I have a balcony constructed from cedarwood decking. When the decking

was originally laid, about 3 years ago, it had a wonderful lustrous
reddish-brown colour, which has gradually faded until now its usual
colour is a silver-grey. But the odd thing is, when it rains, the
water seems to bring up the original vibrant colour, which stays until
the wood dries again, when it goes back to grey. Does anyone have the

explanation for this phenomenon? Might it be possible to retain the
original colour even when the wood is dry - without using a stain?

Ken

wrote in message
ups.com...

I have a balcony constructed from cedarwood decking. When the decking

was originally laid, about 3 years ago, it had a wonderful lustrous
reddish-brown colour, which has gradually faded until now its usual
colour is a silver-grey. But the odd thing is, when it rains, the
water seems to bring up the original vibrant colour, which stays until
the wood dries again, when it goes back to grey. Does anyone have the

explanation for this phenomenon? Might it be possible to retain the
original colour even when the wood is dry - without using a stain?

Ken


Varnishing from new helps preserve any moisture already present in
the wood, which is what gives it its original colour. There is
also the question of bleaching by UV light, which may or may not
be a separate issue.

When unvarnished wood becomes wet, the wood swells up, and water gets
into the vessels on the suface* and mimics the effect of the original
moisture.

It might be possible to reproduce this effect by pressure injecting
the timber with super-thin varnish but this would be totally
uneconomical as compared with staining.

And wet clothes are also darker in colour of course. Although
quite what this has to do with wood I'm not sure.

michael adams

* but only to a limited extent, as the vessels are horizontal of
course.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a balcony constructed from cedarwood decking. When the decking

was originally laid, about 3 years ago, it had a wonderful lustrous
reddish-brown colour, which has gradually faded until now its usual
colour is a silver-grey. But the odd thing is, when it rains, the
water seems to bring up the original vibrant colour, which stays until
the wood dries again, when it goes back to grey. Does anyone have the

explanation for this phenomenon? Might it be possible to retain the
original colour even when the wood is dry - without using a stain?

Ken
have a look at this
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...9846.Ch.r.html

wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a balcony constructed from cedarwood decking. When the decking

was originally laid, about 3 years ago, it had a wonderful lustrous
reddish-brown colour, which has gradually faded until now its usual
colour is a silver-grey. But the odd thing is, when it rains, the
water seems to bring up the original vibrant colour, which stays until
the wood dries again, when it goes back to grey. Does anyone have the

explanation for this phenomenon? Might it be possible to retain the
original colour even when the wood is dry - without using a stain?
Ken

Oil maybe ??

Two American sites which might be of use....

http://www.cedar-deck.org/why_real_cedar/overview.htm
http://www.fairharbor.com/home_deck_faq.htm#Necessary

Jenny

JennyC wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
I have a balcony constructed from cedarwood decking. When the decking
was originally laid, about 3 years ago, it had a wonderful lustrous
reddish-brown colour, which has gradually faded until now its usual
colour is a silver-grey. But the odd thing is, when it rains, the
water seems to bring up the original vibrant colour, which stays until
the wood dries again, when it goes back to grey. Does anyone have the
explanation for this phenomenon? Might it be possible to retain the
original colour even when the wood is dry - without using a stain?

Oil maybe ??

I think it's too late to regain the colour. Ken should have used it at
the beginning. We've constructed almost everything by ourselves in and
around our house. The thing to do now is enjoy the silver colour and
clean the decking with pressure water. We've used western red cedar on
one of our buildings (175 flats with exterior wood panelling and a
bridge). It's now all silver and is very beautiful. When it rains it
goes darker and once it's dry goes back to silver.

La Puce wrote:

I think it's too late to regain the colour.

I've checked some photos I took when the decking was originally laid.
The change in colour I've observed is definitely back to the original
colour, not just darkening of the grey. If the temporary change back
to the original colour is something to do with the wood fibres
temporarily retaining the water, then maybe the answer lies in finding
a treatment which will enhance the water-retaining properties of the
fibres.

Ken

wrote:
La Puce wrote:

I think it's too late to regain the colour.

I've checked some photos I took when the decking was originally laid.
The change in colour I've observed is definitely back to the original
colour, not just darkening of the grey. If the temporary change back
to the original colour is something to do with the wood fibres
temporarily retaining the water, then maybe the answer lies in finding
a treatment which will enhance the water-retaining properties of the
fibres.

I don't think encouraging water to stand would be a good idea, even if
it were possible. The colour change is, apart from unpreventable
natural fading and weathering, I think much the same phenomenon as you
see with wet pebbles: I've always assumed that when the surface is
rough, light is reflected in all directions, but a layer of water
smooths it out and allows a more directional reflection so that the
colours stand out. But I think weathered wood looks much better
outdoors than spanking new.

--
Mike.

wrote in message
ups.com...

La Puce wrote:

I think it's too late to regain the colour.

I've checked some photos I took when the decking was originally laid.
The change in colour I've observed is definitely back to the original
colour, not just darkening of the grey. If the temporary change back
to the original colour is something to do with the wood fibres
temporarily retaining the water, then maybe the answer lies in finding
a treatment which will enhance the water-retaining properties of the
fibres.



Ken

That might introduce the possibility of fungal growth, algae etc.
When the timber was originally felled, the mositure content was
sap, water taken up through the roots, mixed with various compounds,
such as the gum you get seeping out of wounds etc. That sap is
probably resistant to fungus, whereas straight water isn't.

You could always paint a small square with a weatherproof yacht
varnish*, let it dry and then compare that with a wet section.
The conventional wisdom states that you'll simply get a darker
tone of the weathered colour. Same as would happen with oil,
once it had dried to the touch.

michael adams

* If only it was possible to buy small tins of it, that is.
For experimental purposes any clear polyurethane varnish
would probably do.

wrote:
I've checked some photos I took when the decking was originally laid.
The change in colour I've observed is definitely back to the original
colour, not just darkening of the grey. If the temporary change back
to the original colour is something to do with the wood fibres
temporarily retaining the water, then maybe the answer lies in finding
a treatment which will enhance the water-retaining properties of the
fibres.

I understand what you mean and want to achieve - but I cannot agree in
'sealing' in the colour you have now while the wood is wet. You could
however use a die once it's dry. That would be a real shame though and
I don't think you'll get that red look you like either. Wood changes
all the time - some years my gates are darker than other years. I think
that the appeal of wood.

Having said that .... I have been known to do mad things in my time,
one being to paint a very very old wooden and leather trunk in bright
pink and acid green ... There was no chance for the wood to recover
it's original colour, it was badly damaged and looked as if it had been
left outside for decades. The final result is not to everyone's taste,
but it's still there and is being admire for it's strange appearance. I
have restored many wooden items using gentle sanding, streaping,
waxing, oiling - but once something is outside and as soaked in water,
and you cannot bring back indoors to dry - the best thing is either
leave it as it is and enjoy it's natural changes from dark to light
colours, or take the plunge and do something mad on it )

Jiri Borsky wrote:
The explanation: Water and other liquids conduct light in a different way
to air. When the wood (soil, fabric, etc) is wet, it reflects light
differently from when dry. Usually it appears darker, as more light rays
penetrate deeper via the liquid filling the spaces and get absorbed there.
When the liquid evaporates it is again replaced by air (with smaller
refraction coefficient) and the surface appears lighter.
To retain the darker "wet" appearance you would have to fill the pores
of dry wood with some non-evaporating substance, such as wax.

Fantastic. So you'd apply wax once it's dry?

I'm off to view your paintings in Didsbury on Monday .... )

wrote:

I have a balcony constructed from cedarwood decking. When the decking

was originally laid, about 3 years ago, it had a wonderful lustrous
reddish-brown colour, which has gradually faded until now its usual
colour is a silver-grey. But the odd thing is, when it rains, the
water seems to bring up the original vibrant colour, which stays until
the wood dries again, when it goes back to grey. Does anyone have the

explanation for this phenomenon? Might it be possible to retain the
original colour even when the wood is dry - without using a stain?

Ken

The explanation: Water and other liquids conduct light in a different way
to air. When the wood (soil, fabric, etc) is wet, it reflects light
differently from when dry. Usually it appears darker, as more light rays
penetrate deeper via the liquid filling the spaces and get absorbed there.
When the liquid evaporates it is again replaced by air (with smaller
refraction coefficient) and the surface appears lighter.

To retain the darker "wet" appearance you would have to fill the pores
of dry wood with some non-evaporating substance, such as wax.

Jiri Borsky
http://www.borsky.com

La Puce wrote:

Jiri Borsky wrote:
The explanation: Water and other liquids conduct light in a different way
to air. When the wood (soil, fabric, etc) is wet, it reflects light
differently from when dry. Usually it appears darker, as more light rays
penetrate deeper via the liquid filling the spaces and get absorbed there.
When the liquid evaporates it is again replaced by air (with smaller
refraction coefficient) and the surface appears lighter.
To retain the darker "wet" appearance you would have to fill the pores
of dry wood with some non-evaporating substance, such as wax.

Fantastic. So you'd apply wax once it's dry?

If it were indoors, my answer would be an unequivocal Yes. Wax is kind to
wood.

Outdoors: Not sure how wax would cope with our weather and whether it
would attract airborne dirt or otherwise change its appearance? One would
need to do a bit of research into what is on the market specifically for
exterior applications.

Best wishes,
Jiri Borsky

Snip
To retain the darker "wet" appearance you would have to fill the pores
of dry wood with some non-evaporating substance, such as wax.
Snip
Fantastic. So you'd apply wax once it's dry?
Outdoors: Not sure how wax would cope with our weather . . Snip

You might need to sand the surface first in order to get rid of the bleached
wood, or has the lignin in the very surface layer been removed by water or
was it a bit of each? If you stop the water with wax how are you going to
stop the UV? Sun block!!!?

I reckon you'd better leave it.

Geoff

"La Puce" wrote in message
oups.com...

Jiri Borsky wrote:
The explanation: Water and other liquids conduct light in a different way
to air. When the wood (soil, fabric, etc) is wet, it reflects light
differently from when dry. Usually it appears darker, as more light rays
penetrate deeper via the liquid filling the spaces and get absorbed
there.
When the liquid evaporates it is again replaced by air (with smaller
refraction coefficient) and the surface appears lighter.
To retain the darker "wet" appearance you would have to fill the pores
of dry wood with some non-evaporating substance, such as wax.

Fantastic. So you'd apply wax once it's dry?

I'm off to view your paintings in Didsbury on Monday .... )

hi Jiri,
Your site does not seem to be working but I noticed elsewhere that you are
an organic gardener:~)
Jenny

"Jiri Borsky" wrote in message
...
La Puce wrote:

Jiri Borsky wrote:
The explanation: Water and other liquids conduct light in a different
way
to air. When the wood (soil, fabric, etc) is wet, it reflects light
differently from when dry. Usually it appears darker, as more light
rays
penetrate deeper via the liquid filling the spaces and get absorbed
there.
When the liquid evaporates it is again replaced by air (with smaller
refraction coefficient) and the surface appears lighter.
To retain the darker "wet" appearance you would have to fill the pores
of dry wood with some non-evaporating substance, such as wax.

Fantastic. So you'd apply wax once it's dry?

If it were indoors, my answer would be an unequivocal Yes. Wax is kind to
wood.

Outdoors: Not sure how wax would cope with our weather and whether it
would attract airborne dirt or otherwise change its appearance? One would
need to do a bit of research into what is on the market specifically for
exterior applications.

Best wishes,
Jiri Borsky

The wax might indeed melt/cook/go hard and even whiter............
Perhaps varnish might be a better idea, but only if the wood is 100% dry.
Jenny