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#31
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****ing on compost
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , Chris Bacon writes: | George.com wrote: | A question for those who **** on their compost heap. | | Please don't be vulgar, George.com. This is uk.rec.gardening. We call a spade a spade. According to one unassailable Internet authority, that phrase originated from an ancient Greek expression: _ta syka syka, te:n skaphe:n de skaphe:n onomasein_ = "to call a fig a fig, a trough a trough". It was translated into English in 1542 by Nicholas Udall in his translation of Erasmus's version as "to call a spade [...] a spade". above from - http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/miftocllspdspd.shtml The interesting thing to me in all this, is that there are no actual euphemisms, so far as I know, for figs, troughs, or spades. You have no choice but to call things figs or troughs or spades. Or is the point that figs, troughs, and spades, are euphemisms for something else ? In which case the point of the saying surely, is that you should in fact use euphemisms for things after all. I think. michael adams .... You may prefer to call it micturation, but ****ing is something that we all do every day. And many of us **** on our compost heaps :-) Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#32
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****ing on compost
"Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes
And some of us even **** on our own bonfires:-) I know a group of cave diggers whose generator caught fire ..... -- Kay |
#33
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****ing on compost
H Ryder writes
It's full of PPs and BA's :~)) what is a PP? and do you mean "bachelor of arts"? Pork pie and brown ale -- Kay |
#34
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****ing on compost
"michael adams" wrote in message ... "Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , Chris Bacon writes: | George.com wrote: | A question for those who **** on their compost heap. | | Please don't be vulgar, George.com. This is uk.rec.gardening. We call a spade a spade. According to one unassailable Internet authority, that phrase originated from an ancient Greek expression: _ta syka syka, te:n skaphe:n de skaphe:n onomasein_ = "to call a fig a fig, a trough a trough". It was translated into English in 1542 by Nicholas Udall in his translation of Erasmus's version as "to call a spade [...] a spade". above from - http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/miftocllspdspd.shtml The interesting thing to me in all this, is that there are no actual euphemisms, so far as I know, for figs, troughs, or spades. You have no choice but to call things figs or troughs or spades. I'm a straightforrard Lancashire lad, And I worked down the mine like me dad Call a shovel a spade, for that's how I'm made I'm a straightforrard Lancashire lad. Steve |
#35
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****ing on compost
K wrote: "Rupert (W.Yorkshire)" writes And some of us even **** on our own bonfires:-) I know a group of cave diggers whose generator caught fire ..... I was, sadly, not present the day a group of fellow-higher-primates went for the sustained-fire GPMG record: with x to the power n rounds of ammunition going through, there was only one way to keep the barrel reasonably cool... -- Mike. |
#37
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****ing on compost
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message ... The message from "michael adams" contains these words: You have no choice but to call things figs or troughs or spades. Or is the point that figs, troughs, and spades, are euphemisms for something else ? Fig certainly is ; it was a vulgar term for female sex organ, at least 500 years ago, in Italian, Spanish and English. "I don't give a fig" did not refer to fruit, and the modesty "fig leaf" on nudes was a double entendre. Spade = black person. Nowadays yes. But I doubt if that was the case in 1589 when it was first used in English. That usage came from playing cards I believe. In fact I imagine all three were sexual ephemisms. The "spade" was what you used in the "trough". The statement - " I call a spade a spade" is rather paradoxical. As it should really be "I call the male sexual organ a spade" - because I use euphemisms. Which is precisely the opposite of what's being claimed. michael adams .... Janet. -- Isle of Arran Open Gardens weekend 21,22,23 July 2006 5 UKP three-day adult ticket (funds go to island charities) buys entry to 26 private gardens |
#38
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****ing on compost
In article , "michael adams" writes: | | Spade = black person. | | Nowadays yes. But I doubt if that was the case in 1589 when it | was first used in English. That usage came from playing cards | I believe. Do you have a reference for that? The OED has nothing before 1928. It doesn't even have a reference to the card suit before 1598. | In fact I imagine all three were sexual ephemisms. | | The "spade" was what you used in the "trough". You have a, er, fertile imagination. Some evidence would help to convince others. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#39
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****ing on compost
In article , Janet Baraclough writes: | | Or is the point that figs, troughs, and spades, are euphemisms for | something else ? | | Fig certainly is ; it was a vulgar term for female sex organ, at least | 500 years ago, in Italian, Spanish and English. "I don't give a fig" did | not refer to fruit, and the modesty "fig leaf" on nudes was a double | entendre. If you have references, I suggest passing them on to the OED. There aren't any references to that use, but there are to some of its derivations - including the 'fig' gesture, which is obviously sexual - and it refers to the belief that it had that use in Italian. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#40
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****ing on compost
In article , Sacha
writes Fig certainly is ; it was a vulgar term for female sex organ, at least 500 years ago, in Italian, Spanish and English. "I don't give a fig" did not refer to fruit, and the modesty "fig leaf" on nudes was a double entendre. Spade = black person. Janet. It still is in Italian. What spade or fig? -- Judith Lea |
#41
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****ing on compost
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , "michael adams" writes: | | Spade = black person. | | Nowadays yes. But I doubt if that was the case in 1589 when it | was first used in English. That usage came from playing cards | I believe. Do you have a reference for that? The OED has nothing before 1928. A reference to what ? The phrase "as black as the ace of spades" .... It doesn't even have a reference to the card suit before 1598. .... Er no Nick, you seem to be missing the point. References to dark skinned people as spades i.e Colin McInnes "City of Spades" c. 195* clearly came after the reference was already established to the card suit. Before the card suit, there were no everyday objects caled spades which were characteristically black in colour. This topic didn't feature in the recent Victoria Coren telly prog by any chance did it ? No wonder you let your attention wander. .... | In fact I imagine all three were sexual ephemisms. | | The "spade" was what you used in the "trough". You have a, er, fertile imagination. Some evidence would help to convince others. .... I'm not particaularly interested in convincing anyone. Euphemisms perform a very useful function in society. The words spade and trough clearly functioned as euphamisms, and sexual topics have always been a fertile ground for euphamisms. Both on grounds of delicacy and as a source of ribaldry and double entendres. The essence of good manners Nick, is not to inadvertantly make other people feel uncomfortable when there's no immediate need. Whether you or I happen to like it or not, some people really do to feel uncomfortable over the use of terms such as "****ing". In such circumstances only the most boorish individual would insist on their right to persist. Although perhaps by not citing as a precedent, the clearly tautological - or self contradictory - depending on the original intention - "I call a spade a spade ". hth michael adams you troll me at your peril .... Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#42
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****ing on compost
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#43
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****ing on compost
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... In article , "michael adams" writes: | | | Spade = black person. | | | | Nowadays yes. But I doubt if that was the case in 1589 when it | | was first used in English. That usage came from playing cards | | I believe. | | Do you have a reference for that? The OED has nothing before 1928. | | A reference to what ? | | The phrase "as black as the ace of spades" That would do, certainly, provided that it was dated 1589. Please reread what YOU posted about 1589. | It doesn't even have a reference to the card suit before 1598. | | Er no Nick, you seem to be missing the point. | | References to dark skinned people as spades i.e Colin McInnes | "City of Spades" c. 195* clearly came after the reference was | already established to the card suit. I am unaware that Colin McInnes was writing in 1589, but I learn something new every day. .... Digital dyslexia must put you at a marked disadvantage as a mathematician I'd have thought. You have my deepest sympathy. .... As I said, the OED has a reference to "spade" meaning "negro" in 1928, which I am quite happy to agree probably came after the expression "as black as the ace of spades", though I have no reference to prove the point. The issue is your claim for a date of 1589. .... 1542 then. But then I'm no mathematician. In answer to your first use of the phrase - "We call a spade a spade." I posted the following - (to save you wearing your fingers any nearer to the bone I should perhaps add that "unassailable Internet authority" is intended with tongue firmly in cheek) michael adams" wrote in message ... "Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... This is uk.rec.gardening. We call a spade a spade. According to one unassailable Internet authority, that phrase originated from an ancient Greek expression: _ta syka syka, te:n skaphe:n de skaphe:n onomasein_ = "to call a fig a fig, a trough a trough". It was translated into English in 1542 by Nicholas Udall in his translation of Erasmus's version as "to call a spade [...] a spade". above from - http://www.yaelf.com/aueFAQ/miftocllspdspd.shtml I notice you have yet to explain precisely what you mean to imply by your the use of phrase - "We call a spade a spade." Unless you can describe any circumstance in which anyone could possibly be offended by the use of the term "spade", I fail to see the point of stating the blindingly obvious. Anyone who decided to call a spade a fork, or a spade a rake would very soon find themselves at a marked disadvantage, I'd have thought. Wouldn't you ? ... | This topic didn't feature in the recent Victoria Coren telly prog | by any chance did it ? No wonder you let your attention wander. Who is Victoria Coren? Never heard of her. She's the daughter of Alan Coren. michael adams .... Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#44
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****ing on compost
In article , "michael adams" writes: | | Digital dyslexia must put you at a marked disadvantage as a | mathematician I'd have thought. | | You have my deepest sympathy. You're trolling AGAIN. Please desist. Or at least be a bit more subtle. | I posted the following - (to save you wearing your fingers any nearer | to the bone I should perhaps add that "unassailable Internet authority" | is intended with tongue firmly in cheek) You also posted the following. I have included enough references that you should be able to track the original down. If you read what you wrote, you will see that you claimed 1589. Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening Subject: ****ing on compost Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 11:12:15 +0100 Organization: is pointless Lines: 57 Message-ID: X-Trace: individual.net /R+Snevw4cEgLopuinQsUgxotzXfsF9lbdw5xDlf1aev+PmJVj "Janet Baraclough" wrote in message ... The message from "michael adams" contains these words: You have no choice but to call things figs or troughs or spades. Or is the point that figs, troughs, and spades, are euphemisms for something else ? Fig certainly is ; it was a vulgar term for female sex organ, at least 500 years ago, in Italian, Spanish and English. "I don't give a fig" did not refer to fruit, and the modesty "fig leaf" on nudes was a double entendre. Spade = black person. Nowadays yes. But I doubt if that was the case in 1589 when it was first used in English. That usage came from playing cards I believe. In fact I imagine all three were sexual ephemisms. The "spade" was what you used in the "trough". The statement - " I call a spade a spade" is rather paradoxical. As it should really be "I call the male sexual organ a spade" - because I use euphemisms. Which is precisely the opposite of what's being claimed. |
#45
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****ing on compost
On 9/6/06 16:21, in article , "michael adams"
wrote: "Nick Maclaren" wrote in message ... snip Who is Victoria Coren? Never heard of her. She's the daughter of Alan Coren. Who has been very ill in the South of France, sadly. I hope he's recovering because he's one of the funniest writers around. -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (email address on website) |
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