Hi, I have an old un-used drive (covered in small pebbles). I have
cleared away the layer of pebbles (1 spade depth).

I am now left with solid & I do mean SOLID :-( CLAY.

I have done a couple of test trenches 1 more spades depth & below its
still SOLID CLAY :-( (very hard work digging out slabs of solid clay)

The plan is to dig don 1 more spades debth & put in half a spades
depth of pebbles & then 1 1/2 spades depth of compost, mixed up clay ,
leaves & any other organic matter I can find.

BUT, now that I am 2 spades debth down, below that is still SOLID
clay. The last few days rain has turned it into a bit of a pond & its
very slow draining.

Should I use something like a couple of bags of FINNISH PLASTER, that
contains GYPSUM to try and break it up a bit ?

The plan is its going to be a VEG PATCH.

We did watch the BBC prog about planning veg patches, but must admit
we had to laugh a bit when the lady said she had heavy clay soil,
which to us looked fantastic, think ours must be HEAVT HEAVY clay :-)

BUT we have 3 compost bins on the go so hopefully we are producing
some good stuff to min in with the clay & pebbles.

But if any of you experts has any advice for me of ways of helping
with the veg patch preperation I would be greatful.

Thanks

Build up!

--
I smile and go off waving
(Amiably) - for that's my way

Baal

http://www.helden.org.uk
"tina" wrote in message
...
Hi, I have an old un-used drive (covered in small pebbles). I have
cleared away the layer of pebbles (1 spade depth).

I am now left with solid & I do mean SOLID :-( CLAY.

I have done a couple of test trenches 1 more spades depth & below its
still SOLID CLAY :-( (very hard work digging out slabs of solid clay)

The plan is to dig don 1 more spades debth & put in half a spades
depth of pebbles & then 1 1/2 spades depth of compost, mixed up clay ,
leaves & any other organic matter I can find.

BUT, now that I am 2 spades debth down, below that is still SOLID
clay. The last few days rain has turned it into a bit of a pond & its
very slow draining.

Should I use something like a couple of bags of FINNISH PLASTER, that
contains GYPSUM to try and break it up a bit ?

The plan is its going to be a VEG PATCH.

We did watch the BBC prog about planning veg patches, but must admit
we had to laugh a bit when the lady said she had heavy clay soil,
which to us looked fantastic, think ours must be HEAVT HEAVY clay :-)

BUT we have 3 compost bins on the go so hopefully we are producing
some good stuff to min in with the clay & pebbles.

But if any of you experts has any advice for me of ways of helping
with the veg patch preperation I would be greatful.

Thanks



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

tina wrote:

But if any of you experts has any advice for me of ways of helping
with the veg patch preperation I would be greatful.

Thanks

Oh Tina, join the club - we are on awful clay, I'm sure I could make a
fortune out of making Limoges a la Lea from my garden.

We have been here 9-10 years and we have made little impact despite
putting in everything that we were advised of. Trailer loads of manure
with hay and straw in it, trailers of wood chips, compost made by
ourselves and loads that was donated by friends; and we even bough a
load of cocoa shell as someone said this would solve the problem. We
took all advice but there is very litte difference, it seem that the
stuff just disappears in after a couple of years but where it goes is a
mystery and the clay is still - well clay.

Another urgler gace me some very good advice about using seaweed and
cardboard and looking at her garden, you can sede that it is a
brialliant solution. I have been up and down the Norfolk coast but I
cannot find any seaweed on the beaches. I am told that in North
Norfolk there is some to be had but it is not possible to get a car
anywhere near to where it is. I intend to place an advert asking for
seaweed and hopefully someone will see a market and sell me a few
trailer loads. I have been saving all my cardboard to place under it.

My clay really takes on a life of its own, to go and walk into the
veggie garden to get sprouts is to take a great risk with my size three
shoes, there are so many slippers and shoes buried in the clay that you
would have thought that this might have made some difference to it - it
hasn't.

judith lea wrote:
tina wrote:

But if any of you experts has any advice for me of ways of helping
with the veg patch preperation I would be greatful.

Thanks

Oh Tina, join the club - we are on awful clay, I'm sure I could make a
[...]

Both situations sound like clear cases for raised beds.

--
Mike.

tina wrote:
I am now left with solid & I do mean SOLID :-( CLAY.

If you mean blue-yellow brickpit stuff then you would be in for years
of backbreaking work, although it is high in nutrients the drainage
will be dreadful.

But since you have already effectively gone down one spit, then you are
in a position to import someone else's soil without ending up with a
severely elevated garden. When farmland is cleared for housing the
topsoil is often removed and sold by specialists (round here I would go
to Bullimores, a google search for topsoil returns lots of suppliers)

Go down as far as you can without breaking your back, and discard it.
Try and break up what is left with a pick-axe and get some gravel down
the fissures to improve drainage as far as possible, then buy in
topsoil. Mix it with sand, manure (riding schools can help) etc.

Be prepared to mulch heavily for several years to build up both the
structure and to compensate for compacting - newly laid topsoil is very
loose.

Prices vary a lot - shop around. You can expect to pay between 20 to
100 pounds per tonne, and price is not always a guarantee of quality.
http://www.salvomie.co.uk/garden/offers.html is headlining topsoil
free to whoever can take it away - an offer I have come across in more
than one place.

You stand a good chance of introducing weeds and perhaps pests. At one
time round here we could get free topsoil from the sugar beet factory,
but the farmers have to wash the roots before delivering them now.
People who took the free topsoil often found it alive with eelworm
because beet growing is an intensive monoculture. A couple of years
cropping potato is supposed to "clean the soil" but I think life is
more complex than that. Don't let the risk put you off. Most things
that you might import other people have already got....

Try your local allotment association for advice, including advice on
reputable local vendors.

"tina" wrote in message
Should I use something like a couple of bags of FINNISH PLASTER,
that
contains GYPSUM to try and break it up a bit ?

The plan is its going to be a VEG PATCH.

We did watch the BBC prog about planning veg patches, but must admit
we had to laugh a bit when the lady said she had heavy clay soil,
which to us looked fantastic, think ours must be HEAVT HEAVY clay
:-)

Clay makes fanatastic veg beds as they are full of good minerals -
they just take a bit of work.

Add gypsum (aka Plaster of Paris) large quatnities of sand and work it
in then top the lot with lots and lots of manure (horse if you can get
it and don't worry if it's straight from the horse's arse -its
fabulaous stuff) and top that with hay/straw water and walk away from
it for at least a month but water if the weather gets dry.

Come spring, rake off the mulch and see what's happening below - if it
looks good (or better than what you started with) plant into it and
rake the mulch back round the plants as the soil warms up.

You may not get great crops in the first year but the idea is to breed
worms (my term for soil improvement as lots of worms indicates good
soil) but the goal is long term improvement and sand, gypsum and lots
of organic material will eventually give you that.

"judith lea" wrote in message

Oh Tina, join the club - we are on awful clay, I'm sure I could make
a
fortune out of making Limoges a la Lea from my garden.

We have been here 9-10 years and we have made little impact despite
putting in everything that we were advised of. Trailer loads of
manure
with hay and straw in it, trailers of wood chips, compost made by
ourselves and loads that was donated by friends; and we even bough a
load of cocoa shell as someone said this would solve the problem.
We
took all advice but there is very litte difference, it seem that the
stuff just disappears in after a couple of years but where it goes
is a
mystery and the clay is still - well clay.

Order a load of sand to add to the rest of the soil improvement.

tina wrote:

Hi, I have an old un-used drive (covered in small pebbles). I have
cleared away the layer of pebbles (1 spade depth).

I am now left with solid & I do mean SOLID :-( CLAY.

It has probably been isolated from leaf litter and organic debris for
long enough with the pebbles on top to look pretty awful pure clay, but
it will still be very fertile if a bit anaerobic.

I have done a couple of test trenches 1 more spades depth & below its
still SOLID CLAY :-( (very hard work digging out slabs of solid clay)

The plan is to dig don 1 more spades debth & put in half a spades
depth of pebbles & then 1 1/2 spades depth of compost, mixed up clay ,
leaves & any other organic matter I can find.

Gravel might be better and some sharp sand and garden compost or
manure. Best to concentrate your firepower on a small patch for use as
a raised bed and grow spuds in the rest for the first year. Then bring
another chunk up to standard next year. It is more use to have a good
bit for growing produce.

BUT, now that I am 2 spades debth down, below that is still SOLID
clay. The last few days rain has turned it into a bit of a pond & its
very slow draining.

Should I use something like a couple of bags of FINNISH PLASTER, that
contains GYPSUM to try and break it up a bit ?

You could try this to flocculate the clay, but it isn't all that
effective. Hard frosts will do it for free if you are lucky. If you
have old plaster lying around and unfit for any other use then give it
a try, but I would not go out any buy it. Bulky sharp sand and general
organic matter will do a much better job of bringing the soil back to a
more healthy consistency.

The plan is its going to be a VEG PATCH.

We did watch the BBC prog about planning veg patches, but must admit
we had to laugh a bit when the lady said she had heavy clay soil,
which to us looked fantastic, think ours must be HEAVT HEAVY clay :-)

BUT we have 3 compost bins on the go so hopefully we are producing
some good stuff to min in with the clay & pebbles.

But if any of you experts has any advice for me of ways of helping
with the veg patch preperation I would be greatful.

Get a bit of it right this year, and plant things in the rest that will
tolerate abuse.

Spuds and beans will grow in surprisinly heavy clay without any
trouble. And digging out the spuds will help turn over the soil. Start
a compost heap and see if you can find cheap local compost (some
councils sell it cheaply from green recycling).

Regards,
Martin Brown

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
ups.com...

Start
a compost heap and see if you can find cheap local compost (some
councils sell it cheaply from green recycling).


£35.00 per 1 tonne cubic metre bag delivered on the Isle of Wight :-))

That's an awful lot of compost!!

Mike

Where I grew up we had solid clay - and gravel.

It is utterly heartbreaking - year after year after yrear.

If you want to enjoy your veg. growing the only practical solution is to
build raised beds - a minimum of a foot deep to begin with, and then keep
adding compsoted material to it every season.

Keith



"tina" wrote in message
...
Hi, I have an old un-used drive (covered in small pebbles). I have
cleared away the layer of pebbles (1 spade depth).

I am now left with solid & I do mean SOLID :-( CLAY.

I have done a couple of test trenches 1 more spades depth & below its
still SOLID CLAY :-( (very hard work digging out slabs of solid clay)

The plan is to dig don 1 more spades debth & put in half a spades
depth of pebbles & then 1 1/2 spades depth of compost, mixed up clay ,
leaves & any other organic matter I can find.

BUT, now that I am 2 spades debth down, below that is still SOLID
clay. The last few days rain has turned it into a bit of a pond & its
very slow draining.

Should I use something like a couple of bags of FINNISH PLASTER, that
contains GYPSUM to try and break it up a bit ?

The plan is its going to be a VEG PATCH.

We did watch the BBC prog about planning veg patches, but must admit
we had to laugh a bit when the lady said she had heavy clay soil,
which to us looked fantastic, think ours must be HEAVT HEAVY clay :-)

BUT we have 3 compost bins on the go so hopefully we are producing
some good stuff to min in with the clay & pebbles.

But if any of you experts has any advice for me of ways of helping
with the veg patch preperation I would be greatful.

Thanks

I agree with Mike.
At home I tried to improve clay but to no avail.
Decided on raised beds initially used treated timber - not a huge area so
railway sleepers not really a viable option.
Now have gone all posh at the behest of HWMBO and now have redisigned the
veg raised borders with building blocks - three beds two blocks high -
expensive but looks really cool especially with proper paving slab paths in
between. Have just got one more block layer to put on my last raised bed
although it is currently growing my spring cabbages.
It takes a little time to build up soil levels, unless your rich and can
afford lots of top soil and compost. I have been adding to mine gradually.
The soil is magnificent and the benifit is you know exacly what has gone
nto,
I love my raised beds.
Took over half an allotment about three months ago and would love raised
beds there although the clay problem is not too bad - maybe one day

Best of luck
Alan
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
oups.com...

judith lea wrote:
tina wrote:

But if any of you experts has any advice for me of ways of helping
with the veg patch preperation I would be greatful.

Thanks

Oh Tina, join the club - we are on awful clay, I'm sure I could make a
[...]

Both situations sound like clear cases for raised beds.

--
Mike.

In article , says...
Hi, I have an old un-used drive (covered in small pebbles). I have
cleared away the layer of pebbles (1 spade depth).

I am now left with solid & I do mean SOLID :-( CLAY.

I have done a couple of test trenches 1 more spades depth & below its
still SOLID CLAY :-( (very hard work digging out slabs of solid clay)

The plan is to dig don 1 more spades debth & put in half a spades
depth of pebbles & then 1 1/2 spades depth of compost, mixed up clay ,
leaves & any other organic matter I can find.

BUT, now that I am 2 spades debth down, below that is still SOLID
clay. The last few days rain has turned it into a bit of a pond & its
very slow draining.

Should I use something like a couple of bags of FINNISH PLASTER, that
contains GYPSUM to try and break it up a bit ?

The plan is its going to be a VEG PATCH.

We did watch the BBC prog about planning veg patches, but must admit
we had to laugh a bit when the lady said she had heavy clay soil,
which to us looked fantastic, think ours must be HEAVT HEAVY clay :-)

BUT we have 3 compost bins on the go so hopefully we are producing
some good stuff to min in with the clay & pebbles.

But if any of you experts has any advice for me of ways of helping
with the veg patch preperation I would be greatful.

If you can possibly build raised beds then I would do that on top
of your spades depth of pebbles. you don't say where you are but in
some parts of the thames valley for example you could be on 150 + foot
of clay so digging down may well be a complete wste of time clay
could well be the 'bedrock'

Gill M

"judith lea" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:

Order a load of sand to add to the rest of the soil improvement.

Any idea of how much sand to the square metre?

Sorry, I don't. I don't buy things that way, I just go to the
landscape yard and buy one or two scoops of the bucket on the tractor
at a time. I think that one scoop is a sq metre.

If nothing else has worked for you, it might be a 'suck it and see'
situation. Given that the two opposing ends of the soil scale are
clay and sand then the amendment for both those ends is to apply the
opposite. I think I'd rather be adding sand to clay than to be mixing
up sloppy buckets of clay to pour onto sand.

"Keith (Dorset)" wrote in message
Where I grew up we had solid clay - and gravel.

It is utterly heartbreaking - year after year after yrear.

If you want to enjoy your veg. growing the only practical solution
is to
build raised beds - a minimum of a foot deep to begin with, and then
keep
adding compsoted material to it every season.

And don't forget to add sand.

Farm1 wrote:

Order a load of sand to add to the rest of the soil improvement.

Any idea of how much sand to the square metre?