A couple of years ago, I bought (from T&M) a dwarf, purple leafed acer
to go in a large ceramic pot.The phrase "atropurpureum dissectum"
springs to mind as part of the name. In year 1 I had some decent
purple leaf growth right up the stem. Last year, the lower stem was
bare but there was a good head of purple growth. This year, though, it
looks totally different. I've got a pic at http://tinyurl.com/5r7zt5v.

It's not a graft issue - there are stems/branches of the green leaves
emerging from the remaining main stem both below and above the purple
bit. Any "branches" not bearing green or purple leaf this year were
most certainly dead.

This is a new one for me and I'd be grateful for advice on whether I
should (a) chop out all the green growth and hope that the purple
develops a bit more next year- it's now about three feet above
"ground" rather than just above as it was orignally - or (b) forget
any chance of recovery and get a new one for the container (I'll find
somewhere to plant whatever this tree is rather than simply waste it).

Thanks

Jake

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 May 2011 22:15:04 +0100, Jake Nospam@invalid wrote:

A couple of years ago, I bought (from T&M) a dwarf, purple leafed acer
to go in a large ceramic pot.The phrase "atropurpureum dissectum"
springs to mind as part of the name. In year 1 I had some decent
purple leaf growth right up the stem. Last year, the lower stem was
bare but there was a good head of purple growth. This year, though, it
looks totally different. I've got a pic at http://tinyurl.com/5r7zt5v.

It's not a graft issue - there are stems/branches of the green leaves
emerging from the remaining main stem both below and above the purple
bit. Any "branches" not bearing green or purple leaf this year were
most certainly dead.

This is a new one for me and I'd be grateful for advice on whether I
should (a) chop out all the green growth and hope that the purple
develops a bit more next year- it's now about three feet above
"ground" rather than just above as it was orignally - or (b) forget
any chance of recovery and get a new one for the container (I'll find
somewhere to plant whatever this tree is rather than simply waste it).

Thanks

Jake

Are you _quite_sure_ it's not grafted? Assuming it's Acer palmatum
atropurpureum dissectum, the RHS handbook says that several varieties
of A. palmatum, particularly A. p. dissectum are often top-grafted.
From your picture it certainly looks like the stock has grown away and
is taking over.

--

Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales



This is ours. Is that a graft?

http://www.myalbum.com/Album-FMWHTXM...-of-Other.html

Never had any trouble with it in the three years we have had it.

It did stand in its existing Garden Centre pot within the Blue pot until
this year when we re-potted it.

Mike


--

....................................
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
....................................

"'Mike'" wrote in message
...



"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 May 2011 22:15:04 +0100, Jake Nospam@invalid wrote:

A couple of years ago, I bought (from T&M) a dwarf, purple leafed acer
to go in a large ceramic pot.The phrase "atropurpureum dissectum"
springs to mind as part of the name. In year 1 I had some decent
purple leaf growth right up the stem. Last year, the lower stem was
bare but there was a good head of purple growth. This year, though, it
looks totally different. I've got a pic at http://tinyurl.com/5r7zt5v.

It's not a graft issue - there are stems/branches of the green leaves
emerging from the remaining main stem both below and above the purple
bit. Any "branches" not bearing green or purple leaf this year were
most certainly dead.

This is a new one for me and I'd be grateful for advice on whether I
should (a) chop out all the green growth and hope that the purple
develops a bit more next year- it's now about three feet above
"ground" rather than just above as it was orignally - or (b) forget
any chance of recovery and get a new one for the container (I'll find
somewhere to plant whatever this tree is rather than simply waste it).

Thanks

Jake

Are you _quite_sure_ it's not grafted? Assuming it's Acer palmatum
atropurpureum dissectum, the RHS handbook says that several varieties
of A. palmatum, particularly A. p. dissectum are often top-grafted.
From your picture it certainly looks like the stock has grown away and
is taking over.

--

Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales



This is ours. Is that a graft?

http://www.myalbum.com/Album-FMWHTXM...-of-Other.html

Never had any trouble with it in the three years we have had it.

It did stand in its existing Garden Centre pot within the Blue pot until
this year when we re-potted it.




Click on the photos to enlarge for a closer look

Mike

--

....................................
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
....................................

Jake, how dissapointing for you! If, as you say, the green-leaved branches are coming from both above and below the nice red-leaved branch/es, then it doesn't sound like a grafted tree, although it certainly looks like one.

I've never encountered a purple-leaved Acer "reverting" to green, other than when grafted and, as Chris said, where the rootstock has taken over.

I would suggest that you do both: chop out the green stuff, it's not particularly pretty - but without it, you might find that what is left is not attractive enough to remain on display in the pot, so you could buy another one and start again.

Once you've chopped this one, you could put it in a plastic plant-pot and "plunge" it into the soil somewhere in the garden, This would keep the roots cool and moist, but you could easily heave it out again and re-pot it next year, if it regains it's form.

Mike, yours looks lovely, and no, it doesn't particularly look grafted.

I have a lot of similar-leaved acers, grown from tiny seedlings so they are definitely not grafted.

Hope this helps,

Rachel

"Jake" Nospam@invalid wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 May 2011 08:40:09 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Sat, 07 May 2011 22:15:04 +0100, Jake Nospam@invalid wrote:

A couple of years ago, I bought (from T&M) a dwarf, purple leafed acer
to go in a large ceramic pot.The phrase "atropurpureum dissectum"
springs to mind as part of the name. In year 1 I had some decent
purple leaf growth right up the stem. Last year, the lower stem was
bare but there was a good head of purple growth. This year, though, it
looks totally different. I've got a pic at http://tinyurl.com/5r7zt5v.

It's not a graft issue - there are stems/branches of the green leaves
emerging from the remaining main stem both below and above the purple
bit. Any "branches" not bearing green or purple leaf this year were
most certainly dead.

This is a new one for me and I'd be grateful for advice on whether I
should (a) chop out all the green growth and hope that the purple
develops a bit more next year- it's now about three feet above
"ground" rather than just above as it was orignally - or (b) forget
any chance of recovery and get a new one for the container (I'll find
somewhere to plant whatever this tree is rather than simply waste it).

Thanks

Jake

Are you _quite_sure_ it's not grafted? Assuming it's Acer palmatum
atropurpureum dissectum, the RHS handbook says that several varieties
of A. palmatum, particularly A. p. dissectum are often top-grafted.
From your picture it certainly looks like the stock has grown away and
is taking over.

Thanks Chris. My first thought was a grafting issue but as there is
green growth emerging both above and below, and in the middle of, the
purple this seems to me to rule that possibility out. I must admit
when I first received it I was wondering what I'd been sold as there
was a clear grafting point low down on the "trunk" - you can see this
just above the bottom leaves. Below was greeny-brown and the two
stems (as there still are) coming from that point that were then more
a purple colour. On the top of one of those was the expected
"umbrella" framework that should have produced something like Mike's
photos I think but that has never produced anything.

That tree was that shape when we bought it three years ago. A bit smaller,
it 'just' fitted in the front seat well of the car. The family always give
tokens at Christmas and Birthdays and this was my wife's 70th birthday
present from the family, via garden tokens;-)

But as I say, it was that shape. Bit expensive in my eyes, but then I am not
the gardener of over 50 years standing ;-)

Mike



--

....................................
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
....................................





Initially the normal purple growth emerged copiously from the graft
point up on both the original stems. Then last year the green growth
started to emerge below the graft but also from one of the two
original stems, above purple. It grew away like topsy but did not
overwhelm the purple. This year, the purple has largely died so the
green becomes overwhelming in comparison to what's left.

So I'm at a loss; the only thing I can think of is that there are
actually two grafts but that seems daft.

I'm currently tempted to waste it and get a new one but I wonder
whether it's worth chopping all the green out and seeing what happens
first - it'll look like one silly tree though.

Cheers

Jake

On Sun, 8 May 2011 12:16:57 +0100, "'Mike'"
wrote:


snipped

That tree was that shape when we bought it three years ago. A bit smaller,
it 'just' fitted in the front seat well of the car. The family always give
tokens at Christmas and Birthdays and this was my wife's 70th birthday
present from the family, via garden tokens;-)

But as I say, it was that shape. Bit expensive in my eyes, but then I am not
the gardener of over 50 years standing ;-)

Mike

I remember many years ago, we'd gone on a day trip and ended up in a
garden centre about 60 miles away when the BH saw a very nice crab
apple tree and decided it had to be bought. We drove the 60 miles back
slowly with it sticking out of the sunroof.

I bought the acer as one of those cheap "late season offers" that T&M
run each year and I was expecting something like yours (mine's in a
blue pot as well as it happens!). Your first three pics didn't show a
graft by the way - the graft is usually very visible as a sort of
bubble on the top of the rootstock - you should find yours up under
the canopy at the centre of what'll be something like an umbrella
framework of branches - that's where it should be.

I've checked mine again this morning and there is a (bad) graft just
under the "dead umbrella" at the top of one of the original twin stems
but all the growth has before come right up them, never at that top
where it ought to be. If I chop off all the "mutant" growth, I'll be
left with some sorry looking purple sticking out of the side about
half way up one of those stems.

It's my birthday in a couple of weeks so I've dropped some big hints
that I'd like a new one.

Cheers

Jake

"Jake" Nospam@invalid wrote in message
...
On Sun, 8 May 2011 12:16:57 +0100, "'Mike'"
wrote:


snipped

That tree was that shape when we bought it three years ago. A bit smaller,
it 'just' fitted in the front seat well of the car. The family always give
tokens at Christmas and Birthdays and this was my wife's 70th birthday
present from the family, via garden tokens;-)

But as I say, it was that shape. Bit expensive in my eyes, but then I am
not
the gardener of over 50 years standing ;-)

Mike

I remember many years ago, we'd gone on a day trip and ended up in a
garden centre about 60 miles away when the BH saw a very nice crab
apple tree and decided it had to be bought. We drove the 60 miles back
slowly with it sticking out of the sunroof.

I bought the acer as one of those cheap "late season offers" that T&M
run each year and I was expecting something like yours (mine's in a
blue pot as well as it happens!). Your first three pics didn't show a
graft by the way - the graft is usually very visible as a sort of
bubble on the top of the rootstock - you should find yours up under
the canopy at the centre of what'll be something like an umbrella
framework of branches - that's where it should be.

:-))

http://www.myalbum.com/Album=FMWHTXMP

4th picture added. Click on picture to enlarge. Thanks. I don't think there
is any doubt there :-))

Happy and 'fruitful' birthday in a couple of weeks time. we have another one
on the horizon, they seem to be coming round rather fast ;-)

Mike


--

....................................
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
....................................





I've checked mine again this morning and there is a (bad) graft just
under the "dead umbrella" at the top of one of the original twin stems
but all the growth has before come right up them, never at that top
where it ought to be. If I chop off all the "mutant" growth, I'll be
left with some sorry looking purple sticking out of the side about
half way up one of those stems.

It's my birthday in a couple of weeks so I've dropped some big hints
that I'd like a new one.

Cheers

Jake

On 05/08/2011 12:14 PM, Jake wrote:
So I'm at a loss; the only thing I can think of is that there are
actually two grafts but that seems daft.


It certainly is possible to do multiple grafts on the same understock,
some specialists do so but it's not current practice in the trade. Too
expensive to do in volume.

It's unlikely that any mutation like a witch's broom would give such
vigorous growth as you see. And besides it would probably be red, I've
never heard of a red tree throwing a green sport. (Not to say it's
never happened, of course).

I can't see where the grafts are in the picture, but most likely the
grafted part was dying and so the understock went.

I'm currently tempted to waste it and get a new one but I wonder
whether it's worth chopping all the green out and seeing what happens
first - it'll look like one silly tree though.

If you chop out the green it will likely die. Still those are some
unusual looking leaves, not sure I've seen such rounded lobes before.
At first glance I wouldn't even identify that as A. palmatum! Might be
worth saving.

-E

On May 8, 1:35*pm, Emery Davis wrote:
On 05/08/2011 12:14 PM, Jake wrote:

So I'm at a loss; the only thing I can think of is that there are
actually two grafts but that seems daft.

It certainly is possible to do multiple grafts on the same understock,
some specialists do so but it's not current practice in the trade. *Too
expensive to do in volume.

It's unlikely that any mutation like a witch's broom would give such
vigorous growth as you see. And besides it would probably be red, I've
never heard of a red tree throwing a green sport. *(Not to say it's
never happened, of course).

I can't see where the grafts are in the picture, but most likely the
grafted part was dying and so the understock went.

I'm currently tempted to waste it and get a new one but I wonder
whether it's worth chopping all the green out and seeing what happens
first - it'll look like one silly tree though.

If you chop out the green it will likely die. *Still those are some
unusual looking leaves, not sure I've seen such rounded lobes before.
At first glance I wouldn't even identify that as A. palmatum! *Might be
worth saving.

-E

A lot of top grafts are just done to one side, if there was a bud
clost to it on the other side this may well have grown on to give you
the bush/tree you now have developing.
You could do a lot of pruning to get it into shape and try re grafting
from the bit of the red acer you have left, what have you to loose?

On Sun, 8 May 2011 06:43:49 -0700 (PDT), Dave Hill
wrote:

On May 8, 1:35*pm, Emery Davis wrote:
On 05/08/2011 12:14 PM, Jake wrote:

So I'm at a loss; the only thing I can think of is that there are
actually two grafts but that seems daft.

It certainly is possible to do multiple grafts on the same understock,
some specialists do so but it's not current practice in the trade. *Too
expensive to do in volume.

It's unlikely that any mutation like a witch's broom would give such
vigorous growth as you see. And besides it would probably be red, I've
never heard of a red tree throwing a green sport. *(Not to say it's
never happened, of course).

I can't see where the grafts are in the picture, but most likely the
grafted part was dying and so the understock went.

I'm currently tempted to waste it and get a new one but I wonder
whether it's worth chopping all the green out and seeing what happens
first - it'll look like one silly tree though.

If you chop out the green it will likely die. *Still those are some
unusual looking leaves, not sure I've seen such rounded lobes before.
At first glance I wouldn't even identify that as A. palmatum! *Might be
worth saving.

-E

A lot of top grafts are just done to one side, if there was a bud
clost to it on the other side this may well have grown on to give you
the bush/tree you now have developing.
You could do a lot of pruning to get it into shape and try re grafting
from the bit of the red acer you have left, what have you to loose?

I did a hard chopping exercise this afternoon. I found a rather crude
"V" graft under the "dead umbrella" on the top of one of the stems
which pulled away from the stem surprisingly easily so no wonder that
umbrella was dead. I'm left with a rather sorry bit of purple growing
out of the side of one "stem" (too thin to call a branch). I've been
trying to identify the green leaves but there's actually little
consistency in them - some look like maple leaves whilst others have
more lobes - there was one with seven. There's also a definite graft
low down and I'm not sure whether there was a third in the middle.

I'm now hoping for a replacement as a birthday present. I'm told the
local garden centre has some fine specimens at the moment so may have
a look tomorrow.

Cheers and thanks for the advice folks.

Jake

On Sun, 08 May 2011 14:35:41 +0200, Emery Davis
wrote:

On 05/08/2011 12:14 PM, Jake wrote:
So I'm at a loss; the only thing I can think of is that there are
actually two grafts but that seems daft.


It certainly is possible to do multiple grafts on the same understock,
some specialists do so but it's not current practice in the trade. Too
expensive to do in volume.

It's unlikely that any mutation like a witch's broom would give such
vigorous growth as you see. And besides it would probably be red, I've
never heard of a red tree throwing a green sport. (Not to say it's
never happened, of course).

I can't see where the grafts are in the picture, but most likely the
grafted part was dying and so the understock went.

I'm currently tempted to waste it and get a new one but I wonder
whether it's worth chopping all the green out and seeing what happens
first - it'll look like one silly tree though.

If you chop out the green it will likely die. Still those are some
unusual looking leaves, not sure I've seen such rounded lobes before.
At first glance I wouldn't even identify that as A. palmatum! Might be
worth saving.

-E
Thanks to emery's answer in another thread, and having decided the old
thing wasn't worth saving (I'd found out that the original "imported
from the Netherlands" was actually "imported from China via the
Netherlands") because I couldn't identify the rootstock and had
nowhere to plunge it and see (as Dave suggested), I've bought a Garnet
variety which fits nicely. The container allows me to provide the
right "soil" conditions and it's in full sun and sheltered from wind.
Managed to find a nice one for under £20.

http://www.rivendell.org.uk/gallery/...?album=6&pos=2

Thanks again for all the advice.

Jake