Spider wrote:
On 29/04/2010 20:15, Ian B wrote:
Spider wrote:
On 28/04/2010 23:29, Ian B wrote:
The garden has half a dozen rose bushes in it, in various states...
snip

Following the various excellent advice, I've sprinkled the ground
with chicken poo and forked, well hoed in fact, round all the bushes
including Gordon to break up the ground. It's also raining nicely
today so that's helpful too. I haven't got any mulch but I'll look
into that, although the web's explanation of what mulch is seems
astonishingly vague. I've got shedloads of leaves from the massive
lime trees overhead, well piles of them anyway. Would they do? My
neighbour Ron insists that all the lime leaves ruin his soil, but
he's very old and getting a bit vague and thinks Mr Attlee is the
Prime Minister.


Sorry, I was a bit vague about that. As you've discovered, a mulch
can be many things but, in a rose border, it can be as simple as
soil-improving compost (your own from a compost heap, or bought) or a
bark chip mulch. Because you need to bury that bud union, I suggest
you get a good tree & shrub compost to build up the soil level, then
more of the same or a bark chip mulch spread a little wider to ensure
weed suppression and a cool root run.

I'm not sure quite how to do this, as it's the only bush, or plant, sticking
out of the ground like this, so I'd have to sort of build a hill around it,
which would be quite high (the union is 4 or 5 inches above ground level).
Either it's always been this way, or it's been pushing itself out of the
ground. Could it do that?


I'll also look at getting some fungicide. One of the other bushes
which had been a bit similar last year but has been doing better
this year has some strangely wilting leaves in a couple of places
which is worrying me a bit. I'm hoping it's a delayed reaction from
last week when I mistook one of its lateral roots for nettle roots
while I was landscaping (that is, moving the slabs around a bit) and
had hauled about five foot out of the ground before I realised where
it was pointing to. *

*Make sure you bury this root as deeply as reasonable, water it well
and mulch. It should pick up.

I did bury it again, so I hope it'll be okay.

It had a lot of black spot too last
year so I was pleased it was coming out all over this year after the
harsh pruning.

Anyway, they've all got lots of chicken poo, and now I'm just looking
forward to the henhouse stench dissipating a bit.

Thanks all!

Ian


Good luck to you and Gordon (the rose, that is .. well, hardly the
PM!!)

Yes, I don't want to go around saying, "I'm working hard for Gordon's
revival and future success" and give people the wrong idea.


Ian

On 01/05/2010 02:27, Ian B wrote:
Spider wrote:
On 29/04/2010 20:15, Ian B wrote:
Spider wrote:
On 28/04/2010 23:29, Ian B wrote:
The garden has half a dozen rose bushes in it, in various states...
snip

Following the various excellent advice, I've sprinkled the ground
with chicken poo and forked, well hoed in fact, round all the bushes
including Gordon to break up the ground. It's also raining nicely
today so that's helpful too. I haven't got any mulch but I'll look
into that, although the web's explanation of what mulch is seems
astonishingly vague. I've got shedloads of leaves from the massive
lime trees overhead, well piles of them anyway. Would they do? My
neighbour Ron insists that all the lime leaves ruin his soil, but
he's very old and getting a bit vague and thinks Mr Attlee is the
Prime Minister.


Sorry, I was a bit vague about that. As you've discovered, a mulch
can be many things but, in a rose border, it can be as simple as
soil-improving compost (your own from a compost heap, or bought) or a
bark chip mulch. Because you need to bury that bud union, I suggest
you get a good tree& shrub compost to build up the soil level, then
more of the same or a bark chip mulch spread a little wider to ensure
weed suppression and a cool root run.

I'm not sure quite how to do this, as it's the only bush, or plant, sticking
out of the ground like this, so I'd have to sort of build a hill around it,
which would be quite high (the union is 4 or 5 inches above ground level).
Either it's always been this way, or it's been pushing itself out of the
ground. Could it do that?


It's unlikely that the rose did this all on its own. It may have been
planted badly to start with, then suffered subsequent soil translocation
since. I doubt it was planted 4-5" proud to start with. You have two
options, as I see it: a)build a soil-retaining corral around it using
either stone or logroll; or b)dig carefully all around Gordon to expose
the roots in order to explore setting it further into the ground. Even
if you manage to set it more deeply into the soil, it may want to spring
up again. You will probably have to hammer in a stake and tie the rose
in firmly. Do this with the roots exposed so you don't damage the root
system.


I'll also look at getting some fungicide. One of the other bushes
which had been a bit similar last year but has been doing better
this year has some strangely wilting leaves in a couple of places
which is worrying me a bit. I'm hoping it's a delayed reaction from
last week when I mistook one of its lateral roots for nettle roots
while I was landscaping (that is, moving the slabs around a bit) and
had hauled about five foot out of the ground before I realised where
it was pointing to. *

*Make sure you bury this root as deeply as reasonable, water it well
and mulch. It should pick up.

I did bury it again, so I hope it'll be okay.

It had a lot of black spot too last
year so I was pleased it was coming out all over this year after the
harsh pruning.

Anyway, they've all got lots of chicken poo, and now I'm just looking
forward to the henhouse stench dissipating a bit.

Thanks all!

Ian


Good luck to you and Gordon (the rose, that is .. well, hardly the
PM!!)

Yes, I don't want to go around saying, "I'm working hard for Gordon's
revival and future success" and give people the wrong idea.


Ian

Heaven forbid! :~)

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Sacha wrote:
On 2010-05-01 02:18:47 +0100, "Ian B"
said:

Bob Hobden wrote:
"Ian B" wrote

since I've never had a garden of my own before and it's a rather
steep learning curve isn't it?

I appreciate that I look like an idiot, largely because I am one,
but I'm doing my best.

We all had to learn, some of us were fortunate to learn from good
old gardeners when we were children. Coming to it later in life
without a mentor is difficult but that is where we can help. Keep
the questions coming, it helps us to rethink why/how we do things.
I might add, one never ever finishes learning about gardening and
plants.

Thanks. I helped my dad a bit when I was a kid, but can't really
remember much. And I had a garden when I was with a (now ex)
girlfriend for a year, but it was basically her thing and I just dug
things when she told me to dig them, and mowed the lawn, kind of
thing. To be honest I've always found the degree of knowledge
required rather intimidating, but it's also quite exciting having so
much to learn about a subject. I think I'd get a great deal of
satisfaction out of getting these poorly roses to bloom well, if
that's possible.

You've got the bug! ;-)

I think I might have, yes. As with a lot of things, it's taking the plunge
that is the hard part, but now I'm starting to enjoy the leap into the
unkown


Ian

Spider wrote:
On 01/05/2010 02:27, Ian B wrote:
Spider wrote:
On 29/04/2010 20:15, Ian B wrote:
Spider wrote:
On 28/04/2010 23:29, Ian B wrote:
The garden has half a dozen rose bushes in it, in various
states... snip

Following the various excellent advice, I've sprinkled the ground
with chicken poo and forked, well hoed in fact, round all the
bushes including Gordon to break up the ground. It's also raining
nicely today so that's helpful too. I haven't got any mulch but
I'll look into that, although the web's explanation of what mulch
is seems astonishingly vague. I've got shedloads of leaves from
the massive lime trees overhead, well piles of them anyway. Would
they do? My neighbour Ron insists that all the lime leaves ruin
his soil, but he's very old and getting a bit vague and thinks Mr
Attlee is the Prime Minister.


Sorry, I was a bit vague about that. As you've discovered, a mulch
can be many things but, in a rose border, it can be as simple as
soil-improving compost (your own from a compost heap, or bought) or
a bark chip mulch. Because you need to bury that bud union, I
suggest you get a good tree& shrub compost to build up the soil
level, then more of the same or a bark chip mulch spread a little
wider to ensure weed suppression and a cool root run.

I'm not sure quite how to do this, as it's the only bush, or plant,
sticking out of the ground like this, so I'd have to sort of build a
hill around it, which would be quite high (the union is 4 or 5
inches above ground level). Either it's always been this way, or
it's been pushing itself out of the ground. Could it do that?


It's unlikely that the rose did this all on its own. It may have been
planted badly to start with, then suffered subsequent soil
translocation since. I doubt it was planted 4-5" proud to start with.
You have two options, as I see it: a)build a soil-retaining corral
around it using either stone or logroll; or b)dig carefully all
around Gordon to expose the roots in order to explore setting it
further into the ground. Even if you manage to set it more deeply
into the soil, it may want to spring up again. You will probably
have to hammer in a stake and tie the rose in firmly. Do this with
the roots exposed so you don't damage the root system.


I'll also look at getting some fungicide. One of the other bushes
which had been a bit similar last year but has been doing better
this year has some strangely wilting leaves in a couple of places
which is worrying me a bit. I'm hoping it's a delayed reaction from
last week when I mistook one of its lateral roots for nettle roots
while I was landscaping (that is, moving the slabs around a bit)
and had hauled about five foot out of the ground before I realised
where it was pointing to. *

*Make sure you bury this root as deeply as reasonable, water it well
and mulch. It should pick up.


Thanks Spider, I'm looking into that. And thanks for all your advice, and
everybody else's advice on this thread. It really is very much appreciated!


Ian

On Apr 29, 12:29*am, "Ian B"
wrote:
The garden has half a dozen rose bushes in it, in various states. This one
is about the saddest looking. It had severe problems with black spot last
year, such that I now informally know it as Typhoid Mary.

Ms Rose has now gone from being Typhoid Mary to Gordon. Oh dear,
things don't look good for him. But such be the fate of he wot would
take a bit of no-nonsense, straight talking, assertive questioning
from a well rooted northern accented lady disinclined to fold like a
gullible child when given a platitude of sweeties, and interpret such
qualities as evidence of bigotry. Perhaps the amusingly unthinkable
will happen and his crown gets "Nicked" by Clegg.


http://img594.imageshack.us/i/iansrose.jpg/

I clicked to enlarge. The left stalk has at least 7 promising buds,
the right around the same; Cut back by at least half after or during
flowering. Later, remove leaves as the fall (and in autumn perhaps
even pull them of; Prune to 2 or 3 buds; remove all those dead stumps
and the cord too.
You'll probably need to use a saw.
For now just scuff a bit of compost around; If you use bark mulch do
so knowing that you'll have to scuff it around later to try and get
rid of that lesser celandine.

On May 2, 6:40*pm, aquachimp
wrote:
On Apr 29, 12:29*am, "Ian B"
wrote:

The garden has half a dozen rose bushes in it, in various states. This one
is about the saddest looking. It had severe problems with black spot last
year, such that I now informally know it as Typhoid Mary.

Ms Rose has now gone from being Typhoid Mary to Gordon. Oh dear,
things don't look good for him. But such be the fate of he wot would
take a bit of no-nonsense, straight talking, assertive questioning
from a well rooted northern accented lady disinclined to fold like a
gullible child *when given a platitude of sweeties, and interpret such
qualities as evidence of bigotry. *Perhaps the amusingly unthinkable
will happen and his crown gets "Nicked" by Clegg.



http://img594.imageshack.us/i/iansrose.jpg/

I clicked *to enlarge. The left stalk has at least 7 promising buds,
the right around the same; Cut back by at least half *after or during
flowering.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting you reduce both stalks by half, but am
saying you reduce the flowered/ing new growths by that much; as you
might when cutting for flowers for the vase.


Those stalk will by then have produced new shoots and you could also
cut back the current stalks to the 2 or 3 lowest of the newly
produced shoots.


Later, remove leaves as the fall (and in autumn perhaps
even pull them of; Prune to 2 or 3 buds; remove all those dead stumps
and the cord too.
You'll probably need to use a saw.
For now just scuff a bit of compost around; If you use bark mulch do
so knowing that you'll have to scuff it around later to try and get
rid of that lesser celandine.

(or whatever that is) and I forgot to agree with those urging a good
feed, especially post flowering time.

As for Typhoid Mary now being Gordon, that, on further reflection
given the obvious signs of growth potential albeit perhaps as yet not
well grounded and strangled by old strings attached, whilst exhibiting
signs of the baggage of deathly, disease and pestilence harbouring,
ugly, air flow restricting lifeless stumps, I would say a more apt
name could be Typhoid Tory.

In article , Janet Baraclough
writes
There are well over a dozen *very* different and distinct rugosa
roses , many of which are so beautiful they merit a space of their own
and far outclass


I've got your wonderful rosa glauca Janet, it's been fairly thriving in
my front garden as a small standard and the other in the back. Everyone
remarks how pretty the blue tinge is and the flowers when they come.
They don't get much wrong with them either!

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

Hi, it still looks better than most of my roses. I've grown them in pots for years because ground elder has taken over my garden. But the only one that is still growing well is a huge climbing rose, the weeds don't bother it.

Personally I think you are fabulous.
I didn't even know what a basal break was or that I need chicken poo for the roses I have adopted from my mother in law so THANK YOU for asking all the questions you have.
Like you I am a total newbie when it comes to gardening anything other than just mowing the lawn.

Blooming Lovely wrote:
'Ian B[_2_ Wrote:
;885792']Christina Websell wrote:-
"Ian B" wrote in message
...-
The garden has half a dozen rose bushes in it, in various states.
This one is about the saddest looking. It had severe problems with
black spot last year, such that I now informally know it as Typhoid
Mary. 'Imageshack - iansrose.jpg - Uploaded by Imageshack user'
(http://tinyurl.com/33njrg5)

So this year I read up about pruning for about thirty seconds on the
internet, then hacked savagely at all the bushes in the hope of
creating some improvement. They're all sprooting now, but the big
problem with this one is that it only has one, or if you're generous
and squint your eyes a bit, two canes coming out of the bud union
(which also, as you can see, is rather a long way above the ground
for some reason). The rest is just a big lump of gnarly old bark.

Is there anything I can do to improve its prospects and get some
more, I believe they're called "basal breaks", or is it the Gordon
Brown of the rose garden that is just clinging on until somebody
does the kind thing and puts it out of its misery? It produced one
little red rose last year, which was impressive considering all the
leaves it lost (and it had not many to start with) in my attempts to
control the spread of the spot.-


Did you ever consider taking care of your rose bushes before now?
Like

treat them for disease or feed them?
Apparently not.-

Yes I did feed them last year, but I inherited them much in this
state from
the previous occupant who was an elderly man who hadn't been able to
tend
the garden properly, so last year I was not focussing on it myself,
just

trying to keep it ticking over with weeding and stuff. The roses were
fed
(Toprose) and watered and I tried to contend with the black spot but
not

very well and now I'm trying to learn how to do a proper job with it
all,
since I've never had a garden of my own before and it's a rather
steep learning curve isn't it?

I appreciate that I look like an idiot, largely because I am one, but
I'm
doing my best.


Ian

Personally I think you are fabulous.
I didn't even know what a basal break was or that I need chicken poo
for the roses I have adopted from my mother in law so THANK YOU for
asking all the questions you have.
Like you I am a total newbie when it comes to gardening anything other
than just mowing the lawn.

Well it seems to me this newsgroup has the ideal soil; one part knowledgable
to one part helpful. I'm learning enormous amounts just reading it, and
asking a few questions.


Ian

aquachimp wrote:
On May 2, 6:40 pm, aquachimp
wrote:
On Apr 29, 12:29 am, "Ian B"
wrote:

The garden has half a dozen rose bushes in it, in various states.
This one is about the saddest looking. It had severe problems with
black spot last year, such that I now informally know it as Typhoid
Mary.

Ms Rose has now gone from being Typhoid Mary to Gordon. Oh dear,
things don't look good for him. But such be the fate of he wot would
take a bit of no-nonsense, straight talking, assertive questioning
from a well rooted northern accented lady disinclined to fold like a
gullible child when given a platitude of sweeties, and interpret such
qualities as evidence of bigotry. Perhaps the amusingly unthinkable
will happen and his crown gets "Nicked" by Clegg.



http://img594.imageshack.us/i/iansrose.jpg/

I clicked to enlarge. The left stalk has at least 7 promising buds,
the right around the same; Cut back by at least half after or during
flowering.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting you reduce both stalks by half, but am
saying you reduce the flowered/ing new growths by that much; as you
might when cutting for flowers for the vase.


Those stalk will by then have produced new shoots and you could also
cut back the current stalks to the 2 or 3 lowest of the newly
produced shoots.


Thanks, I was going to ask you to clarify that

I'll probably ask again though, before I wield any cutting implements! When
you say to reduce the new growths at the appropriate time, do you mean I
should cut them all the way back at where they branch from the main stem?


Ian

Ian B wrote:
The roses were fed
(Toprose) and watered and I tried to contend with the black spot but not
very well and now I'm trying to learn how to do a proper job with it all,

I'm no expert with roses, but I do enjoy growing them (although I've been
told I've hit rose saturation point in the garden now, so I'm not allowed
any more, even if they /are/ only 99p!), and I do seem to have trouble with
black spot.

My attempt this year is to prune out a lot of the middle of the plant so
that it gets more ventilation to the leaves, and stops the fungus getting a
chance to settle in. It seems to have appreciated the pruning so far and is
growing massive. (Sorry, "it" being the red rose that I won a "best
specimen rose" cup for last year! Although to be fair, the competition was
quite small that year for some reason)

wrote:
Ian B wrote:
The roses were fed
(Toprose) and watered and I tried to contend with the black spot but
not very well and now I'm trying to learn how to do a proper job
with it all,

I'm no expert with roses, but I do enjoy growing them (although I've
been told I've hit rose saturation point in the garden now, so I'm
not allowed any more, even if they /are/ only 99p!), and I do seem to
have trouble with black spot.

My attempt this year is to prune out a lot of the middle of the plant
so that it gets more ventilation to the leaves, and stops the fungus
getting a chance to settle in. It seems to have appreciated the
pruning so far and is growing massive. (Sorry, "it" being the red
rose that I won a "best specimen rose" cup for last year! Although
to be fair, the competition was quite small that year for some reason)

I haven't seen any this year yet, but it's early days of course. I sprayed
with fungidice a couple of days ago and now I'm just crossing my fingers!

Last year "Gordon" lost every leaf, not that it had many to start with. I'm
hoping at least that the bushes will be stronger this year if and when it
does strike.



Ian

"Ian B" wrote in message
...
Well it seems to me this newsgroup has the ideal soil; one part
knowledgable to one part helpful. I'm learning enormous amounts just
reading it, and asking a few questions.


surely:
1 part knowledge
1 part helpful
1 part horseshit?

The latter being essential to roses

PK

On May 3, 11:23*pm, "Ian B"
wrote:
aquachimp wrote:
On May 2, 6:40 pm, aquachimp
wrote:
On Apr 29, 12:29 am, "Ian B"
wrote:

The garden has half a dozen rose bushes in it, in various states.
This one is about the saddest looking. It had severe problems with
black spot last year, such that I now informally know it as Typhoid
Mary.

Ms Rose has now gone from being Typhoid Mary to Gordon. Oh dear,
things don't look good for him. But such be the fate of he wot would
take a bit of no-nonsense, straight talking, assertive questioning
from a well rooted northern accented lady disinclined to fold like a
gullible child when given a platitude of sweeties, and interpret such
qualities as evidence of bigotry. Perhaps the amusingly unthinkable
will happen and his crown gets "Nicked" by Clegg.

http://img594.imageshack.us/i/iansrose.jpg/

I clicked to enlarge. The left stalk has at least 7 promising buds,
the right around the same; Cut back by at least half after or during
flowering.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting you reduce both stalks by half, but am
saying you reduce the flowered/ing new growths by that much; as you
might when *cutting for flowers for the vase.

Those stalk will by then have produced new shoots and *you could also
cut back the current stalks to the *2 or 3 lowest of the newly
produced shoots.

*Thanks, I was going to ask you to clarify that

I'll probably ask again though, before I wield any cutting implements! When
you say to reduce the new growths at the appropriate time, do you mean I
should cut them all the way back at where they branch from the main stem?

No, that wouldn't be "reducing", it would be "removing".
So, as mentioned earlier; "reduce" by half (ish)
The idea being to gradually reduce the height at which the rose tends
to sprout from.



Ian