I've heard that apple trees need to be pruned annually, and that some
care must be taken in how the job is done. Are there any web-sites
that offer advice on the best way to do this?
Thanks,
Gerry [homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc]

Get on the internet and type in "pruning apple trees". You will get a lot
of responses. I would suggest selecting one that is from an agricultural
college.

I prune mine every year to get rid of the dead wood, water spouts (limbs
that go straight up), limbs that grow toward the center of the tree or
toward another branch, and limbs that grow toward the ground.

First I stand back and look at the tree's shape, and imagine what I want it
to look like in 5 years. They I start taking off unwanted wood. Never
remove more than 1/3 of the tree at one years pruning. Keep in mind that
apples grow on second year wood. If you remove off all the new growth
(which is pretty hard to do), you wont have any apples the following year.
I prune all my trees around February 15, while they are dormant and insects
are not around. Sometimes I have to postpone it a few days if the weather
doesn't cooperate, but I always have it done by the end of Feb.

Good luck. Dwayne




wrote in message
...
I've heard that apple trees need to be pruned annually, and that some
care must be taken in how the job is done. Are there any web-sites
that offer advice on the best way to do this?
Thanks,
Gerry [homepage.eircom.net/~gerfmcc]

Dwayne writes

Keep in mind that
apples grow on second year wood. If you remove off all the new growth
(which is pretty hard to do), you wont have any apples the following year.

It's true that they don't fruit on first year wood, but not true that if
you remove all the new growth you won't have apples the next year. On
second year and older, apples build up fruiting spurs, little stubbly
branches about an inch long, which is where the flowers sprout from year
after year. It's these you need to be careful of.

If they flowered only on second year wood, it wouldn't matter how many
of the fruiting spurs you got rid of, because once developed they would
never flower again.

I prune all my trees around February 15, while they are dormant and insects
are not around.

Why the owrry about pruning when there are no insects around?

Sometimes I have to postpone it a few days if the weather
doesn't cooperate, but I always have it done by the end of Feb.

You are, of course, not posting from the UK.

--
Kay

Gerry,
Sorry I don't have a good link to a web site but teh RHS
http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile...plepruning.asp

I can say that the RHS Encyclopedia of Gardening and the RHS book
called Fruit by Harry Baker have good sections on fruit pruning, are
much better and more helpful.

A couple of important things about pruning are often overlooked, or
rather not mentioned.
1. Why are you pruning
2. What is the effect of the pruning cut (rarely explained)
3. What kind of apple tree have you got and how it fruits.
4. Recognise your buds. What a fruit bud looks like and what a growth
bud looks like
suitable link
http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile..._fruit_bud.asp

As far as 3 goes, what kind of tree you are pruning? Most apples are
spur bearers, that is to say they produce the apples on little side
branches spurs. A few are tip beares, such as Crawley Beauty, that
produce fruit at the very tip of the branch. Then there are partial
tip beares - ones that do both. Tip bearers are not suitable for
cordons, as all the summer pruning removes the fruit buds.

Generally, winter pruning is to encourage growth and summer pruning to
promote fruiting. However winter pruning can encourage fruiting.
Nothing is cast in stone when it comes to rules and plant behaviour

Pruning looks to encourage fruiting, maintaining / creating air
movement through the crown or it can be to produce growth, as in
renewal pruning.
If you follow the regular advise for winter pruning, removed dead
diseased, dying, crossing branches and reducing last years leader
growth by 1/3rd you won't go far wrong.
Just remeber that if you have a tip bearer, reducing last years growth
by 1/3rd, removed fruit buds, so will loose fruit! So don't.
Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, South Yorkshire

You need

K wrote:
Dwayne writes

Keep in mind that
apples grow on second year wood. If you remove off all the new growth
(which is pretty hard to do), you wont have any apples the following
year.

It's true that they don't fruit on first year wood, but not true that if
you remove all the new growth you won't have apples the next year. On
second year and older, apples build up fruiting spurs, little stubbly
branches about an inch long, which is where the flowers sprout from year
after year. It's these you need to be careful of.

Isn't there some complication where some apples (and pears) are spur-
bearing and others are tip-bearing? I'm sure the procedure is different
for each, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

Pruning is something of a black art as far as I'm concerned. I
have about twenty apple trees that have been largely neglected since
they were planted fifteen years ago or more. At the moment I'm largely
ignoring fruiting in favour of trying to get them into a reasonable
shape tree. Once that is sorted I'll try to work out which are spur-
bearers and which are tip-bearers, but as I have no idea what variety
most of them are, that'll have to be done by inspection, I guess.

I'm currently trying to recover a quince that is leaning heavily to
one side (about 30 degrees to the horizontal now). Pruned a load of
branches off it today that are making a mess of its neighbouring
Bramley. It's still a mess of a tree though.

James

"K" wrote in message
...
Dwayne writes

I prune all my trees around February 15, while they are dormant and
insects
are not around.

Why the owrry about pruning when there are no insects around?

Some insects gain entry to your fruit trees through "distressed" areas and
some introduce diseases to your trees through open wounds. Other windbourn
diseases can also enter the same way (IE. Fire and cedar blight).

Sometimes I have to postpone it a few days if the weather
doesn't cooperate, but I always have it done by the end of Feb.

You are, of course, not posting from the UK.

No I am not, but I assume you still have cold weather in February and your
trees are dormant. I lived in Germany for 3 years and their winters were
the same as ours. If I am wrong in your case, please correct me.

Dwayne

--
Kay

James Fidell writes
K wrote:
Dwayne writes

Keep in mind that
apples grow on second year wood. If you remove off all the new growth
(which is pretty hard to do), you wont have any apples the following
year.
It's true that they don't fruit on first year wood, but not true
that if you remove all the new growth you won't have apples the next
year. On second year and older, apples build up fruiting spurs, little
stubbly branches about an inch long, which is where the flowers sprout
from year after year. It's these you need to be careful of.

Isn't there some complication where some apples (and pears) are spur-
bearing and others are tip-bearing?

Yes, forgot to mention that. Cliff's covered it well. The overwhelming
majority are spur bearing.

. Once that is sorted I'll try to work out which are spur-
bearers and which are tip-bearers, but as I have no idea what variety
most of them are, that'll have to be done by inspection, I guess.

One of the best ways to learn gardening is 'by inspection', taking time
to observe your plants and the effect of anything you do to them.


--
Kay

Dwayne writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Dwayne writes

I prune all my trees around February 15, while they are dormant and
insects
are not around.

Why the owrry about pruning when there are no insects around?

Some insects gain entry to your fruit trees through "distressed" areas and
some introduce diseases to your trees through open wounds. Other windbourn
diseases can also enter the same way (IE. Fire and cedar blight).

OK. Not all winters in the UK are sufficient to get rid of all insects.
I wouldn't have thought a clean cut would present much of a problem
disease-wise.

Sometimes I have to postpone it a few days if the weather
doesn't cooperate, but I always have it done by the end of Feb.

You are, of course, not posting from the UK.

No I am not, but I assume you still have cold weather in February and your
trees are dormant.

Indeed. It is now nearing the end of March and the trees are still
dormant. "I always have it done by the end of February" gives the
impression that it is now too late to prune, and that the OP has missed
the chance for this year. This is not the case. That's why I pointed out
you were not giving UK experience.

I lived in Germany for 3 years and their winters were
the same as ours. If I am wrong in your case, please correct me.

Our winters are probably wetter and warmer than Germany Our weather is
more changeable (the current prolonged cold spell is uncharacteristic),
and we probably have more cloud cover therefore lower light levels. You
mentioned elsewhere that your winters go down to -20 deg C - this would
be most unusual here, and in the SW there are places which rarely get
any frost.
--
Kay

James,
Do not be put off by pruning, it sounds a lot more complicated than it
really is. Just remeber the advice in the previous post -
If you follow the regular advise for winter pruning, removed dead
diseased, dying, crossing branches and reducing last years leader
growth by 1/3rd you won't go far wrong

What part of the o****ry are you in? Are your trees still dormant. If
so you still have time to prune them.
As your apples haven't been pruned for 15 years they need some
attention. Do you recall what varieties you have got? If you know, I
can tell you which are Tip or Spur bearers.
You would be unlucky to have selected all tip bearers. Most apples are
typically spur bearers.
I know you said that you are looking for fruit, do the trees flower and
produce any fruit?

As far as the quince goes, the lean sounds dramatic. From your
comments it too must be an age. Has the wind blown it over or is it
growing just with a lean? A friend has a Crawley Beauty that has must
have been blown over when young; a good six feet of the trunk lies on
the ground before it goes vertical. Hasn't done it any harm.

If you have any queries, feel free to ask, on or off list

Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, South Yorkshire

cliff_the_gardener wrote:

Do not be put off by pruning, it sounds a lot more complicated than it
really is. Just remeber the advice in the previous post -
If you follow the regular advise for winter pruning, removed dead
diseased, dying, crossing branches and reducing last years leader
growth by 1/3rd you won't go far wrong

So far I've been concentrating on trying to get the structure of the
trees sorted out -- removing crossing branches and opening out the
centre of the tree. Because I don't want to take too much off the
trees at once, I think this may take a few years.

What part of the o****ry are you in? Are your trees still dormant. If
so you still have time to prune them.

We're in west Somerset -- between the Quantocks and Exmoor. There's no
sign of life from the trees yet. We're quite exposed to the north-east
and the winds have been fairly bitter for the last few weeks, so that
might have something to do with it.

As your apples haven't been pruned for 15 years they need some
attention. Do you recall what varieties you have got? If you know, I
can tell you which are Tip or Spur bearers.

I spent some time examining the trees yesterday. I know two are
Bramleys, which I believe are combined tip/spur-bearers. There are
others of uncertain variety that look like they could be persuaded to
be spur-bearing. The previous owners left me a map of these trees which
is clearly wrong, but gives the names:

Annie Elizabeth
Laxtons Epicure
Discovery
Royalty
Howgate Wonder
Cox
Sunset

It's all somewhat confusing: all the trees are on a dwarfing rootstock,
I assume (the trunks are only about two feet tall), but whereas the
Bramleys are still around 20ft high, some of the others aren't even six
feet high and are considerably more spindly. I'm inclined to believe
that some of the trees have been replaced over the years.

Of the cider apples, one is definitely a Yarlington Mill (the bark had
trapped the name tag as it grew). The other thirteen are complete
unknowns.

You would be unlucky to have selected all tip bearers. Most apples are
typically spur bearers.
I know you said that you are looking for fruit, do the trees flower and
produce any fruit?

They do, though the fruit has been fairly small in some cases. I guess
for obvious reasons. Last year the fruiting was very poor, but I put
that down to the very cold and windy period during May when the trees
were in blossom.

As far as the quince goes, the lean sounds dramatic. From your
comments it too must be an age. Has the wind blown it over or is it
growing just with a lean? A friend has a Crawley Beauty that has must
have been blown over when young; a good six feet of the trunk lies on
the ground before it goes vertical. Hasn't done it any harm.

The lean is fairly dramatic, yes It must be at about 45 degrees
to the horizontal now.

I think the tree may not have been suitably staked originally and has
developed the lean as it has grown perhaps because of the wind, or
because the weight of the tree is now largely on one side, or both.

I've not decided whether I'm going to allow it to collapse further if
that happens, or to attempt to prop it in its current position. I
don't have much use for the fruit, but I rather like the tree and I
believe it's quite a favourite with the bees, so as long as it's not
dangerous or causing problems with neighbouring trees I'll do what I
can to keep it going.

James

James
You have got a few interesting trees there!.
Unfortunately you are a little to far away from me.
As far as removal of branches goes, so long as you do not remove more
than 33% of the tree you should be ok.
Annie Elizabeth - culinary, 1857, spurs freely
Laxtons Epicure - aka Epicure, dessert, 1909, spurs moderately well
Discovery - dessert, 1949, spurs freely and inclined to tip bear
Royalty -
Howgate Wonder - culinary, 1915, spurs freely
Cox ?orage pippin - dessert, 1825, spurs freely
? pomona - culinary, 1825, spurs freely
Sunset - dessert, 1918, produces spurs freely
Yarlington Mill, can be biennial bearing. a Somerset cider apple,
widely grown in cider orchards.

As far as tree hights go, back in Victorian times the Rivers Nursery
started to popularise dwarfing rootstocks. Bramleys on M25 would
achive a 25-30ft. The dwarfing rootstock of the Victorian era was the
Paradise rootstock, similar to todays M26.
Those dwarfs down at 6ft could be on M27, but couldn't be certain.
Today, M9 is the most widely available rootstock.

Quince normally stand very well, for their rootstocks are quite
vigourous. It could be steaking. It could be a lot of things, either
way its on its side. In Russia, they actually push theie apple trees
over, so as not to be damaged by the weight of snow. Then come spring,
they are winched back up. Not that I am suggesting you try that with
your qunice, but does show that all is not lost with it being on a
lean. Could you put a pip prop under it, to stop its advancing lean?

Somerset County Council Countryside Group at the Town Hall in Taunton
are members of the National Orchard Forum. They might be able to
assist with identification of your trees and maybe some help! (Contact
Phil Stone)

If any of your trees are tip bearers, just remember when it comes to
pruning, don't cut out any young shoots unless they are too crowded or
crossing etc. Do remove any thin, weak shoots and spear those shoots
you would have pruned on a spuring tree.

Good Luck
Clifford
Bawtry, Doncaster, South Yorkshire

In my first post, I suggested that Gerry contact a university that
specializes in caring for apple trees. That is always a good piece of
advice.

I feel that if your are over 21 years of age you can prune your trees when
ever you want to, February, March, or even August. Then I also told him
what I did and why. By all means, if you dont want to prune your trees at
that time, prune them when you want to. We both live in free countries and
are entitled to voice our opinions.

Dwayne




"K" wrote in message
...
Dwayne writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Dwayne writes

I prune all my trees around February 15, while they are dormant and
insects
are not around.

Why the owrry about pruning when there are no insects around?

Some insects gain entry to your fruit trees through "distressed" areas and
some introduce diseases to your trees through open wounds. Other
windbourn
diseases can also enter the same way (IE. Fire and cedar blight).

OK. Not all winters in the UK are sufficient to get rid of all insects. I
wouldn't have thought a clean cut would present much of a problem
disease-wise.

Sometimes I have to postpone it a few days if the weather
doesn't cooperate, but I always have it done by the end of Feb.

You are, of course, not posting from the UK.

No I am not, but I assume you still have cold weather in February and your
trees are dormant.

Indeed. It is now nearing the end of March and the trees are still
dormant. "I always have it done by the end of February" gives the
impression that it is now too late to prune, and that the OP has missed
the chance for this year. This is not the case. That's why I pointed out
you were not giving UK experience.

I lived in Germany for 3 years and their winters were
the same as ours. If I am wrong in your case, please correct me.

Our winters are probably wetter and warmer than Germany Our weather is
more changeable (the current prolonged cold spell is uncharacteristic),
and we probably have more cloud cover therefore lower light levels. You
mentioned elsewhere that your winters go down to -20 deg C - this would be
most unusual here, and in the SW there are places which rarely get any
frost.
--
Kay

In article ,
(James Fidell) wrote:

all the trees are on a dwarfing rootstock,
I assume (the trunks are only about two feet tall), but whereas the
Bramleys are still around 20ft high

I've heard that Bramley's are very vigorous ....

Steve

Dwayne writes

I feel that if your are over 21 years of age you can prune your trees when
ever you want to, February, March, or even August. Then I also told him
what I did and why. By all means, if you dont want to prune your trees at
that time, prune them when you want to. We both live in free countries and
are entitled to voice our opinions.

Of course. But this is a ng about gardening in the UK, so it is rather
inconsiderate to inexperienced gardeners, who are expecting advice on
gardening in the UK, to give them advice based on your experience in
non-UK gardens without letting them know that your advice is based on
somewhere other than the UK.

I know that you're not in the UK, and that I need to stop before taking
your advice and think 'now that's not in the UK - how do I have to
change that to apply here?', but newcomers to the group will not know
that, and may not have enough gardening experience to make the necessary
adjustments.

I see from another thread that you don't want to advertise your
location, and I certainly wouldn't want you to stop contributing. But I
do garden in the UK, and when I recognise your advice is a bit off-beam,
I'm probably going to point it out rather than let people be misled. If
I'm in a good mood, that is.


--
Kay

"K" wrote in message
...
Dwayne writes

I feel that if your are over 21 years of age you can prune your trees when
ever you want to, February, March, or even August. Then I also told him
what I did and why. By all means, if you dont want to prune your trees at
that time, prune them when you want to. We both live in free countries
and
are entitled to voice our opinions.

Of course. But this is a ng about gardening in the UK, so it is rather
inconsiderate to inexperienced gardeners, who are expecting advice on
gardening in the UK, to give them advice based on your experience in
non-UK gardens without letting them know that your advice is based on
somewhere other than the UK.

I know that you're not in the UK, and that I need to stop before taking
your advice and think 'now that's not in the UK - how do I have to change
that to apply here?', but newcomers to the group will not know that, and
may not have enough gardening experience to make the necessary
adjustments.

I see from another thread that you don't want to advertise your location,
and I certainly wouldn't want you to stop contributing. But I do garden in
the UK, and when I recognise your advice is a bit off-beam, I'm probably
going to point it out rather than let people be misled. If I'm in a good
mood, that is.


--
Kay

Thanks again, but as I stated in my first response to this post, contact a
university that specializes in pruning apple trees and get information from
them. Then I added information as to what I do with my trees and when.

I didn't say that I didn't want to tell everyone where I live, I said that
when I did regular posters here let me know that they didn't appreciate
Americans posting here.

By the way I live in Colby, Kansas. One or more of your posters may have
children working here on some sort of an exchange program. Last year I met
two young men from the UK and the year before I met one young man and a
young lady from the UK. She said that her mother did not post anything on
this newsgroup. Most of them are working for a grain harvesting company
that travels as far south as Texas and north to the Dakotas.

Have fun and enjoy your day.

Dwayne