Sixteen years ago I moved into this house and the small front garden was
covered over in red tiles. On learning that there was substantial hardcore
under the tiles I decided not to dig them up, so I heaped about 18 to 20
inches of soil *on top* of the tiles.

I then planted this pine tree in the photo, (see tinypic link) believing
that the roots would merely travel along *on top* of the tiles.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=651wgg&s=5

Recently a tree man knocked at the door and said he thought that almost
certainly the roots have found there way downwards through the tiles. If
this is the case I'm worried about the house foundations since the tree is
so very near the front wall.

Would anyone kindly explain to a complete novice what would be the basic
steps I should now take in dealing with this tree which might be a serious
threat to the house. Thanks.

That looks awfully like a Cedrus deodar, not a pine. The Deodar can grow to some 70 feet or more and is not a good tree for a small garden. I woulds plan to remove it and find something more suitable for the space and conditions. Any tree will force its roots downwards to where there is accessible water, and any tree which only has its roots along the surface of tiles in the way you suggest is likely to be highly unstable.

If it is a question of whether the roots are affecting your neighbour's drains, you can find out by organising a survey of the drains by camera.

"john royce" wrote in message
...
Sixteen years ago I moved into this house and the small front garden was
covered over in red tiles. On learning that there was substantial
hardcore under the tiles I decided not to dig them up, so I heaped about
18 to 20 inches of soil *on top* of the tiles.

I then planted this pine tree in the photo, (see tinypic link) believing
that the roots would merely travel along *on top* of the tiles.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=651wgg&s=5

Recently a tree man knocked at the door and said he thought that almost
certainly the roots have found there way downwards through the tiles. If
this is the case I'm worried about the house foundations since the tree is
so very near the front wall.

Would anyone kindly explain to a complete novice what would be the basic
steps I should now take in dealing with this tree which might be a serious
threat to the house. Thanks.

Take some advice from a proper tree surgeon rather than an Irish traveller
who is interested in taking your money.

Tina

In message , john royce
writes
Sixteen years ago I moved into this house and the small front garden was
covered over in red tiles. On learning that there was substantial hardcore
under the tiles I decided not to dig them up, so I heaped about 18 to 20
inches of soil *on top* of the tiles.

I then planted this pine tree in the photo, (see tinypic link) believing
that the roots would merely travel along *on top* of the tiles.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=651wgg&s=5

Recently a tree man knocked at the door and said he thought that almost
certainly the roots have found there way downwards through the tiles. If
this is the case I'm worried about the house foundations since the tree is
so very near the front wall.

Would anyone kindly explain to a complete novice what would be the basic
steps I should now take in dealing with this tree which might be a serious
threat to the house. Thanks.

My first reaction is to say don't pay the cold caller large sums of
money until you get a second opinion. :-)
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply

In message , Christina Websell
writes

"john royce" wrote in message
...
Sixteen years ago I moved into this house and the small front garden was
covered over in red tiles. On learning that there was substantial
hardcore under the tiles I decided not to dig them up, so I heaped about
18 to 20 inches of soil *on top* of the tiles.

I then planted this pine tree in the photo, (see tinypic link) believing
that the roots would merely travel along *on top* of the tiles.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=651wgg&s=5

Recently a tree man knocked at the door and said he thought that almost
certainly the roots have found there way downwards through the tiles. If
this is the case I'm worried about the house foundations since the tree is
so very near the front wall.

Would anyone kindly explain to a complete novice what would be the basic
steps I should now take in dealing with this tree which might be a serious
threat to the house. Thanks.

Take some advice from a proper tree surgeon rather than an Irish traveller
who is interested in taking your money.

Tina

GMTA. :-)
--
Gordon H
Remove "invalid" to reply

On May 18, 8:51*pm, "john royce" wrote:
Sixteen years ago I moved into this house and the small front garden was
covered over in red tiles. *On learning that there was substantial hardcore
under the tiles I decided not to dig them up, so I heaped about 18 to 20
inches of soil *on top* of the tiles.

I then planted this pine tree in the photo, *(see tinypic link) *believing
that the roots would merely travel along *on top* of the tiles.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=651wgg&s=5

* Recently a tree man knocked at the door and said he thought that almost
certainly the roots have found there way downwards through the tiles. *If
this is the case I'm worried about the house foundations since the tree is
so very near the front wall.

Would anyone kindly explain to a complete novice what would be the basic
steps I should now take in dealing with this tree which might be a serious
threat to the house. * Thanks.

The basic steps are that you will have the tree removed. We have had
several trees removed, particularly at our last house. 1 was a
diseased oak, the safety risk to us was important so we employed a
firm who specialised in taking down trees. They carry professional
cover insurance so that if the tree damaged adjoining property; we
would be covered. It's not as expensive as you might think also they
will, if you wish, cut up the tree for logs or they will take it
away. You have taken the first step in deciding to have it removed,
well done.

Judith

john royce wrote:

Recently a tree man knocked at the door and said he thought that almost
certainly the roots have found there way downwards through the tiles. If
this is the case I'm worried about the house foundations since the tree is
so very near the front wall.

A near neighbour of mine has apparently been the victim of a
scam. Some itinerants called, and told him that he had to let
them trim several large trees because the chap next door had
complained, which was completely untrue.

To say the result was butchery would be an understatement. They
didn't remove any material, and charged him £400 for the job.

I have to say that your tree does look a little close to the
house. Does your insurance require you to tell them about
anything over a certain size?

If you want advice, seek out a reputable professional, don't
respond to cold callers.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

In article ,
says...

john royce;845678 Wrote:
Sixteen years ago I moved into this house and the small front garden was

covered over in red tiles. On learning that there was substantial
hardcore
under the tiles I decided not to dig them up, so I heaped about 18 to
20
inches of soil *on top* of the tiles.

I then planted this pine tree in the photo, (see tinypic link)
believing
that the roots would merely travel along *on top* of the tiles.

http://tinyurl.com/o6v6hk

Recently a tree man knocked at the door and said he thought that
almost
certainly the roots have found there way downwards through the tiles.
If
this is the case I'm worried about the house foundations since the tree
is
so very near the front wall.

Would anyone kindly explain to a complete novice what would be the
basic
steps I should now take in dealing with this tree which might be a
serious
threat to the house. Thanks.

That looks awfully like a Cedrus deodar, not a pine. The Deodar can
grow to some 70 feet or more and is not a good tree for a small garden.
I woulds plan to remove it and find something more suitable for the
space and conditions. Any tree will force its roots downwards to where
there is accessible water, and any tree which only has its roots along
the surface of tiles in the way you suggest is likely to be highly
unstable.

If it is a question of whether the roots are affecting your neighbour's
drains, you can find out by organising a survey of the drains by camera.





I agree its a cedar and its right in front of a window, now its got its
feet down it will start to "really" grow! up till now its just been
biding its time. Get it down now while you still can without a second
mortgage, if you want a replacement conifer there are lots of smaller
growing ones but try and chose one that can be pruned as even the dwarfs
can get big over time
--
Charlie Pridham, Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of national collections of Clematis viticella cultivars and
Lapageria rosea

As another poster says, what you have is a deodar cedar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deodar_cedar.

The largest subsidence risk results from the combination of
(1) deciduous trees
(2) clay soils
See for example
http://www.bureauinsure.co.uk/what_are_trees.htm

So having a conifer you are already not in the worst position, but I don't know what your local soil type is. Assuredly your tree will not find 18" of soil enough and as a mountain species it will be accustomed to rooting down among rocks.

But as the previous poster said, deodars (very similar to cedar of lebanon) can grow to be very large trees indeed. I've seen them with trunks over 6ft in diameter in England. They obtain such a size much quicker than oaks, etc, massive examples are less than 100 yrs old. They are not just tall, but also gain a very broad spread. Though yours is clearly in a less than ideal site and won't grow so well as the huge examples I know. It is evident from the lack of branches on the house side of the tree that it is suffering form the proximity to the house. In general they rae not a suitable tree close to buildings and in small gardens.

So all in all, it is a tree in the wrong place. A good idea to take it down now while it is a manageable size and put in something more suitable. There are genuinely small varieties of conifers, especially certain juniper cultivars, which would be more suitable if you want a small tree close to your house. If you really like cedars, there is a weeping form of blue cedar, cedrus atlantica pendula, which stays small.

echinosum writes
The largest subsidence risk results from the combination of
(1) deciduous trees
(2) clay soils
See for example
http://tinyurl.com/qhkzz5

Thank you - a heartwarming link (for someone in a clay soil which is not
London clay, in a pre-1900 house which is not detached)

" * Detached properties have a greater susceptibility to subsidence
or heave damage than non-detached properties.
* Properties built prior to 1900 are less susceptible to damage than
those built thereafter
* London clay is, by far, the most commonly encountered "problem"
soil.
* It typically takes about 50 years between construction and
perception of damage, while only about 6% of cases occurred in the first
10 years after construction.
* The likelihood of a property being underpinned following damage
generally increases with the level of damage
* Oak trees are, by far, the most damaging species of tree. "

Still feel I did the right thing in persuading the Church to cut back
their beech tree (3m from our house) so that its branches no longer
sweep our roof tiles ;-)
--
Kay

K wrote:
echinosum writes
The largest subsidence risk results from the combination of
(1) deciduous trees
(2) clay soils
See for example
http://tinyurl.com/qhkzz5

Thank you - a heartwarming link (for someone in a clay soil which is not
London clay, in a pre-1900 house which is not detached)

" * Detached properties have a greater susceptibility to subsidence
or heave damage than non-detached properties.
* Properties built prior to 1900 are less susceptible to damage than
those built thereafter
* London clay is, by far, the most commonly encountered "problem" soil.
* It typically takes about 50 years between construction and
perception of damage, while only about 6% of cases occurred in the first
10 years after construction.
* The likelihood of a property being underpinned following damage
generally increases with the level of damage
* Oak trees are, by far, the most damaging species of tree. "

Still feel I did the right thing in persuading the Church to cut back
their beech tree (3m from our house) so that its branches no longer
sweep our roof tiles ;-)
Also be aware that cutting down trees can cause problems. Extensive
roots rot then the soil shifts to fill the holes. Three Houses near
where I used to live had problems after three large trees were felled.

--
Please reply to group,emails to designated
address are never read.

On May 19, 3:38*pm, K wrote:
echinosum writes

The largest subsidence risk results from the combination of
(1) deciduous trees
(2) clay soils
See for example
http://tinyurl.com/qhkzz5

Thank you - a heartwarming link (for someone in a clay soil which is not
London clay, in a pre-1900 house which is not detached)

* " * * *Detached properties have a greater susceptibility to subsidence
or heave damage than non-detached properties.
* * ** Properties built prior to 1900 are less susceptible to damage than
those built thereafter
* * ** London clay is, by far, the most commonly encountered "problem"
soil.
* * ** It typically takes about 50 years between construction and
perception of damage, while only about 6% of cases occurred in the first
10 years after construction.
* * ** The likelihood of a property being underpinned following damage
generally increases with the level of damage
* * ** Oak trees are, by far, the most damaging species of tree. "

Still feel I did the right thing in persuading the Church to cut back
their beech tree (3m from our house) so that its branches no longer
sweep our roof tiles ;-)
--
Kay

I seem to remember that you had a row of Lleyandi along the drive with
the Church. I can't remember if they took them down or not?

Judith

Broadback writes
Also be aware that cutting down trees can cause problems. Extensive
roots rot then the soil shifts to fill the holes.

Is that the mechanism? I thought it was that the trees were no longer
taking up the ground water, so the soil volume increased because of the
extra water, so you got 'heave' as opposed to subsidence.
--
Kay

Judith in France writes

I seem to remember that you had a row of Lleyandi along the drive with
the Church. I can't remember if they took them down or not?

There's two sets of Leylandii. There are our four, which block the view
of the rather boring side of the Church, and there's their half dozen
around the war memorial out the front. We've taken the tops out of ours,
so they're now about 15 feet high. They've also topped theirs. more
recently, and I guess theirs are about 10 ft high. None are a problem to
us atm as they're all some distance from the house. The only tree near
to the house is the beech.

We may top ours again, and we are considering taking them out one by
one, and letting the bay tree have more room - it's as tall as the
leylandiis and growing at much the same speed.

--
Kay

"Gordon H" wrote in message
news
In message , Christina Websell
writes

"john royce" wrote in message
...
Sixteen years ago I moved into this house and the small front garden was
covered over in red tiles. On learning that there was substantial
hardcore under the tiles I decided not to dig them up, so I heaped about
18 to 20 inches of soil *on top* of the tiles.

I then planted this pine tree in the photo, (see tinypic link)
believing
that the roots would merely travel along *on top* of the tiles.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=651wgg&s=5

Recently a tree man knocked at the door and said he thought that almost
certainly the roots have found there way downwards through the tiles.
If
this is the case I'm worried about the house foundations since the tree
is
so very near the front wall.

Would anyone kindly explain to a complete novice what would be the basic
steps I should now take in dealing with this tree which might be a
serious
threat to the house. Thanks.

Take some advice from a proper tree surgeon rather than an Irish traveller
who is interested in taking your money.

Tina

GMTA. :-)

Travellers are a proper nuisance here, they want to prune my conifers or
offer to take away "my old car" or replace my drive which I spent a lot of
money on 5 years ago.
My old car? The one I use every day FGS.

Tina