The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends involved)
from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are fitted with
taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water from the lower barrel
B as it is a little more accessible. How best to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to
the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?

Thanks for replies in advance.

Ed

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I want
to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends involved) from
the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are fitted with taps, but I
would always prefer to drain the water from the lower barrel B as it is a
little more accessible. How best to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to the
lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?

Thanks for replies in advance.

Ed




The thing to remember is that the level in each barrel will be the same.
I'm not saying that both will be 2 (or 3 or whatever) inches below the rim
but that if you place a spirit level at the height of water in the lower
barrel the upper barrel will be at that level so if the lower barrel is 1ft
below the upper and the lower is full the height of water in the upper
barrel will be 1 ft below the rim.

So, if you connect from the top of the upper barrel it will only flow to the
bottom barrel when the top barrel is full.
If you connect the bottom of the top barrel to the bottom barrel (doesn't
matter where) any water entering the top barrel will immediately flow to the
bottom barrel which sounds good.
However, in both cases, once the bottom barrel is full the top barrel will
continue to fill and because the water level is trying to be higher than the
lower barrel the lower barrel will accept the water by overflowing.

In other words, don't do it.
It's all because the two will want to be at the same level so the top one
will always be wanting to push water through to the lower one.

Two possible solutions.
Use a pump to move the water.
Take a second feed from the shed roof to the 2nd barrel. If it's an Apex
roof one side could feed the upper and the other the lower.

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I want
to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends involved) from
the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are fitted with taps, but I
would always prefer to drain the water from the lower barrel B as it is a
little more accessible. How best to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to the
lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?


It depends whether you can put in a tap/isolator of some kind between the
two, otherwise -

1 or 2 will fill both tanks, but B will not start to fill until A is full.

3 or 4 will drain A into B and leave A empty.

Assuming the tanks can't be made level then the best way would be a
combination of either 1 or 2 and either 3 or 4, whichever is easiest, but
again a tap between the two will be needed. Then when it rains, A will fill
first, then the overflow will fill B. Then in a dry spell, you will empty B,
then open the tap to let water flow from A to B. If you only use 3 or 4, you
will need to be there to close the tap when B is full in order to fill A,
and that may be difficult in times of little rainfall.

1 is better than 2 because you won't need to seal against leakage at B. 3 is
better than 4 for the same reason.

Steve

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I want
to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends involved) from
the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are fitted with taps, but I
would always prefer to drain the water from the lower barrel B as it is a
little more accessible. How best to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to the
lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?

Thanks for replies in advance.

Ed


3 with a ballcock valve to cut off the supply when B is full.

--

Jeff

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I want
to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends involved) from
the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are fitted with taps, but I
would always prefer to drain the water from the lower barrel B as it is a
little more accessible. How best to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to the
lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?

Thanks for replies in advance.

Ed




Go for option 1.

I decided to install a water butt last year and discovered that it filled up
in abut three quarters of an hour after heavy rain. When I saw it
overflowing, I decided to put another butt along side it and fed the
overflow from the top of butt "A" into the top of butt"B". Both have taps
and the system works brilliantly.. Placed butt B a few inches below Butt
"A" to make the connection easier.

Hope this helps.

Bill

"Graham Harrison" wrote in message
...

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends involved)
from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are fitted with taps,
but I would always prefer to drain the water from the lower barrel B as
it is a little more accessible. How best to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to
the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?

Thanks for replies in advance.

Ed




The thing to remember is that the level in each barrel will be the same.
I'm not saying that both will be 2 (or 3 or whatever) inches below the rim
but that if you place a spirit level at the height of water in the lower
barrel the upper barrel will be at that level so if the lower barrel is
1ft below the upper and the lower is full the height of water in the upper
barrel will be 1 ft below the rim.

So, if you connect from the top of the upper barrel it will only flow to
the bottom barrel when the top barrel is full.
If you connect the bottom of the top barrel to the bottom barrel (doesn't
matter where) any water entering the top barrel will immediately flow to
the bottom barrel which sounds good.
However, in both cases, once the bottom barrel is full the top barrel will
continue to fill and because the water level is trying to be higher than
the lower barrel the lower barrel will accept the water by overflowing.

In other words, don't do it.
It's all because the two will want to be at the same level so the top one
will always be wanting to push water through to the lower one.

Two possible solutions.
Use a pump to move the water.
Take a second feed from the shed roof to the 2nd barrel. If it's an Apex
roof one side could feed the upper and the other the lower.

I think you're taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut here !

Bill

In message , Graham Harrison
writes

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
news:1P2dnYAU6ugTHy7WnZ2dnUVZ8tKdnZ2d@brightview. co.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends
involved) from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are
fitted with taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water from
the lower barrel B as it is a little more accessible. How best to
connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to
the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?

Thanks for replies in advance.

Ed




The thing to remember is that the level in each barrel will be the
same.


However, in both cases, once the bottom barrel is full the top barrel
will continue to fill and because the water level is trying to be
higher than the lower barrel the lower barrel will accept the water by
overflowing.

In other words, don't do it.

Why? the water will have to overflow somewhere? If they are the same
height it will just overflow from both at the same time :-)

Having B lower isn't optimal , as you won't have two full butts, but if
it's only a bit it isn't the end of the world. B can always be raised a
bit.

Me Ilike the lazy solution of using a hose pipe as a siphon to connect
butts round the garden, as detailed a bit more in the OP's same thread
on uk-d-i-y (a case when cross posting would have been better really)
--
Chris French

On 31/03/10 19:50, shazzbat wrote:

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends
involved) from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are
fitted with taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water from
the lower barrel B as it is a little more accessible. How best to
connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to
the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?


It depends whether you can put in a tap/isolator of some kind between
the two, otherwise -

1 or 2 will fill both tanks, but B will not start to fill until A is full.

3 or 4 will drain A into B and leave A empty.

Assuming the tanks can't be made level then the best way would be a
combination of either 1 or 2 and either 3 or 4, whichever is easiest,
but again a tap between the two will be needed. Then when it rains, A
will fill first, then the overflow will fill B. Then in a dry spell, you
will empty B, then open the tap to let water flow from A to B. If you
only use 3 or 4, you will need to be there to close the tap when B is
full in order to fill A, and that may be difficult in times of little
rainfall.

1 is better than 2 because you won't need to seal against leakage at B.
3 is better than 4 for the same reason.

Steve



Two things: Firstly, both tanks are already fitted with taps at the
bottom. Secondly, the difference in levels between the tops of the two
tanks is only about 1 foot, so I could easily raise the level of the
lower tank by standing on some breeze blocks so that they were about the
same.

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ? Then, when I want to draw off some water, I
would close both taps, pull of the hose from the lower tank , place a
water can under it, and turn the lower top on to fill.

That should be OK , I think?

Ed

On 01/04/2010 10:37 Ed wrote:

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ? Then, when I want to draw off some water, I
would close both taps, pull of the hose from the lower tank , place a
water can under it, and turn the lower top on to fill.

That's probably asking for leaks sooner or later, which is why I
connected mine at the top: less pressure on the connections.

--
F

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/03/10 19:50, shazzbat wrote:

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends involved)
from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are fitted with
taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water from the lower barrel
B as it is a little more accessible. How best to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to
the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?


It depends whether you can put in a tap/isolator of some kind between the
two, otherwise -

1 or 2 will fill both tanks, but B will not start to fill until A is
full.

3 or 4 will drain A into B and leave A empty.

Assuming the tanks can't be made level then the best way would be a
combination of either 1 or 2 and either 3 or 4, whichever is easiest, but
again a tap between the two will be needed. Then when it rains, A will
fill first, then the overflow will fill B. Then in a dry spell, you will
empty B, then open the tap to let water flow from A to B. If you only use
3 or 4, you will need to be there to close the tap when B is full in
order to fill A, and that may be difficult in times of little rainfall.

1 is better than 2 because you won't need to seal against leakage at B. 3
is better than 4 for the same reason.

Steve



Two things: Firstly, both tanks are already fitted with taps at the
bottom. Secondly, the difference in levels between the tops of the two
tanks is only about 1 foot, so I could easily raise the level of the lower
tank by standing on some breeze blocks so that they were about the same.

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between the
two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so that
both barrels fill ? Then, when I want to draw off some water, I would
close both taps, pull of the hose from the lower tank , place a water can
under it, and turn the lower top on to fill.

That should be OK , I think?

Ed

I've connected two butts (at a friends) at the same level by installing a
brass tank connector (15mm) halfway up both butts and connecting both
together with a length of hose. This way the first will fill the second
only when it's a least half full and, as the butts are 40ft apart, there
should always be some water at both ends of the garden as it is impossible
to completely drain both butts from one tap.

In my own garden I have four butts connected in series, down a slope,
connected with a hose and the lower ones fitted with ballcocks, the overflow
being on the first one by the house.

Peter

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
On 31/03/10 19:50, shazzbat wrote:

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends involved)
from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are fitted with
taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water from the lower barrel
B as it is a little more accessible. How best to connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A) to
the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?


It depends whether you can put in a tap/isolator of some kind between the
two, otherwise -

1 or 2 will fill both tanks, but B will not start to fill until A is
full.

3 or 4 will drain A into B and leave A empty.

Assuming the tanks can't be made level then the best way would be a
combination of either 1 or 2 and either 3 or 4, whichever is easiest, but
again a tap between the two will be needed. Then when it rains, A will
fill first, then the overflow will fill B. Then in a dry spell, you will
empty B, then open the tap to let water flow from A to B. If you only use
3 or 4, you will need to be there to close the tap when B is full in
order to fill A, and that may be difficult in times of little rainfall.

1 is better than 2 because you won't need to seal against leakage at B. 3
is better than 4 for the same reason.

Steve



Two things: Firstly, both tanks are already fitted with taps at the
bottom. Secondly, the difference in levels between the tops of the two
tanks is only about 1 foot, so I could easily raise the level of the lower
tank by standing on some breeze blocks so that they were about the same.


Ah, well, that makes it a no-brainer. Raise B to the same level as A, or as
near as poss, and use option 4. Connect the bottom of B to the bottom of A,
then both tanks will fill and both will be available by using the tap on B.
If you can connect the tap on A to the bottom of B that's an extra
refinement which will allow you to empty just B and keep A full. Of course
the design of the tap may not allow this, in which case just connect the two
without a tap.

Steve

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:37:00 +0100, Ed wrote:

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ?

Yep but it's a "thinking" solution. You have to remember to reconnect
the hose and open the taps or go out in the rain when you remember
you haven't done it... The average pastic water butt tap and tank
connector are not the most robust and normally don't take a hose
anyway...

I prefer non-thinking KISS stuff, the simple siphon is a good one.
Priming is the hard bit but sink all the hose into one butt so it
fills with water, block and end with your thumb, take that to the
other butt and submerge it before unblocking.


--
Cheers
Dave.

On 01/04/10 12:04, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 10:37:00 +0100, Ed wrote:

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ?

Yep but it's a "thinking" solution. You have to remember to reconnect
the hose and open the taps or go out in the rain when you remember
you haven't done it... The average pastic water butt tap and tank
connector are not the most robust and normally don't take a hose
anyway...

I prefer non-thinking KISS stuff, the simple siphon is a good one.
Priming is the hard bit but sink all the hose into one butt so it
fills with water, block and end with your thumb, take that to the
other butt and submerge it before unblocking.



I don't know what KISS stuff is but I have just tried the siphon method
as you described and it works brilliantly. WOW!! Really easy to set up
and no cutting of tanks for connections , no new taps required, no pumps
required. Nothing, just a length of tubing weighed down at the bottom
of each tank. And I guess the water levels in each take will remain
balanced no mater which tank I draw water from eh?

Kisses and hugs (in the purest of senses, of course) to you mate for
your very helpful reply.

Ed

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 12:20:06 +0100, Ed ex@directory wrote:

I don't know what KISS stuff is

Keep it Simple, Stupid ;-)

--
(¯`·. ®óñ© © ²°¹° .·´¯)

Ed wrote:
On 31/03/10 19:50, shazzbat wrote:

"Ed" ex@directory wrote in message
o.uk...
The first water barrel (A) on my allotment is at the top of a slight
slope and is fed by rain water gathered from the roof of my shed. I
want to put in a second barrel (B) in a direct line (no bends
involved) from the first barrel and down a slight slope. Both are
fitted with taps, but I would always prefer to drain the water from
the lower barrel B as it is a little more accessible. How best to
connect these?

I have options to run a connection pipe from the upper barrel (A)
to the lower barrel (B) as follows:

1. Connect from top of barrel A to top of barrel B
2. Connect from top of barrel A to bottom of barrel B
3. Connect from bottom of barrel A to top of barrel B
4. Connect from bottom of barrel A to bottom of barrel B


Which would be the best option?


It depends whether you can put in a tap/isolator of some kind between
the two, otherwise -

1 or 2 will fill both tanks, but B will not start to fill until A is
full.

3 or 4 will drain A into B and leave A empty.

Assuming the tanks can't be made level then the best way would be a
combination of either 1 or 2 and either 3 or 4, whichever is easiest,
but again a tap between the two will be needed. Then when it rains, A
will fill first, then the overflow will fill B. Then in a dry spell,
you will empty B, then open the tap to let water flow from A to B. If
you only use 3 or 4, you will need to be there to close the tap when B
is full in order to fill A, and that may be difficult in times of
little rainfall.

1 is better than 2 because you won't need to seal against leakage at
B. 3 is better than 4 for the same reason.

Two things: Firstly, both tanks are already fitted with taps at the
bottom. Secondly, the difference in levels between the tops of the two
tanks is only about 1 foot, so I could easily raise the level of the
lower tank by standing on some breeze blocks so that they were about the
same.

Raise B on breeze blocks to match the levels and then use a hose filled
with water in the main tank and dipped right to the bottom of the each
tank. So long as you don't drain every last drop out of the tanks the
water will find its own level through the siphon.

So all I need to do then would be to connect a length of hose between
the two taps and leave then in the open position during rainy times so
that both barrels fill ? Then, when I want to draw off some water, I
would close both taps, pull of the hose from the lower tank , place a
water can under it, and turn the lower top on to fill.

That should be OK , I think?

More complicated than is needed. I just use a hose as a siphon when the
main tank is full to move water to the lower more convenient tanks.

Regards,
Martin Brown