"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 01:22:07 +0100, "Clive" wrote:

snip

The Police will only visit the accused person IF there is evidence to
prove
beyond reasonable doubt that he/she comitted the offence.

No wonder the solved crime rate is so low.

Maybe you are wrong.

A criminal has been committed,


If only it were true! :~))

Spider



the police are there to
identify who committed the crime.
--

Martin

This is Bigal and before I retired I used to be a social worker (you can boo if you like)I worked with a whole range of peoples poblems - you could say from the cradle to the grave. Certainly one of the groups was people of limited intellgence and you cannot be sure how they will react to a given situation.
The information about this person is very limited -does he live alone, live with parents, live with a group, live with a partner. Are social services involved with him. The people he lives with might be very protective of him. He might show aggression very easily. Why was that particular allotment attacked? It might be jealousy, it might be personal, it might have random.
What I am saying is for gods sake do not try and tackle this alone or with a group. Do not confront him an any way. That is a job for the police who should be informed in the first place, and if necessary will contact a social worker who might know him. The other thing of course is how limited is limited intelligence? All that can play a part in a behavioural reaction, although high intelligence can still produce a vicious reaction.
PLEASE. PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL HOW YOU DEAL WITH THIS AND LEAVE IT TO THE PROPER AUTHORITIES.

"Clive" wrote in message
...

"Angela" wrote in message
om...

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
o.uk...
| My daughter has had her allotment ruined, she grows flowers shrubs etc.
at
| home and keeps the allotment for vegetables and soft fruit, She is very
keen
| gardener and competes at local flower shows etc. Her allotment is or
was
| organic and she grows herbs amongst the veg, I am telling you this cos
it
| says the sort of gardener she is. However a few days ago someone put
| weedkiller all over the plants and yesterday after being away for a
camping
| weekend she found that someone had pulled up all the plants and burnt
the
| lot. She knows who it was but cannot contact them, the fact that the
person
| involved is of limited intelligence makes it almost impossible to take
the
| matter further. I feel so sad for her :-(
|
| kate
|

It's criminal damage - she should contact the police - even if nothing
can
be done a visit from the police would go a long way in making sure she/he
doesn't do it again!


The Police will only visit the accused person IF there is evidence to
prove
beyond reasonable doubt that he/she comitted the offence. If there were
any witnesses or CCTV or even an admission from the person this will be
a start. You think you know who it is, but proving it is another thing.

Would ringing the suspected offender up, and tricking them into *not*
denying that they did it and recording the conversation count as enough to
get the police to pay a visit to the offender?

On 2009-07-02 16:50:30 +0100, "john royce" said:


"Clive" wrote in message
...
snip

The Police will only visit the accused person IF there is evidence to
prove
beyond reasonable doubt that he/she comitted the offence. If there were
any witnesses or CCTV or even an admission from the person this will be
a start. You think you know who it is, but proving it is another thing.

Would ringing the suspected offender up, and tricking them into *not*
denying that they did it and recording the conversation count as enough to
get the police to pay a visit to the offender?

It's illegal to record a phone call without telling your interlocutor
that you're doing so.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-07-02 16:50:30 +0100, "john royce" said:


"Clive" wrote in message
...
snip

The Police will only visit the accused person IF there is evidence to
prove
beyond reasonable doubt that he/she comitted the offence. If there were
any witnesses or CCTV or even an admission from the person this will be
a start. You think you know who it is, but proving it is another thing.

Would ringing the suspected offender up, and tricking them into *not*
denying that they did it and recording the conversation count as enough
to
get the police to pay a visit to the offender?

It's illegal to record a phone call without telling your interlocutor that
you're doing so.

illegal to who? Lord Keith Vaz recently recorded a private phone
conversation with Mayor Boris Johnson and made the contents publicly known.
Not so illegal then ?

In message , john royce
writes

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-07-02 16:50:30 +0100, "john royce" said:


"Clive" wrote in message
...
snip

The Police will only visit the accused person IF there is evidence to
prove
beyond reasonable doubt that he/she comitted the offence. If there were
any witnesses or CCTV or even an admission from the person this will be
a start. You think you know who it is, but proving it is another thing.

Would ringing the suspected offender up, and tricking them into *not*
denying that they did it and recording the conversation count as enough
to
get the police to pay a visit to the offender?

It's illegal to record a phone call without telling your interlocutor that
you're doing so.

illegal to who? Lord Keith Vaz recently recorded a private phone
conversation with Mayor Boris Johnson and made the contents publicly known.
Not so illegal then ?


The person being recorded has to be told that the call may be recorded
for security (or other) purposes, I believe, even if it's in a recorded
message announced before the conversation begins.
--
June Hughes

Is anyone actually taking any notice of what I have been saying? Limited intelligence does not mean limited danger... If anything it could be worse. You would perhaps understand what I mean if you had been chased out a house by someone of limited intelligence because someone had told her that I was coming to take her away. That had been used as a threat because of misbehaviour at home and was not the intention at all and was in fact just a routine visit. If the police deal with it, it takes it out of the hands of the allotment holder. Nobody knows why this allotment was vandalised, and believe me I would rather the police find out why. In battle, the brave and the foolhardy are the ones that die. It might end up as absolutely nothing to worry about at all but it rea lly is not worth the risk.
Bigal.

On 2009-07-02 17:17:27 +0100, "john royce" said:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-07-02 16:50:30 +0100, "john royce" said:


"Clive" wrote in message
...
snip

The Police will only visit the accused person IF there is evidence to
prove
beyond reasonable doubt that he/she comitted the offence. If there were
any witnesses or CCTV or even an admission from the person this will be
a start. You think you know who it is, but proving it is another thing.

Would ringing the suspected offender up, and tricking them into *not*
denying that they did it and recording the conversation count as enough
to
get the police to pay a visit to the offender?

It's illegal to record a phone call without telling your interlocutor that
you're doing so.

illegal to who? Lord Keith Vaz recently recorded a private phone
conversation with Mayor Boris Johnson and made the contents publicly known.
Not so illegal then ?

It is illegal if you intend to make the contents known to a third
party, to be more precise. So, if you record a conversation between
yourself and someone else and don't tell the someone else that you
intend to pass it on to e.g. the police, that would be illegal, AIUI.
You would need the permission of your correspondent to pass the tape on
to a third party. That is why you hear those "your phone call may be
recorded for trainining purposes" announcements. You're being warned
that your conversation may be heard by someone other than yourself and
the person you're actually talking to.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

Not so illegal then ?

It is illegal if you intend to make the contents known to a third party,
to be more precise. So, if you record a conversation between yourself and
someone else and don't tell the someone else that you intend to pass it on
to e.g. the police, that would be illegal, AIUI. You would need the
permission of your correspondent to pass the tape on to a third party.
That is why you hear those "your phone call may be recorded for trainining
purposes" announcements. You're being warned that your conversation may
be heard by someone other than yourself and the person you're actually
talking to.
--
Sacha


Correct

Mike

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-07-02 17:17:27 +0100, "john royce"
said:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2009-07-02 16:50:30 +0100, "john royce"
said:


"Clive" wrote in message
...
snip

The Police will only visit the accused person IF there is
evidence to
prove
beyond reasonable doubt that he/she comitted the offence.
If there were
any witnesses or CCTV or even an admission from the person
this will be
a start. You think you know who it is, but proving it is
another thing.

Would ringing the suspected offender up, and tricking them
into *not*
denying that they did it and recording the conversation
count as enough
to
get the police to pay a visit to the offender?

It's illegal to record a phone call without telling your
interlocutor that
you're doing so.

illegal to who? Lord Keith Vaz recently recorded a private
phone
conversation with Mayor Boris Johnson and made the contents
publicly known.
Not so illegal then ?

It is illegal if you intend to make the contents known to a
third party, to be more precise. So, if you record a
conversation between yourself and someone else and don't tell
the someone else that you intend to pass it on to e.g. the
police, that would be illegal, AIUI. You would need the
permission of your correspondent to pass the tape on to a third
party. That is why you hear those "your phone call may be
recorded for trainining purposes" announcements. You're being
warned that your conversation may be heard by someone other
than yourself and the person you're actually talking to.

I sometimes like to wind up the likes of BT when they call by
saying "yes I am interested in what you are selling but do not
consent to being recorded". The next step is quite interesting,
try it some time.

Mike

Sacha wrote:

It is illegal if you intend to make the contents known to a third party,
to be more precise.

Knowing the police, if someone handed them a tape with such a
conversation they would be more interested in prosecuting the person who
brought the tape in for not having consent from the person recorded!
Rather like the poor sod who took a mobile phone to the police station
that he'd found laying on the street and the police locked him in a cell
for several hours and accused him of stealing the phone! In my limited
experience with the UK police they are petty, vindictive and incompetent
and best avoided.

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

Martin wrote:


Ditto French traffic police?

Years ago, I was a passenger in a hire car in Versailles that was hit by a car
driving at speed, both cars were a write off. The police arrived, being aliens
it was all our fault, until with a bit of prompting, the police noticed the
other driver smelt of drink, had no driving licence, the car was untaxed and
uninsured BUT the driver was the chauffeur of a lawyer with a Champs Elysées
address and he was driving her car. We had to wait while she drove from Paris.
She admitted it was all her drivers fault, the lack of insurance etc. were
oversights. Three months later the guy who had been driving the car I was in,
received a nominal fine through the post and a letter saying that it had been
decided he was responsible fir the accident.

Ouch! I have no personal experience with the French police. Asked one
for directions once that's all. However, I do get the impression that
France is more a country of "who you know" i.e. low level corruption
than the UK. I think there tends to be racism towards foreigners in all
countries too to a certain extent. Add the two together and it fits your
accident outcome. It all adds to my general feeling that police are best
avoided - if possible!

--
David in Normandy.
To e-mail you must include the password FROG on the
subject line, or it will be automatically deleted
by a filter and not reach my inbox.

Kate Morgan wrote:
My daughter has had her allotment ruined, she grows flowers shrubs etc.
at home and keeps the allotment for vegetables and soft fruit, She is
very keen gardener and competes at local flower shows etc. Her allotment
is or was organic and she grows herbs amongst the veg, I am telling you
this cos it says the sort of gardener she is. However a few days ago
someone put weedkiller all over the plants and yesterday after being away
for a camping weekend she found that someone had pulled up all the plants
and burnt the lot. She knows who it was but cannot contact them, the fact
that the person involved is of limited intelligence makes it almost
impossible to take the matter further. I feel so sad for her :-(

kate

The young man who damaged my daughters allotment is being dealt with within
the community, it is a very small community, the sort where everyone knows
everyone else, there are only 6 allotments on the piece of ground in full
view of the High St so there has never been any need for supervision of any
sort.
One possible reason for his behavior is that he wanted an allotment for
himself but there was not one available, maybe he thought by discrediting my
daughter he would get hers or that she would give up, who knows. the police
were not officially involved but in such a small place I am sure that they
would know about it. He has been told not to go near the plots and the other
gardeners and people living nearby will be watchful.
My daughter has got over the shock now and appreciates the words of help
and encouragement that you have all posted, she is determined to start again
and make the plot even better than it was before :-)
Thank you all very much

kate

On 2009-07-03 21:33:06 +0100, "Kate Morgan" said:



Kate Morgan wrote:
My daughter has had her allotment ruined, she grows flowers shrubs etc.
at home and keeps the allotment for vegetables and soft fruit, She is
very keen gardener and competes at local flower shows etc. Her
allotment is or was organic and she grows herbs amongst the veg, I am
telling you this cos it says the sort of gardener she is. However a few
days ago someone put weedkiller all over the plants and yesterday after
being away for a camping weekend she found that someone had pulled up
all the plants and burnt the lot. She knows who it was but cannot
contact them, the fact that the person involved is of limited
intelligence makes it almost impossible to take the matter further. I
feel so sad for her :-(

kate

The young man who damaged my daughters allotment is being dealt with
within the community, it is a very small community, the sort where
everyone knows everyone else, there are only 6 allotments on the piece
of ground in full view of the High St so there has never been any need
for supervision of any sort.
One possible reason for his behavior is that he wanted an allotment for
himself but there was not one available, maybe he thought by
discrediting my daughter he would get hers or that she would give up,
who knows. the police were not officially involved but in such a small
place I am sure that they would know about it. He has been told not to
go near the plots and the other gardeners and people living nearby will
be watchful.
My daughter has got over the shock now and appreciates the words of
help and encouragement that you have all posted, she is determined to
start again and make the plot even better than it was before :-)
Thank you all very much

kate

Glad to hear it, Kate - she's obviously resilient! If the police do at
least know about it, they can keep a watchful eye and I hope the man
concerned is aware of that.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
Shrubs & perennials. Tender & exotics.
South Devon

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
o.uk...


Kate Morgan wrote:
My daughter has had her allotment ruined, she grows flowers shrubs etc.
at home and keeps the allotment for vegetables and soft fruit, She is
very keen gardener and competes at local flower shows etc. Her allotment
is or was organic and she grows herbs amongst the veg, I am telling you
this cos it says the sort of gardener she is. However a few days ago
someone put weedkiller all over the plants and yesterday after being
away for a camping weekend she found that someone had pulled up all the
plants and burnt the lot. She knows who it was but cannot contact them,
the fact that the person involved is of limited intelligence makes it
almost impossible to take the matter further. I feel so sad for her :-(

kate

The young man who damaged my daughters allotment is being dealt with
within the community, it is a very small community, the sort where
everyone knows everyone else, there are only 6 allotments on the piece of
ground in full view of the High St so there has never been any need for
supervision of any sort.
One possible reason for his behavior is that he wanted an allotment for
himself but there was not one available, maybe he thought by discrediting
my daughter he would get hers or that she would give up, who knows. the
police were not officially involved but in such a small place I am sure
that they would know about it. He has been told not to go near the plots
and the other gardeners and people living nearby will be watchful.
My daughter has got over the shock now and appreciates the words of help
and encouragement that you have all posted, she is determined to start
again and make the plot even better than it was before :-)
Thank you all very much

kate

Good luck to her. Hope she has a good - if belated - growing season.
Spider