"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
Charlie Pridham wrote:


"echinosum" wrote in message
...

Charlie Pridham Wrote:
Also saw a lot of Milkweed Butterflies which at first thought to be
Monarchs but they were lower down
Monarch and Milkweed is same thing. See http://tinyurl.com/yk7kc4

--
echinosum

Thanks! that's obviously why they looked like monarchs, do you know why
they are called milkweeds instead in the uk?


Generally they aren't. Usually we lepidopterists ( butterfly and moth
people) call them Monarchs.

Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

That one is not my fault! the only book on butterflies they could produce at
the hotel was an old uk edition of the "observers book of butterflies", they
called them milkweeds in that although I thought at the time they looked
like the monarchs I had seen in America.

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

Charlie Pridham wrote:


"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
Charlie Pridham wrote:


"Des Higgins" wrote in message
. ie...

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

snip
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/


google for images of
"brimstone butterfly"
In Ireland (and UK) you get just one species: "the" brimstone.
No idea how many species you get elsewhere.

THe Irish Brimstones are actually slightly different.



Thanks for that, but Brimstones we get here abouts occasionally so I
know
what that looks like, so unless there are different sorts on Madeira I
do
not think its that. I had wondered about the Clouded Yellows which seem
to
be migratory but as I have never seen one am not sure of the size and
the
also seem to be described with more black markings than those we saw.


There is a different kind of Brimstone that is found on Madeira
It is the Madeiran Cleopatra.


Gonepteryx cleopatra maderensis

The Brimstone is Gonepteryx rhamni


Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

I think that's it, I couldn't get a decent picture from google images but
the description and location sounds spot on, many thanks, and Des my
apologies for doubting it being a brimstone!

TRy http://www.guypadfield.com/cleopatra1.html

The cleopatra has orange on the upperside forwing which is what you see when
the butterfly has its wings open. Unfortunately these are not easily
photographed because these are butterflies that like to settle with their
wings closed.

Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

Charlie Pridham wrote:
"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
Charlie Pridham wrote:

snip

There is a different kind of Brimstone that is found on Madeira
It is the Madeiran Cleopatra.


Gonepteryx cleopatra maderensis

The Brimstone is Gonepteryx rhamni


Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

I think that's it, I couldn't get a decent picture from google images but
the description and location sounds spot on, many thanks, and Des my
apologies for doubting it being a brimstone!


I was actually making a vague guess and am pleasantly surprised to have
been close.
They are related to clouded yellows and the other migratory species
that Liz suggested anyway. I love seeing odd butterflies when abroad
but usually in hot climates they move too fast to see clearly. In
Ireland we only get about 20 or so species (maybe 30 at a stretch).
Madeira sounds fantastic.

Des


--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

On 13/10/06 11:25, in article
,
" wrote:


Charlie Pridham wrote:
"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
Charlie Pridham wrote:

snip

There is a different kind of Brimstone that is found on Madeira
It is the Madeiran Cleopatra.


Gonepteryx cleopatra maderensis

The Brimstone is Gonepteryx rhamni


Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

I think that's it, I couldn't get a decent picture from google images but
the description and location sounds spot on, many thanks, and Des my
apologies for doubting it being a brimstone!


I was actually making a vague guess and am pleasantly surprised to have
been close.
They are related to clouded yellows and the other migratory species
that Liz suggested anyway. I love seeing odd butterflies when abroad
but usually in hot climates they move too fast to see clearly. In
Ireland we only get about 20 or so species (maybe 30 at a stretch).
Madeira sounds fantastic.


It really is. They call it a floating garden and one easily sees why. On a
practical level it's only a 3 hour flight for us, it's virtually crime free
and the people are lovely, as is the climate. It's hard to beat!
I know someone else on here used to read Dornford Yates years ago, Mike
Lyle, perhaps? Madeira featured in one of his stories under a different
name but in those days they went by ship and stayed for a month or more!
When you visit the little museum at the highest look out point there are
posters and photographs of the old liners, Union Castle Line, I think and
porters used to carry people ashore at one time.
We're really looking forward to going again.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

wrote:


Charlie Pridham wrote:
"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
Charlie Pridham wrote:

snip

There is a different kind of Brimstone that is found on Madeira
It is the Madeiran Cleopatra.


Gonepteryx cleopatra maderensis

The Brimstone is Gonepteryx rhamni


Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

I think that's it, I couldn't get a decent picture from google images but
the description and location sounds spot on, many thanks, and Des my
apologies for doubting it being a brimstone!


I was actually making a vague guess and am pleasantly surprised to have
been close.
They are related to clouded yellows and the other migratory species
that Liz suggested anyway. I love seeing odd butterflies when abroad
but usually in hot climates they move too fast to see clearly. In
Ireland we only get about 20 or so species (maybe 30 at a stretch).
Madeira sounds fantastic.


The figure I have seen for ireland is 32 species. The Brimstone is actually
quite restricted in distribution there, probably due to a shortage of
buckthorns which are the larval foodplant. It is so rare in Northern
Ireland that it actually has legal protection there.

Madeira has about 14 species of butterfly but several of them are endemics
found nowhere else in the world.

Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

Neil Jones wrote:
wrote:


Charlie Pridham wrote:
"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...
Charlie Pridham wrote:

snip

There is a different kind of Brimstone that is found on Madeira
It is the Madeiran Cleopatra.


Gonepteryx cleopatra maderensis

The Brimstone is Gonepteryx rhamni


Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

I think that's it, I couldn't get a decent picture from google images but
the description and location sounds spot on, many thanks, and Des my
apologies for doubting it being a brimstone!


I was actually making a vague guess and am pleasantly surprised to have
been close.
They are related to clouded yellows and the other migratory species
that Liz suggested anyway. I love seeing odd butterflies when abroad
but usually in hot climates they move too fast to see clearly. In
Ireland we only get about 20 or so species (maybe 30 at a stretch).
Madeira sounds fantastic.


The figure I have seen for ireland is 32 species. The Brimstone is actually
quite restricted in distribution there, probably due to a shortage of
buckthorns which are the larval foodplant. It is so rare in Northern
Ireland that it actually has legal protection there.

I have only seen Brimstones in Ireland a few times and every time I see
one it gives me a thrill (thrills come cheap for amateur entomologists
:-). They are indeed restricted. Buckthorn is widespread but never
common. I cannot even remember the last time I saw one.

Same with Clouded yellows which I have only seen maybe twice here (in
some years you get lots on migration).

is the 32 figure for natives/breeding species i.e. excludes monarchs
etc. which you get as accidentals? One way or another, we only seem to
have about half what you get in the UK.
I do recall recently seeing mention of a mix up with "wood whites"
which I do remember seeing as a kid and even seeing quite a lot of but
which now turn out not to be wood whites at all but ehhhh something
else.


Madeira has about 14 species of butterfly but several of them are endemics
found nowhere else in the world.

Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...

"echinosum" wrote in message
...

Charlie Pridham Wrote:
Also saw a lot of Milkweed Butterflies which at first thought to be
Monarchs but they were lower down
Monarch and Milkweed is same thing. See http://tinyurl.com/yk7kc4

--
echinosum

Thanks! that's obviously why they looked like monarchs, do you know why
they
are called milkweeds instead in the uk?

I think they are called milkweeds in the US because the larvae feed on
milkweed
(plant that exudes white sap when you break leaves off I think).
In the UK, they are more commonly called monarchs but clearly you are the
exception that proves me completely wrong :-).



--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collections of Clematis viticella (cvs) and
Lapageria rosea

The Monarch / Milkweed is also a very rarer straggler to the UK - brought
across, mainly to the south west and the Isles of Scilly in autumn gales.

I have seen one in our garden and two or three more over the years here at
Portland in Dorset!

Keith


"echinosum" wrote in message
...

Charlie Pridham Wrote:
Also saw a lot of Milkweed Butterflies which at first thought to be
Monarchs but they were lower down
Monarch and Milkweed is same thing. See http://tinyurl.com/yk7kc4




--
echinosum