Hello, Maddie here (otherwise known by some of the older residents of
the other garden neighborhood (rec.gardens newsgroup, not
uk.rec.gardening) as the olde madgardener) now that I'm
frantically gardening somewhere in Western Tennessee in a warmer zone,
moister climate, low-lands and farmland abounding.........I have a
very serious question: I have now encountered my first and not last,
black Widow spider. I know they're out there. More than I would
have comfortably realised. And especially since last
late summer when I was turning over the raised brick garden to plunk
in the few remaining container gardens and perennials, soil and all
into the raised soil of this bed. The first encounter was the HUGE
wench that was
blatently obvious in the eastern corner which once James, me
Englishman tilled up the soil from my turning it over first by hand
with a shovel, she revealed herself. We put her in a glass gallon
pickle jar, but she eventually died. The second one, right afterwards
was a smaller one (the first was as large as a fifty cent Kennedy
piece, serious!) she was the size of a quarter. She had moved into the
hollow spot on the bottom of a three gallon nursery pot filled with
daylilies. She got squashed, quickly. The third encounter was back
in the raised bed. She had used the roots and soil of some perennials
to make her cave, and I just plunked the whole thing in with the
thought that she'd be overcome and I had buried her alive. I don't
know if she was able to work her way out of the soil since the depth
was a foot down with daylily toes and soil above her to get through.
She's the reason I now have to remember to wear garden gloves or at
least those awesome latex gloves I found where I used to work that we
weren't allowed to use.

Since I have now had my first encounter with the first of many black
widows, my question is this, knowing that I am benevolent and usually
encourage the beneficials in my gardens.....this one is spinning her
capture webs over my window box that is sitting on the end of the
brick sedum and sunny perennials garden. When I was watering the
columbine that had sprung up in the middle of the Turkish toes sedums
that are growing in that long pot, I disturbed her and she huffed
quickly back into the crack where the bricks were meeting the shed
back. As much as I know she'll keep out bad bugs, I need to know if I
should allow her to live her life there and have her many
children....or should I spray her now and keep an eye peeled for
future inhabitants? I've also seen and had it killed, my first
serious encounter with a brown recluse. I kill those. this one wasn't
too close to me, the neighbor showed it to me, and then upon my
insistance, smashed it. I realize that the black widow bite won't
kill me but I would feel like I was having a heart attack, and given
my age now, it could mess me up. The recluse is a no-brainer.
Beneficial or not, one has to use common sense. The widow isn't
agressive, and only bites when cornered. Should I spray her dead and
make her tidy little perfect corner uninhabitable? Before anyone can
ask....I don't have worries about grandchildren getting bit. Only my
absent minded self. And I've alerted James of her home and pointed it
out. He's all for spraying her. I just wondered if I'm being overly
cautious. I could live with her, but have to remember to wear
protective gloves (something I don't usually do, I love the feel of
the soil and I can tell a weed from a seedling perennial by the touch)

thanks in advance to anyone who can just give me an opinion........

madgardener over in the flatlands, gardening in her new Western Faerie
Holler, zone 7b somewhere in West Tennessee

madgardener wrote:
Hello, Maddie here (otherwise known by some of the older residents of
the other garden neighborhood (rec.gardens newsgroup, not
uk.rec.gardening) as the olde madgardener) now that I'm
frantically gardening somewhere in Western Tennessee in a warmer zone,
moister climate, low-lands and farmland abounding.........I have a
very serious question: I have now encountered my first and not last,
black Widow spider. I know they're out there. More than I would
have comfortably realised. And especially since last
late summer when I was turning over the raised brick garden to plunk
in the few remaining container gardens and perennials, soil and all
into the raised soil of this bed. The first encounter was the HUGE
wench that was
blatently obvious in the eastern corner which once James, me
Englishman tilled up the soil from my turning it over first by hand
with a shovel, she revealed herself. We put her in a glass gallon
pickle jar, but she eventually died. The second one, right afterwards
was a smaller one (the first was as large as a fifty cent Kennedy
piece, serious!)

Small, then...

she was the size of a quarter.

Tiny.

She had moved into the
hollow spot on the bottom of a three gallon nursery pot filled with
daylilies. She got squashed, quickly. The third encounter was back
in the raised bed. She had used the roots and soil of some perennials
to make her cave, and I just plunked the whole thing in with the
thought that she'd be overcome and I had buried her alive. I don't
know if she was able to work her way out of the soil since the depth
was a foot down with daylily toes and soil above her to get through.
She's the reason I now have to remember to wear garden gloves or at
least those awesome latex gloves I found where I used to work that we
weren't allowed to use.

Since I have now had my first encounter with the first of many black
widows, my question is this, knowing that I am benevolent and usually
encourage the beneficials in my gardens.....this one is spinning her
capture webs over my window box that is sitting on the end of the
brick sedum and sunny perennials garden. When I was watering the
columbine that had sprung up in the middle of the Turkish toes sedums
that are growing in that long pot, I disturbed her and she huffed
quickly back into the crack where the bricks were meeting the shed
back. As much as I know she'll keep out bad bugs, I need to know if I
should allow her to live her life there and have her many
children....or should I spray her now and keep an eye peeled for
future inhabitants? I've also seen and had it killed, my first
serious encounter with a brown recluse. I kill those. this one wasn't
too close to me, the neighbor showed it to me, and then upon my
insistance, smashed it. I realize that the black widow bite won't
kill me but I would feel like I was having a heart attack, and given
my age now, it could mess me up. The recluse is a no-brainer.
Beneficial or not, one has to use common sense. The widow isn't
agressive, and only bites when cornered. Should I spray her dead and
make her tidy little perfect corner uninhabitable? Before anyone can
ask....I don't have worries about grandchildren getting bit. Only my
absent minded self. And I've alerted James of her home and pointed it
out. He's all for spraying her. I just wondered if I'm being overly
cautious. I could live with her, but have to remember to wear
protective gloves (something I don't usually do, I love the feel of
the soil and I can tell a weed from a seedling perennial by the touch)

thanks in advance to anyone who can just give me an opinion........

Well, I'd be for leaving them. I've no idea what a 'recluse' is (in the
animal kingdom) and haven't time ATM to do a search.

As you say, black widows are not generally aggressive or particularly
dangerous.

I wouldn't think you'll get an infestation of them because they'll
compete, and probably snack on each-other if they get hungry.

Kill one, and another will take over the territory. At least you have
the advantage of knowing where the established incumbent(s) live. New
entrants may dig-in in unexpected places when they arrive.

--
Rusty

On 15 Apr, 14:39, Rusty Hinge
wrote:
madgardener wrote:
Hello, Maddie here (otherwise known by some of the older residents of
the other garden neighborhood (rec.gardens newsgroup, not
uk.rec.gardening) as the olde madgardener) now that I'm
frantically gardening somewhere in Western Tennessee in a warmer zone,
moister climate, low-lands and farmland abounding.........I have a
very serious question: *I have now encountered my first and not last,
black Widow spider. *I know they're out there. * More than I would
have comfortably realised. *And especially since last
late summer when I was turning over the raised brick garden to plunk
in the few remaining container gardens and perennials, soil and all
into the raised soil of this bed. *The first encounter was the HUGE
wench that was
blatently obvious in the eastern corner which once James, me
Englishman tilled up the soil from my turning it over first by hand
with a shovel, she revealed herself. *We put her in a glass gallon
pickle jar, but she eventually died. *The second one, right afterwards
was a smaller one (the first was as large as a fifty cent Kennedy
piece, serious!)

Small, then...

she was the size of a quarter.

Tiny.





She had moved into the
hollow spot on the bottom of a three gallon nursery pot filled with
daylilies. *She got squashed, quickly. *The third encounter was back
in the raised bed. *She had used the roots and soil of some perennials
to make her cave, and I just plunked the whole thing in with the
thought that she'd be overcome and I had buried her alive. I don't
know if she was able to work her way out of the soil since the depth
was a foot down with daylily toes and soil above her to get through.
She's the reason I now have to remember to wear garden gloves or at
least those awesome latex gloves I found where I used to work that we
weren't allowed to use.

Since I have now had my first encounter with the first of many black
widows, my question is this, knowing that I am benevolent and usually
encourage the beneficials in my gardens.....this one is spinning her
capture webs over my window box that is sitting on the end of the
brick sedum and sunny perennials garden. When I was watering the
columbine that had sprung up in the middle of the Turkish toes sedums
that are growing in that long pot, I disturbed her and she huffed
quickly back into the crack where the bricks were meeting the shed
back. *As much as I know she'll keep out bad bugs, I need to know if I
should allow her to live her life there and have her many
children....or should I spray her now and keep an eye peeled for
future inhabitants? *I've also seen and had it killed, my first
serious encounter with a brown recluse. I kill those. this one wasn't
too close to me, the neighbor showed it to me, and then upon my
insistance, smashed it. *I realize that the black widow bite won't
kill me but I would feel like I was having a heart attack, and given
my age now, it could mess me up. *The recluse is a no-brainer.
Beneficial or not, one has to use common sense. *The widow isn't
agressive, and only bites when cornered. Should I spray her dead and
make her tidy little perfect corner uninhabitable? *Before anyone can
ask....I don't have worries about grandchildren getting bit. Only my
absent minded self. And I've alerted James of her home and pointed it
out. He's all for spraying her. *I just wondered if I'm being overly
cautious. *I could live with her, but have to remember to wear
protective gloves (something I don't usually do, I love the feel of
the soil and I can tell a weed from a seedling perennial by the touch)

thanks in advance to anyone who can just give me an opinion........

Well, I'd be for leaving them. I've no idea what a 'recluse' is (in the
animal kingdom) and haven't time ATM to do a search.

As you say, black widows are not generally aggressive or particularly
dangerous.

I wouldn't think you'll get an infestation of them because they'll
compete, and probably snack on each-other if they get hungry.

Kill one, and another will take over the territory. At least you have
the advantage of knowing where the established incumbent(s) live. New
entrants may dig-in in unexpected places when they arrive.

--
Rusty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

ahhh, good point. and well considered Rusty. Brown recluse are nasty
spiders who's bite rots the flesh. The bite doesn't heal well, leaving
a gaping hole, and considering where they bite you (I had a friend who
lived behind me. He was an older man almost in his late 80's when I
became his friend. He had a real glass green house (this was in
Nashville, Tennessee, in an older neighborhood, so a real glass
greenhouse wasn't something expected) he had left his favourite garden
gloves in the greenhouse on the table where he'd be able to find them.
He didn't shake or pound them sufficiently before he slipped them on
and said that something like a thorn or pricker nicked him. He took
the gloves off and saw he had a red spot on the end of his middle
finger, and went inside and cleaned it. He then said that a "bulls-
eye" appeared on the bitten end of the finger, and he went to the
doctor about it. This was when he was in his mid-60's at the time. I
met him when I was but 22, so we're talking about something that
happened when antibiotics weren't always the measure. He said the
wound quickly started rotting and the skin sloughing off, until he had
to get plastic surgery once the deterioration was stopped. They
identified it as a Brown reclusive spider bite which sometimes killed
people due to the massive infections. He took off his glove and
showed me his hand.......mostly skeleton with skin stretched over it,
very gnarly looking and it taught me rather young to shake out
clothes, boots, gloves etc before just reaching into them. I still do
it today. when you have time, google it and be warned, pictures are
very graphic...........

thanks for the opinions.

maddie gardening in the lowlands of western Tennessee zone 7b, Sunset
growing zone 33

"madgardener" wrote in message
...

thanks in advance to anyone who can just give me an opinion........

madgardener over in the flatlands, gardening in her new Western Faerie
Holler, zone 7b somewhere in West Tennessee

No point in killing them; as Rusty pointed out, another will be back to take
its place.

You are now living in a place with wildlife that needs to be respected
(spiders, scorpions, snakes). We in the UK are lucky to have nothing that
can do us serious damage unless we have an allergy (adder bites are unlikely
to kill unless it is a small child and medical assistance is many hours
away). But in the US there are many "critters" which can do a lot of
damage. You will have to wear decent gloves, and, if I were you, I'd note
carefully what first aid is required when someone is bitten. And I would ask
where the nearest poisons treatment centre is for bites, and what antivenin
they have available.

I remember when visiting Western Australia my ex-pat friend showing me a
dead Redback spider (black widow family, but somewhat more poisonous) which
his son had uncovered in the woodpile a few hours earlier. He said that you
just got used to finding such things, and that the Funnel-web spiders in the
eastern states were a lot worse! Even so, deaths from spider and snake
bites (which are far deadlier than rattlesnakes) in Australia are pretty
rare.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:

I remember when visiting Western Australia my ex-pat friend showing me a
dead Redback spider (black widow family, but somewhat more poisonous) which
his son had uncovered in the woodpile a few hours earlier. He said that you
just got used to finding such things, and that the Funnel-web spiders in the
eastern states were a lot worse! Even so, deaths from spider and snake
bites (which are far deadlier than rattlesnakes) in Australia are pretty
rare.

In the USA, they are negligible. While they have more venomous animals
than Europe does, they follow the latter pretty closely in terms of
safety from such things. Yes, there is a risk, but I am pretty sure
that it's comparable to having an aircraft crash down onto you (where
the USA is NOT among the safest locations).

It's worth taking care, but no more than that. Wearing gloves all the
time is probably overdoing it, unless you are likely to be sensitive
or where you know there is a burrow.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
Even so, deaths from spider and snake
bites (which are far deadlier than rattlesnakes) in Australia are pretty
rare.

In the USA, they are negligible. While they have more venomous animals
than Europe does, they follow the latter pretty closely in terms of
safety from such things. Yes, there is a risk, but I am pretty sure
that it's comparable to having an aircraft crash down onto you (where
the USA is NOT among the safest locations).

It's worth taking care, but no more than that. Wearing gloves all the
time is probably overdoing it, unless you are likely to be sensitive
or where you know there is a burrow.


Yes, spiders are not really a problem. Scorpions are more likely to cause
trouble - more so than snakes. But snakes are more likely to kill, as rare
as that is.

But the damage caused by rattlesnake bites is not something to be taken
lightly. See http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/ (WARNING! There are very
graphic images here of open surgery).

Quite good advice for the OP for snakes in Tennessee can be found he
http://nashville.about.com/cs/animalspets/a/snakes.htm

As to not wearing gloves all the time, well I would err on the side of
caution. But then I would also be very careful to check the gloves before I
put them on! ;-))

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman wrote:
wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
Even so, deaths from spider and snake
bites (which are far deadlier than rattlesnakes) in Australia are pretty
rare.

In the USA, they are negligible. While they have more venomous animals
than Europe does, they follow the latter pretty closely in terms of
safety from such things. Yes, there is a risk, but I am pretty sure
that it's comparable to having an aircraft crash down onto you (where
the USA is NOT among the safest locations).

It's worth taking care, but no more than that. Wearing gloves all the
time is probably overdoing it, unless you are likely to be sensitive
or where you know there is a burrow.


Yes, spiders are not really a problem. Scorpions are more likely to
cause trouble - more so than snakes. But snakes are more likely to
kill, as rare as that is.

Well, rattlers are ones to avoid, but they on't gp out of their waay to
attack larger animals, humane beans included.

Scorpions are not (AFAIK) usually deadly either, but like invading and
lurking in shoes and gloves.

Last century I think adder deaths amount to about seven in this country.
It may interest people to know that there is a colony of a small species
of scorpion which has taken-up residene on a London Underground station
somewhere near Epping. They are not dangerous, and are protected...

As to not wearing gloves all the time, well I would err on the side of
caution. But then I would also be very careful to check the gloves
before I put them on! ;-))

I think I'd try to remember to stuff screwed-up paper, polythene or
something in all my shoes as soon as they are taken off, and closing the
cuffs of gloves with elastic or string.

And round at a friend's house, I used to inspect my wellies before
putting them on just in case one of his ferrets...

--
Rusty

In article ,
Rusty Hinge wrote:
Jeff Layman wrote:

Yes, spiders are not really a problem. Scorpions are more likely to
cause trouble - more so than snakes. But snakes are more likely to
kill, as rare as that is.

Well, rattlers are ones to avoid, but they on't gp out of their waay to
attack larger animals, humane beans included.

You've been reading too many westerns! They aren't particularly
poisonous - they merely have a reputation for it. As far as I recall,
coral snakes are the most venomous USA ones.

Scorpions are not (AFAIK) usually deadly either, but like invading and
lurking in shoes and gloves.

Yup.

I think I'd try to remember to stuff screwed-up paper, polythene or
something in all my shoes as soon as they are taken off, and closing the
cuffs of gloves with elastic or string.

I would NOT advise wasting effort putting things in shoes - merely
shake them out before putting them on - that's what I was trained
to do as soon as I could dress myself.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Rusty Hinge" wrote in message
...
madgardener wrote:
Hello, Maddie here (otherwise known by some of the older residents of
the other garden neighborhood (rec.gardens newsgroup, not
uk.rec.gardening) as the olde madgardener) now that I'm
frantically gardening somewhere in Western Tennessee in a warmer zone,
moister climate, low-lands and farmland abounding.........I have a
very serious question: I have now encountered my first and not last,
black Widow spider. I know they're out there. More than I would
have comfortably realised. And especially since last
late summer when I was turning over the raised brick garden to plunk
in the few remaining container gardens and perennials, soil and all
into the raised soil of this bed. The first encounter was the HUGE
wench that was
blatently obvious in the eastern corner which once James, me
Englishman tilled up the soil from my turning it over first by hand
with a shovel, she revealed herself. We put her in a glass gallon
pickle jar, but she eventually died. The second one, right afterwards
was a smaller one (the first was as large as a fifty cent Kennedy
piece, serious!)

Small, then...

she was the size of a quarter.

Tiny.

She had moved into the
hollow spot on the bottom of a three gallon nursery pot filled with
daylilies. She got squashed, quickly. The third encounter was back
in the raised bed. She had used the roots and soil of some perennials
to make her cave, and I just plunked the whole thing in with the
thought that she'd be overcome and I had buried her alive. I don't
know if she was able to work her way out of the soil since the depth
was a foot down with daylily toes and soil above her to get through.
She's the reason I now have to remember to wear garden gloves or at
least those awesome latex gloves I found where I used to work that we
weren't allowed to use.

Since I have now had my first encounter with the first of many black
widows, my question is this, knowing that I am benevolent and usually
encourage the beneficials in my gardens.....this one is spinning her
capture webs over my window box that is sitting on the end of the
brick sedum and sunny perennials garden. When I was watering the
columbine that had sprung up in the middle of the Turkish toes sedums
that are growing in that long pot, I disturbed her and she huffed
quickly back into the crack where the bricks were meeting the shed
back. As much as I know she'll keep out bad bugs, I need to know if I
should allow her to live her life there and have her many
children....or should I spray her now and keep an eye peeled for
future inhabitants? I've also seen and had it killed, my first
serious encounter with a brown recluse. I kill those. this one wasn't
too close to me, the neighbor showed it to me, and then upon my
insistance, smashed it. I realize that the black widow bite won't
kill me but I would feel like I was having a heart attack, and given
my age now, it could mess me up. The recluse is a no-brainer.
Beneficial or not, one has to use common sense. The widow isn't
agressive, and only bites when cornered. Should I spray her dead and
make her tidy little perfect corner uninhabitable? Before anyone can
ask....I don't have worries about grandchildren getting bit. Only my
absent minded self. And I've alerted James of her home and pointed it
out. He's all for spraying her. I just wondered if I'm being overly
cautious. I could live with her, but have to remember to wear
protective gloves (something I don't usually do, I love the feel of
the soil and I can tell a weed from a seedling perennial by the touch)

thanks in advance to anyone who can just give me an opinion........

Well, I'd be for leaving them. I've no idea what a 'recluse' is (in the
animal kingdom) and haven't time ATM to do a search.

Of my American friends got bitten while she was asleep in bed by a brown
recluse spider. She did feel some discomfort the next day but didn't realise
what had happened.
She ended up in hospital for weeks having chunks of her buttocks removed as
the poison was causing the tissue to die. This was two years ago and much
testing had to take place to find what caused it - and it was a brown
recluse spider.
So that is certainly a no brainer about squashing a recluse.
I don't know much about black widows so no opinion to offer on those.
This is probably not the best group to ask for advice on poisonous spiders
as we are UK based.
Tina

On 18 Apr, 14:32, "Christina Websell"
wrote:
"Rusty Hinge" wrote in message

...





madgardener wrote:
Hello, Maddie here (otherwise known by some of the older residents of
the other garden neighborhood (rec.gardens newsgroup, not
uk.rec.gardening) as the olde madgardener) now that I'm
frantically gardening somewhere in Western Tennessee in a warmer zone,
moister climate, low-lands and farmland abounding.........I have a
very serious question: *I have now encountered my first and not last,
black Widow spider. *I know they're out there. * More than I would
have comfortably realised. *And especially since last
late summer when I was turning over the raised brick garden to plunk
in the few remaining container gardens and perennials, soil and all
into the raised soil of this bed. *The first encounter was the HUGE
wench that was
blatently obvious in the eastern corner which once James, me
Englishman tilled up the soil from my turning it over first by hand
with a shovel, she revealed herself. *We put her in a glass gallon
pickle jar, but she eventually died. *The second one, right afterwards
was a smaller one (the first was as large as a fifty cent Kennedy
piece, serious!)

Small, then...

she was the size of a quarter.

Tiny.

She had moved into the
hollow spot on the bottom of a three gallon nursery pot filled with
daylilies. *She got squashed, quickly. *The third encounter was back
in the raised bed. *She had used the roots and soil of some perennials
to make her cave, and I just plunked the whole thing in with the
thought that she'd be overcome and I had buried her alive. I don't
know if she was able to work her way out of the soil since the depth
was a foot down with daylily toes and soil above her to get through.
She's the reason I now have to remember to wear garden gloves or at
least those awesome latex gloves I found where I used to work that we
weren't allowed to use.

Since I have now had my first encounter with the first of many black
widows, my question is this, knowing that I am benevolent and usually
encourage the beneficials in my gardens.....this one is spinning her
capture webs over my window box that is sitting on the end of the
brick sedum and sunny perennials garden. When I was watering the
columbine that had sprung up in the middle of the Turkish toes sedums
that are growing in that long pot, I disturbed her and she huffed
quickly back into the crack where the bricks were meeting the shed
back. *As much as I know she'll keep out bad bugs, I need to know if I
should allow her to live her life there and have her many
children....or should I spray her now and keep an eye peeled for
future inhabitants? *I've also seen and had it killed, my first
serious encounter with a brown recluse. I kill those. this one wasn't
too close to me, the neighbor showed it to me, and then upon my
insistance, smashed it. *I realize that the black widow bite won't
kill me but I would feel like I was having a heart attack, and given
my age now, it could mess me up. *The recluse is a no-brainer.
Beneficial or not, one has to use common sense. *The widow isn't
agressive, and only bites when cornered. Should I spray her dead and
make her tidy little perfect corner uninhabitable? *Before anyone can
ask....I don't have worries about grandchildren getting bit. Only my
absent minded self. And I've alerted James of her home and pointed it
out. He's all for spraying her. *I just wondered if I'm being overly
cautious. *I could live with her, but have to remember to wear
protective gloves (something I don't usually do, I love the feel of
the soil and I can tell a weed from a seedling perennial by the touch)

thanks in advance to anyone who can just give me an opinion........

Well, I'd be for leaving them. I've no idea what a 'recluse' is (in the
animal kingdom) and haven't time ATM to do a search.

Of my American friends got bitten while she was asleep *in bed by a brown
recluse spider. She did feel some discomfort the next day but didn't realise
what had happened.
She ended up in hospital for weeks having chunks of her buttocks removed as
the poison was causing the tissue to die. *This was two years ago and much
testing had to take place to find what caused it - and it was a brown
recluse spider.
*So that is certainly a no brainer about squashing a recluse.
I don't know much about black widows so no opinion to offer on those.
This is probably not the best group to ask for advice on poisonous spiders
as we are UK based.
Tina- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I understood that, Tina, but I wanted opinions from my gardening
friends across the pond anyway. Brown recluse are bad. Seriously
bad. People rarely die from a black widow's bite. Life-threatening
reactions are generally seen only in small children and the elderly.
Symptoms usually start within 20 minutes to one hour after the bite.

•Local pain may be followed by localized or generalized severe muscle
cramps, abdominal pain, weakness, and tremor. Large muscle groups
(such as shoulder or back) are often affected, resulting in
considerable pain. In severe cases, nausea, vomiting, fainting,
dizziness, chest pain, and respiratory difficulties may follow. Those
are the worst of the symptoms. Having heard people saying consider
benevolence, I understand. Did you know that a brown recluse spider's
venom is more toxic than rattlesnake venom? thanks though....
maddie over across the pond in west Tennessee gardening zone 7b,
Sunset gardening zone 33 ever on the lookout now for newer area's of
black widow spots AND brown recluse.........

"madgardener" wrote in message anyway. Brown
recluse are bad. Seriously
bad.. Did you know that a brown recluse spider's
venom is more toxic than rattlesnake venom?

No, not until that happened to my USA friend, she nearly died from it.
She did live but had to have surgery to remove most of the flesh from her
backside.

Tina