Iread in many places about the need to gently introduce seedlings to the
outside. What's the point of this? It sounds like a lot of fuss and bother.

Tim w

On 24/4/07 23:37, in article , "Tim W"
wrote:

Iread in many places about the need to gently introduce seedlings to the
outside. What's the point of this? It sounds like a lot of fuss and bother.

Where do you live? If it's in Salcombe or the Scillies you probably don't
need to worry. If it's anywhere else you could learn by doing. ;-( The
fuss and bother is to harden your plants off - you're sending them to
horticultural boot camp. Stick them out in the day time for some fresh air,
bring them in at night to protect them from cold and maybe frost, which will
kill them. When the danger of frost is past for your area, plant them where
you want them to grow permanently. BTW, when you say 'seedlings', I am
assuming you do NOT mean baby plants still in a seed tray but pricked out
plants in pots. I hope.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

Tim W writes
Iread in many places about the need to gently introduce seedlings to the
outside. What's the point of this? It sounds like a lot of fuss and bother.

You're taking them from a warm place to where the night time temperature
will drop to a few degrees centigrade. They can adjust, but slowly. If
you don't want the bother you can.
a) put them outside straight away, choosing a time when the weather
forecast for the next few nights is for warm nights - in effect getting
the weather to do the hardening off for you. You will lose quite a few
plants this way when the temperatures dip lower than expected. Rather
than lose a few plants of each batch, you'll basically lose all of the
type of plant that doesn't like that temperature, whereas other less
cold susceptible plants will survive.
b) keep them inside until outside temperatures have caught up - some
time in late May or early June. This works if you have a greenhouse, but
if you try to do it on a windowsill, they won't get enough light and
will grow weak and leggy as they try to accelerate to more light.
--
Kay

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 23:37:14 +0100, Tim W wrote
(in article ):

Iread in many places about the need to gently introduce seedlings to the
outside. What's the point of this? It sounds like a lot of fuss and bother.


I don't really understand the reference to "fuss and bother" Tim. We have an
old garden table outside the greenhouse. I merely put the young plants on
that during the day and put them back in the greenhouse at night for a while.
Then when I am sure the night-time temperatures are reasonable, I leave them
on the table at night as well. Then when they have got over this new regime
g I plant them out. It is no more a bother than watering them is. I have
always believed in making only one change at a time to plants, so I don't
move them out and replant them at the same time.


--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
bed and breakfast near Ludlow: http://www.stonybrook-ludlow.co.uk
Burne-Jones/William Morris window in Shropshire church:
http://www.whitton-stmarys.org.uk

I never do it, and I agree it seems that it woud be a real chore.

However we do live in a relatively very warm area.

If it was much colder outside than in the greenhouse, I would.

Keith
south Dorset


"Tim W" wrote in message
...
Iread in many places about the need to gently introduce seedlings to the
outside. What's the point of this? It sounds like a lot of fuss and
bother.

Tim w

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 24/4/07 23:37, in article , "Tim W"
wrote:

Iread in many places about the need to gently introduce seedlings to the
outside. What's the point of this? It sounds like a lot of fuss and
bother.

Where do you live? If it's in Salcombe or the Scillies you probably don't
need to worry. If it's anywhere else you could learn by doing.

I am growing a few veges in Somerset, and indeed learning by doing

;-( The
fuss and bother is to harden your plants off - you're sending them to
horticultural boot camp. Stick them out in the day time for some fresh
air,
bring them in at night to protect them from cold and maybe frost, which
will
kill them. When the danger of frost is past for your area, plant them
where
you want them to grow permanently.

Frost isn't the isue AIUI. some books and mags say you bring them in and out
and in and out and lids on and lids off to sort of get them used to the
weather. So far I haven't bothered with that.

BTW, when you say 'seedlings', I am
assuming you do NOT mean baby plants still in a seed tray but pricked out
plants in pots. I hope.

After some unreliable outside germination and also cats digging up seeds and
small seedlings I have taken to planting in cells in a plastic tray or in
peat pots. It's only a small veg patch for fun so only small quantities.
Then as soon as I think I can I put them in the ground. Spinach, runner
beans, sweetcorn, lettuce, beetroot, courgette. what's the alarm about baby
plants? Pricking out is another thing I don't really follow. I try to get
the whole lump of compost out with an old teaspoon and stick it in a hole.
Is that wrong too?

Tim w

"K" wrote in message
...
Tim W writes
Iread in many places about the need to gently introduce seedlings to the
outside. What's the point of this? It sounds like a lot of fuss and
bother.

You're taking them from a warm place to where the night time temperature
will drop to a few degrees centigrade. They can adjust, but slowly. If you
don't want the bother you can.
a) put them outside straight away, choosing a time when the weather
forecast for the next few nights is for warm nights - in effect getting
the weather to do the hardening off for you. You will lose quite a few
plants this way when the temperatures dip lower than expected. Rather than
lose a few plants of each batch, you'll basically lose all of the type of
plant that doesn't like that temperature, whereas other less cold
susceptible plants will survive.
b) keep them inside until outside temperatures have caught up - some time
in late May or early June. This works if you have a greenhouse, but if you
try to do it on a windowsill, they won't get enough light and will grow
weak and leggy as they try to accelerate to more light.

Oh. So that is why they are growing until they fall over. More light it is
then.

But the hardening off. If the temperature is so low at night that plants
will be killed dead then surely I am not going to be planning to plant them
outside at all?

Tim w

On 25/4/07 21:01, in article , "Tim W"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 24/4/07 23:37, in article , "Tim W"
wrote:

Iread in many places about the need to gently introduce seedlings to the
outside. What's the point of this? It sounds like a lot of fuss and
bother.

Where do you live? If it's in Salcombe or the Scillies you probably don't
need to worry. If it's anywhere else you could learn by doing.

I am growing a few veges in Somerset, and indeed learning by doing

;-( The
fuss and bother is to harden your plants off - you're sending them to
horticultural boot camp. Stick them out in the day time for some fresh
air,
bring them in at night to protect them from cold and maybe frost, which
will
kill them. When the danger of frost is past for your area, plant them
where
you want them to grow permanently.

Frost isn't the isue AIUI. some books and mags say you bring them in and out
and in and out and lids on and lids off to sort of get them used to the
weather. So far I haven't bothered with that.

Grow the plants in seed trays. Pot them on. Put them outside in the day
time to toughen them up to outdoor temps a bit, take them in at night
because they won't take the cold night temps we're getting right now.
Tonight, for example, is v. chilly here.

BTW, when you say 'seedlings', I am
assuming you do NOT mean baby plants still in a seed tray but pricked out
plants in pots. I hope.

After some unreliable outside germination and also cats digging up seeds and
small seedlings I have taken to planting in cells in a plastic tray or in
peat pots. It's only a small veg patch for fun so only small quantities.
Then as soon as I think I can I put them in the ground. Spinach, runner
beans, sweetcorn, lettuce, beetroot, courgette. what's the alarm about baby
plants? Pricking out is another thing I don't really follow. I try to get
the whole lump of compost out with an old teaspoon and stick it in a hole.
Is that wrong too?

If the plants get cold and waterlogged, they'll probably die. Does your
method work for you? Because if so, why are you asking us why you should do
anything else? I'm afraid I don't understand your problem.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

Tim W writes

After some unreliable outside germination and also cats digging up seeds and
small seedlings I have taken to planting in cells in a plastic tray or in
peat pots. It's only a small veg patch for fun so only small quantities.
Then as soon as I think I can I put them in the ground. Spinach, runner
beans, sweetcorn, lettuce, beetroot, courgette. what's the alarm about baby
plants? Pricking out is another thing I don't really follow. I try to get
the whole lump of compost out with an old teaspoon and stick it in a hole.
Is that wrong too?

Depends how many plants are in it. Lots of plants crammed together
aren't going to grow as well as the same number of plants spaced out -
they're competing with each other for food and water. Lots of plants
crammed together probably won't even grow as well as one single plant.
So if you don't want to prick out, and you're not growing a lot, either
plant single seeds or discard all but one seedling.

Courgettes - try planting one or max 2 seeds per cell. Too many, and
they won't grow into a big enough plants to start cropping. Radishes,
for example, won't develop at all if too close - they'll just go
straight to flower without producing a radish. Runner beans - you are
probably OK with 3 to a cell and planting in one batch. Lettuce - lots
of plants together will not develop into a big hearted lettuce - let
them grow together awhile, then remove most of the seedlings and eat
them, and leave one to grow into a 'proper' lettuce.

But best thing to do is to challenge the rules and observe the results.
That way you'll learn what's best for you and your conditions.
--
Kay

Tim W writes

"K" wrote in message
...
Tim W writes
Iread in many places about the need to gently introduce seedlings to the
outside. What's the point of this? It sounds like a lot of fuss and
bother.

You're taking them from a warm place to where the night time temperature
will drop to a few degrees centigrade. They can adjust, but slowly. If you
don't want the bother you can.
a) put them outside straight away, choosing a time when the weather
forecast for the next few nights is for warm nights - in effect getting
the weather to do the hardening off for you. You will lose quite a few
plants this way when the temperatures dip lower than expected. Rather than
lose a few plants of each batch, you'll basically lose all of the type of
plant that doesn't like that temperature, whereas other less cold
susceptible plants will survive.
b) keep them inside until outside temperatures have caught up - some time
in late May or early June. This works if you have a greenhouse, but if you
try to do it on a windowsill, they won't get enough light and will grow
weak and leggy as they try to accelerate to more light.

Oh. So that is why they are growing until they fall over. More light it is
then.

But the hardening off. If the temperature is so low at night that plants
will be killed dead then surely I am not going to be planning to plant them
outside at all?

If they are allowed to adapt slowly, they can take more cold. A level
of cold which would set them back severely if it comes suddenly after
being snuggled up on a warm windowsill is not a problem if they've been
introduced to it slowly over a couple of weeks.
--
Kay

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 25/4/07 21:01, in article , "Tim
W"
wrote:

[...] I'm afraid I don't understand your problem.

I don't have a problem as such, just a query.

My very limited experience is that there is no need to harden off . But
every text I read states you should/must harden off before planting outside,
while none of them offer any further explanation (other than vaguely getting
the plants used to the change which doesn't ring true since the weather can
change hourly anyway) and none of them say what will happen if you don't
harden off.

So is it all going to go wrong for me next year when spring is cooler, and
how?

Tim w

On 26/4/07 22:08, in article , "Tim
W" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 25/4/07 21:01, in article , "Tim
W"
wrote:

[...] I'm afraid I don't understand your problem.

I don't have a problem as such, just a query.

My very limited experience is that there is no need to harden off . But
every text I read states you should/must harden off before planting outside,
while none of them offer any further explanation (other than vaguely getting
the plants used to the change which doesn't ring true since the weather can
change hourly anyway) and none of them say what will happen if you don't
harden off.

So is it all going to go wrong for me next year when spring is cooler, and
how?

Tim w


Perhaps you could experiment with half your plants next year? The reason
gardeners put plants out in the day time and bring them in at night is to
give them the light and sun of the slowly warming days but to protect them
from the still very cold nights. These can check growth or at worst frost
the plants. You say that the weather can change hourly anyway but it's
extremely rare for noon temperatures on an April day to plummet to midnight
temperatures without warning, if at all.
In a good year and a mild location, you might well get away with it; in
colder areas, you won't.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

Tim W writes

"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 25/4/07 21:01, in article , "Tim
W"
wrote:

[...] I'm afraid I don't understand your problem.

I don't have a problem as such, just a query.

My very limited experience is that there is no need to harden off . But
every text I read states you should/must harden off before planting outside,
while none of them offer any further explanation (other than vaguely getting
the plants used to the change which doesn't ring true since the weather can
change hourly anyway)

The temperature in your house or the greenhouse doesn't usually change
by a huge amount on an hourly basis. But you're not getting the plants
used to the fluctuation, you're getting them used to the cold bits,
which you do by getting them used to the slightly lower temperatures
during the day and gradually getting them used to the even lower
temperatures at night.

and none of them say what will happen if you don't
harden off.

So is it all going to go wrong for me next year when spring is cooler, and
how?

You may lose some plants if there is a sudden cold night. Or some plants
may die back a bit -soft young growth getting damaged.

You're a long way south. So if your experience is that your combination
of temperatures and sowing times means you don't need to harden off,
then don't do it.

--
Kay