It's been growing on the wall of my garage (south-facing) for
about 10-12 years, and has never flowered, though it produces
plenty of leaves.

Any suggestions?

"The Old OakTree" wrote in message
...
It's been growing on the wall of my garage (south-facing) for about 10-12
years, and has never flowered, though it produces plenty of leaves.

Any suggestions?


I first posted this here 10 years ago, some found it useful then:

Wisteria in its native habitat is a forest plant. Mainly it grows in forest
with a high canopy and little light down below. Its method of
growth/flowering is to climb to the top of the tree canopy and flower there
in the light. How does the plant know that it has reached the top? Simple it
reaches the top of the canopy and flops over. In flopping over the flow of
hormone from the apical bud (the one at the growing tip) is disrupted and
buds below change from growth buds to flower buds.(Look up apical dominance
in a horticultural text book for a more rigorous description)


In pruning a Wisteria we are trying to fool the plant into thinking it is in
its native habitat and has reached the top of the tree canopy. Tall order?
(;-) No! quite simple really! We disrupt the flow of hormone from the apical
bud by cutting it off!!! This simple action instructs the buds below to
switch from growth to flowering mode.


How and when to prune?


Council of perfection: Never let extension growth get beyond two buds! When
it
does cut it back! Yep! An impossible ideal.


Achievable compromise: In the main period of growth ??July/August?? first
remove all weak, tangly growth completely to leave a number of main stems
(how many depends on how old the vine is and how large an area you wish to
cover). Then remove all extension growth to six buds from the main stem.
This
action promotes the growth/flower switch. Then in the dormant period
??Jan/Feb?? cut back these six bud stubs plus any further extension growth
to
two buds from the main stem. Hey presto you have created a flowering spur.
Enjoy the show in the spring & restart the pruning process in the summer.


(Why 6 buds first? Dunno. Maybe to avoid die back?)


How old before it flowers? Difficult to say. How old when you bought? this
years graft stock or a larger nursery grown plant? And: If you want it to
grow tall to cover an area you cannot do the essential pruning hence each
years growth if extension growth only: No flowers till it reaches the end of
the area or you prune. If you prune for flower it takes for ever to cover
the area. But, and this is an essential but, make sure you buy a grafted
plant as these come from early flowering parent strains. A seedling plant
may
be a complete reversion to its forest form.....


I have followed this pruning regime on innumerable Wisteria plants some
newish some old and threatened with removal 'cos "it never flowers". I have
yet to find one which fails to respond. But, do I hear someone ask, have I
ever found one which flowered without the labour intensive pruning? Yes!!
But
in each case it was on a pergola and was grown as a "roofing" plant and if
you think about it, this situation mimics closely the plant's habitat, it
gets to the top of the pergola and flops over and flowers!! But if you want
to clothe the legs of the pergola in flower then the pruning regime must be
followed.


Sorry I seem to have waffled on for rather a long time but I hope it is
useful!




pk

On 17/1/08 23:49, in article , "The
Old OakTree" wrote:

It's been growing on the wall of my garage (south-facing) for
about 10-12 years, and has never flowered, though it produces
plenty of leaves.

Any suggestions?




If grown from seed they can take many years to flower - most grown
commercially are grafted. The graft should be visible about 12" above
ground level. If yours isn't getting enough moisture because it's in the
rain shadow of the roof of the garage it might have a problem or could the
roof itself be shading it? That said, some are just poor 'doers' and are
best dispensed with. We had an old one on the front of this house which
flowered but in a very half-hearted way and usually once the leaves were out
or coming out, so the flowers were barely seen. We chucked it out last
year.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

"PK" wrote in message
...
"The Old OakTree" wrote in message
...
It's been growing on the wall of my garage (south-facing) for about 10-12
years, and has never flowered, though it produces plenty of leaves.

Any suggestions?


I first posted this here 10 years ago, some found it useful then:

Wisteria in its native habitat is a forest plant. Mainly it grows in
forest
with a high canopy and little light down below. Its method of
growth/flowering is to climb to the top of the tree canopy and flower
there
in the light. How does the plant know that it has reached the top? Simple
it
reaches the top of the canopy and flops over. In flopping over the flow of
hormone from the apical bud (the one at the growing tip) is disrupted and
buds below change from growth buds to flower buds.(Look up apical
dominance
in a horticultural text book for a more rigorous description)


In pruning a Wisteria we are trying to fool the plant into thinking it is
in
its native habitat and has reached the top of the tree canopy. Tall order?
(;-) No! quite simple really! We disrupt the flow of hormone from the
apical
bud by cutting it off!!! This simple action instructs the buds below to
switch from growth to flowering mode.


How and when to prune?


Council of perfection: Never let extension growth get beyond two buds!
When
it
does cut it back! Yep! An impossible ideal.


Achievable compromise: In the main period of growth ??July/August?? first
remove all weak, tangly growth completely to leave a number of main stems
(how many depends on how old the vine is and how large an area you wish to
cover). Then remove all extension growth to six buds from the main stem.
This
action promotes the growth/flower switch. Then in the dormant period
??Jan/Feb?? cut back these six bud stubs plus any further extension growth
to
two buds from the main stem. Hey presto you have created a flowering spur.
Enjoy the show in the spring & restart the pruning process in the summer.


(Why 6 buds first? Dunno. Maybe to avoid die back?)


How old before it flowers? Difficult to say. How old when you bought? this
years graft stock or a larger nursery grown plant? And: If you want it to
grow tall to cover an area you cannot do the essential pruning hence each
years growth if extension growth only: No flowers till it reaches the end
of
the area or you prune. If you prune for flower it takes for ever to cover
the area. But, and this is an essential but, make sure you buy a grafted
plant as these come from early flowering parent strains. A seedling plant
may
be a complete reversion to its forest form.....


I have followed this pruning regime on innumerable Wisteria plants some
newish some old and threatened with removal 'cos "it never flowers". I
have
yet to find one which fails to respond. But, do I hear someone ask, have I
ever found one which flowered without the labour intensive pruning? Yes!!
But
in each case it was on a pergola and was grown as a "roofing" plant and if
you think about it, this situation mimics closely the plant's habitat, it
gets to the top of the pergola and flops over and flowers!! But if you
want
to clothe the legs of the pergola in flower then the pruning regime must
be
followed.


Sorry I seem to have waffled on for rather a long time but I hope it is
useful!




pk


What a superb and helpful reply pk. One of the best I have seen on this
newsgroup. Many thanks. I have printed it off and put it in the Gardening
Books :-))

Many thanks

Mike


--
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly

On 17 Jan, 23:49, "The Old OakTree" wrote:
It's been growing on the wall of my garage (south-facing) for
about 10-12 years, and has never flowered, though it produces
plenty of leaves.
Any suggestions?

To add to pk fabulous response, here some visual for winter pruning. I
assume, since you haven't mention it, that you perhaps haven't pruned
correctly. This is usually the most common cause of non-flowering
wisterias, as I found myself )

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-...eria-in-winter

On Jan 18, 12:25*am, Sacha wrote:
On 17/1/08 23:49, in article , "The

Old OakTree" wrote:
It's been growing on the wall of my garage (south-facing) for
about 10-12 years, and has never flowered, though it produces
plenty of leaves.

Any suggestions?

If grown from seed they can take many years to flower - most grown
commercially are grafted. *The graft should be visible about 12" above
ground level. If yours isn't getting enough moisture because it's in the
rain shadow of the roof of the garage it might have a problem or could the
roof itself be shading it? *That said, some are just poor 'doers' and are
best dispensed with. *We had an old one on the front of this house which
flowered but in a very half-hearted way and usually once the leaves were out
or coming out, so the flowers were barely seen. *We chucked it out last
year.
--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

I've had a look at your new site Sacha, love it and hopefully I will
see it in the Spring.

Judith

wrote in message
...
On 17 Jan, 23:49, "The Old OakTree" wrote:
It's been growing on the wall of my garage (south-facing) for
about 10-12 years, and has never flowered, though it produces
plenty of leaves.
Any suggestions?

To add to pk fabulous response, here some visual for winter pruning. I
assume, since you haven't mention it, that you perhaps haven't pruned
correctly. This is usually the most common cause of non-flowering
wisterias, as I found myself )

http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-...eria-in-winter


'Her out doors' liked the article to such a degree that she is now inspired
to grow Wisteria. We had been thinking about it for yours, I think it may be
a fact now :-))

And the video on pruning is the Icing on the cake :-))

Many thanks

Mike


--
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly

On 18/1/08 11:36, in article
,
"judith.lea" wrote:

On Jan 18, 12:25*am, Sacha wrote:
On 17/1/08 23:49, in article , "The

Old OakTree" wrote:
It's been growing on the wall of my garage (south-facing) for
about 10-12 years, and has never flowered, though it produces
plenty of leaves.

Any suggestions?

If grown from seed they can take many years to flower - most grown
commercially are grafted. *The graft should be visible about 12" above
ground level. If yours isn't getting enough moisture because it's in the
rain shadow of the roof of the garage it might have a problem or could the
roof itself be shading it? *That said, some are just poor 'doers' and are
best dispensed with. *We had an old one on the front of this house which
flowered but in a very half-hearted way and usually once the leaves were out
or coming out, so the flowers were barely seen. *We chucked it out last
year.


I've had a look at your new site Sacha, love it and hopefully I will
see it in the Spring.

Judith

Thanks, Judith. There's still plenty to 'tweak' but unfortunately the
person who has to work on it from this end isn't too well, so it might take
a while longer.

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove weeds from address)
'We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our
children.'

Sacha wrote:
On 17/1/08 23:49, in article ,
"The Old OakTree" wrote:

It's been growing on the wall of my garage (south-facing) for
about 10-12 years, and has never flowered, though it produces
plenty of leaves.

Any suggestions?




If grown from seed they can take many years to flower - most grown
commercially are grafted. The graft should be visible about 12" above
ground level.

Somewhat OT, but do you have any experience of graft failure with wisteria?

We had (have? - read on) "Amethyst" for several years. It grew very well
and flowered brilliantly (without any pruning) for 5 years. Then, suddenly,
in May 2006 its flowers started to curl up before opening properly. When
the leaves appeared, they too started to curl up and appear dry.

Not wanting to lose the plant, I tried a general fungicide, but to no avail.
Just in case it was a root problem (eg vine weevil), I used imidocloprid,
but that too had no effect. Other plants growing in close proximity remained
healthy.

I cut away all the wood down to the soil surface (intending to dig out the
large root at a later date), but do not remember seeing the graft point. In
the autumn, a shoot appeared from below ground, grew quickly to a 2 metres
in length, but then as the upper leaves opened they seemed to repeat the
"curl up and die" problem. This spring, the same thing occurred.

Can anyone shed light on this? I would love to replace the plant with
another wisteria, but do not want to waste money if it the new plant is
likely to suffer from the same problem.

I wondered if a build-up of shed leaves around the base of the plant, and
eventually around the graft, caused some sort of rot to appear. If so, I
can understand the original grafted plant dying above the graft, but why
does the roostock appear to be affected as well?

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

In article ,
"Jeff Layman" writes:
|
| We had (have? - read on) "Amethyst" for several years. It grew very well
| and flowered brilliantly (without any pruning) for 5 years. Then, suddenly,
| in May 2006 its flowers started to curl up before opening properly. When
| the leaves appeared, they too started to curl up and appear dry.

Fairly typical symptoms of some sort of root-rot.

What's the drainage like? We have had some VERY wet weather.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

That is fantastic, thank you all, but especially PK and Helene.

Now ehere did I put the secoteurs?

In article ,
says...

In article ,
"Jeff Layman" writes:
|
| We had (have? - read on) "Amethyst" for several years. It grew very well
| and flowered brilliantly (without any pruning) for 5 years. Then, suddenly,
| in May 2006 its flowers started to curl up before opening properly. When
| the leaves appeared, they too started to curl up and appear dry.

Fairly typical symptoms of some sort of root-rot.

What's the drainage like? We have had some VERY wet weather.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

They grow on the edges of swamps/wetlands in the wild so whether our wet
winter will cause it I have no idea, but some sort of phytophora root
rotting fungus does sound likely, possibly even honey fungus. the only
other thing I can think of is if it were near a path to which weedkiller
has been applied, or near a drain that may have had something nasty go
down it (its roots having got into the drain.)

To answer the other query Wisteria are root grafted, ie a piece of
seedling root about 4" long is attached to a shoot from the desired
plant, there is no possibility of the root throwing its own shoots so any
new growth is the same plant you had originally. So it will not matter
how far down you look you are unlikely to see the join.
You do not have to graft Wisteria to get a good plant, they can be done
by both summer and winter cuttings but its not easy or reliable (but
better than my grafting skills) It is seedlings that are to be avoided,
they are grown in large quantities to provide root stocks and are cheap
to buy so sometimes the unwary think they are getting a bargain (and
sometimes of course they do as the resulting plants can be good as well
as bad)
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

"The Old OakTree" wrote in message
...
That is fantastic, thank you all, but especially PK and Helene.

Now ehere did I put the secoteurs?


Could very well be in the compost heap with the previous prunings? ;-)

"Been there, done that, got the new secoteurs"

Mike



--
www.rneba.org.uk. The Royal Naval Electrical Branch Association.
'THE' Association to find your ex-Greenie mess mates.
www.iowtours.com for all ex-Service Reunions. More being added regularly

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
"Jeff Layman" writes:

We had (have? - read on) "Amethyst" for several years. It grew
very well and flowered brilliantly (without any pruning) for 5
years. Then, suddenly, in May 2006 its flowers started to curl up
before opening properly. When the leaves appeared, they too
started to curl up and appear dry.

Fairly typical symptoms of some sort of root-rot.

What's the drainage like? We have had some VERY wet weather.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Drainage is ok. This happened around May 2006.

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)

Charlie Pridham wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article ,
"Jeff Layman" writes:

We had (have? - read on) "Amethyst" for several years. It grew
very well and flowered brilliantly (without any pruning) for 5
years. Then, suddenly, in May 2006 its flowers started to curl up
before opening properly. When the leaves appeared, they too
started to curl up and appear dry.

Fairly typical symptoms of some sort of root-rot.

What's the drainage like? We have had some VERY wet weather.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

They grow on the edges of swamps/wetlands in the wild so whether our
wet winter will cause it I have no idea, but some sort of phytophora
root rotting fungus does sound likely, possibly even honey fungus.
the only other thing I can think of is if it were near a path to
which weedkiller has been applied, or near a drain that may have had
something nasty go down it (its roots having got into the drain.)

I wondered about phytopthora. I do hope it's not! No weedkiller around
that, and, as I said, other plants next to it were/are unaffected. Also no
drains around.


To answer the other query Wisteria are root grafted, ie a piece of
seedling root about 4" long is attached to a shoot from the desired
plant, there is no possibility of the root throwing its own shoots so
any new growth is the same plant you had originally. So it will not
matter how far down you look you are unlikely to see the join.
You do not have to graft Wisteria to get a good plant, they can be
done by both summer and winter cuttings but its not easy or reliable
(but better than my grafting skills) It is seedlings that are to be
avoided, they are grown in large quantities to provide root stocks
and are cheap to buy so sometimes the unwary think they are getting a
bargain (and sometimes of course they do as the resulting plants can
be good as well as bad)

Interesting. I was basing my reply about the graft on Sacha's posting. So
it looks like I still have "Amethyst", but if it stays sick I will dig it
up. Pity - it was a good plant that flowered well without pruning.

--
Jeff
(cut "thetape" to reply)