Leif Erikson wrote:

Derek wrote:

I'm currently offering to help him fix the ABS on his bike,

And thanks for your help! Current status: I tried to
jam the loose sensor cable more firmly back into the
sensor housing yesterday, and rode the motorcycle to
work (about 25 miles) and back without the ABS lights
flashing. I'm pretty well convinced it's the problem.
I should still probably remove, repair and replace
the connection, as it undoubtedly will work loose again.

That would be the best but most expensive way of doing
it. Try to tighten the female side of the connector, clean
it out with some WD40, dry it and insulate it with some
good electrician's tape. Heat-shrink tubing would be better
if you've got something hotter than a hair dryer to shrink
it with once it's in place.

Derek wrote:

snip

If you don't hate or ignore me for the things I've said and
done to you, how can you criticise me for not hating or
ignoring Jon for the things he's said and done to me?

I'm not; I'm just asking why you want to help him after all
the cruel and unkind things he has said and done to you.

Our
issue was far more serious than just the name-calling and
abuse I get from Jon, and yet you say you don't hate me.

No, I don't. I think you are basically a decent person,
and you mean well. I don't hate anyone, not even Slippery.
I do distrust him, and I will never tell him anything about
myself, but that is different.

snip

Glorfindel wrote:

Derek wrote:

snip

If you don't hate or ignore me for the things I've said and done to
you, how can you criticise me for not hating or
ignoring Jon for the things he's said and done to me?


I'm not; I'm just asking why you want to help him after all
the cruel and unkind things he has said and done to you.

Our issue was far more serious than just the name-calling and abuse I
get from Jon, and yet you say you don't hate me.


No, I don't. I think you are basically a decent person,
and you mean well. I don't hate anyone, not even Slippery.
I do distrust him, and I will never tell him anything about
myself, but that is different.

You don't need to tell us anything more about yourself,
Karen - we already know plenty enough.

Slippery Slope wrote:

snip
You don't need to tell us anything more about yourself, Karen - we
already know plenty enough.

Ah, yes...go right on believing that. LOL

Karen Winter wrote:

Slippery Slope wrote:

snip

You don't need to tell us anything more about yourself, Karen - we
already know plenty enough.


Ah, yes...go right on believing that. LOL

We shall, Karen - we shall.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:15:21 -0700, Glorfindel wrote:
Derek wrote:

snip

If you don't hate or ignore me for the things I've said and
done to you, how can you criticise me for not hating or
ignoring Jon for the things he's said and done to me?

I'm not; I'm just asking why you want to help him after all
the cruel and unkind things he has said and done to you.

Where do you get this idea that I'm trying to help him,
anyway? I really can't see what you mean by saying
that. There's no evidence to show that I've ever helped
him, and there's never been a time when he's been in
a position to accept whatever help I'm supposed to be
giving him, either. The only time where I might have been
of some help to him was when I introduced Salt's essay
on the logic of the larder to support an argument Jon had
already arrived at entirely independently by himself years
earlier.

Our
issue was far more serious than just the name-calling and
abuse I get from Jon, and yet you say you don't hate me.

No, I don't.

Thanks.

I think you are basically a decent person,
and you mean well.

And again. I really DO appreciate that. Tell you what,
to get my anti-Jon cred back again, shall I undo Salt's
essay and help Harrison by making an analogy between
"getting to experience life" and opening a bank account?
Both "can have a negative or a positive value", according
to Harrison, and both are a "benefit which makes all
other benefits possible." Both fail to exist unless we invest
something of our own to bring them about, and if I can get
Harrison to believe that such an investment is the morally
correct thing to do concerning livestock animals, Jon will
have a right weird time trying to cope with him after that.
Will that do, or should I spend another ten minutes thinking
up something even worse for him and maybe water tight?
The bank account analogy is just a fancy that came to me
while writing this response to you. I could do a lot better
if I put my mind to it.

I don't hate anyone

I believe that's true.

, not even Slippery.
I do distrust him, and I will never tell him anything about
myself, but that is different.

Ah, now, when have I ever implied that I trust Jon on these
issues? Believe it or not, Jon knows quite a bit about my
private life that would embarrass me considerably in front
of everyone here, and yet he's not even hinted or threatened
to reveal those things, ever.