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01-05-2003, 10:44 PM

Hi all,
More than 10 years ago, I bought a plant of Tropaeolum ciliatum in a
well-reputed nursery in the South of the UK. It was then a very new
plant - at least, I had never heard of it. The owner said it was a
climber like Tropaeolum speciosum (Scottish flame flower), with
identical habit and leaves, but with yellow flowers instead of red
ones, and not as difficult in cultivation. What self-respecting
plantsman could resist that? I certainly couldn't.
The plant did not prove very floriferous (took a few years to flower),
and the flowers were not that spectacular - but it was certainly easy
to cultivate. In fact, it gradually took over the corner of my front
yard where I planted it - and some other places, apparently carried
there with the soil when I transplanted other things. And it has now
proven itself to be the worst possible kind of weed.
It forms thin running roots with small tubers (or whatever they are
called). Those intermingle with the roots of rhododendrons and other
shrubs, totally covering the shrubs; digging up is not an option. And
when digging a hole for planting something else, I found those tubers
more than 40 cm. deep. Last year, workmen came to do some work on the
pavement in front of my garden. They found those tubers under the
pavement, almost at the other side, clearly on the way to colonize the
new frontier over there.
So, last year, I tried to clear a spot by using round-up (glyfonet),
carefully trying to protect the other plants. It did seem to help a
bit for a few months. But now the plant has come back with a
vengeance, almost as if I used a slow-acting fertilizer.
When comparing weeds - I have experience with things like Japanese
knotweed and Goutweed, but those are clearly not in the same league.
And now, I think, my wordt fear has come true. For more than fifteen
years I have been growing the splendid but difficult Tropaeolum
speciosum itself. It has kept to itself, even spread out the slightest
bit. Now, I see, an identical shoot coming up close to it.
Is that Tropaeolum speciosum itself - or T. ciliatum? Without flowers,
I can't see the difference. And T. speciosum certainly can't compete.
And yet, I see T. ciliatum and its seed still being offered as "an
interesting and easy climber". At least over here.
Do others have the same experience with it as I have? Has someone
found a way to keep it in bounds or eradicate it? Or, at least, to
distinguish it from T. speciosum?
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
Roger.

01-05-2003, 10:56 PM

Hello Roger

I can't help with your identification problem but maybe you can help me - My
Tropaeolum speciosum is only about 2.5inch high I can't get it to grow! Since
you've been growing it for some time, have you got any tips you can share with
me? I'd be very grateful!!

Lorraine

02-05-2003, 10:32 PM

Roger Van Loon wrote:

Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
Roger Van Loon wrote:

Hi Jim, yes it IS that bad, I did not exaggerate one bit. IMHO, in my
location (somewhat dry acid sandy soil) it is the worst possible weed
you can imagine. It certainly should be banned. No other weed can
compare.

Perhaps I was lucky in failing to grow it from seed!
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I think you certainly were.
What I can't figure out - doesn't anyone in the UK have those same
problems with it?
I'm sure that, once you have it in your garden, you will never get rid
of it.
Regards,
Roger.

I'd never heard of it till it came up in this years Chilterns
Catalogue..

I'm guessing it may not do as well in UK London clay if you have sandy
soil.. Very different conditions.. That said if it is bad as Vinca I
will be very careful with it..

Lokking at some piccies on google it does look different from T
tuberosum which has red twining petioles.. ciliatum appears to have
green ones?

It is described as having an RHS award of garden Merit and being
vigourous.. Maybe the RHS might have some advice for you!-)

Interestingly descriptions vary between 2 - 5 metres (Cotwolds Garden
FLowers )and 10 - 15 metres.. (Rare plants)

Chilterns describes it as half hardy..
All the above is from searching on google UK You might try the one for
europe (tho I found this includes a lot of US Stuff) or belgium more
specifically... http://www.google.be/ and add terms like 'cultivation'
or 'control' to your search.. That and contacting others who grow it..
There are quite a few nurseries selling this plant in the UK.. Maybe
you can make some money out of it!-)

//
Jim

04-05-2003, 09:32 PM

Roger Van Loon wrote:

Jim W wrote:

Roger Van Loon wrote:

Nick Maclaren wrote:

In article ,
Roger Van Loon wrote:

Hi Jim, yes it IS that bad, I did not exaggerate one bit. IMHO, in my
location (somewhat dry acid sandy soil) it is the worst possible weed
you can imagine. It certainly should be banned. No other weed can
compare.
Perhaps I was lucky in failing to grow it from seed!
Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I think you certainly were.
What I can't figure out - doesn't anyone in the UK have those same
problems with it?
I'm sure that, once you have it in your garden, you will never get rid
of it.
Regards,
Roger.

I'd never heard of it till it came up in this years Chilterns
Catalogue..

I'm guessing it may not do as well in UK London clay if you have sandy
soil.. Very different conditions.. That said if it is bad as Vinca I
will be very careful with it..
Lokking at some piccies on google it does look different from T
tuberosum which has red twining petioles.. ciliatum appears to have
green ones?
It is described as having an RHS award of garden Merit and being
vigourous.. Maybe the RHS might have some advice for you!-)

Interestingly descriptions vary between 2 - 5 metres (Cotwolds Garden
FLowers )and 10 - 15 metres.. (Rare plants)
Chilterns describes it as half hardy..
All the above is from searching on google UK You might try the one for
europe (tho I found this includes a lot of US Stuff) or belgium more
specifically... http://www.google.be/ and add terms like 'cultivation'
or 'control' to your search.. That and contacting others who grow it..
There are quite a few nurseries selling this plant in the UK.. Maybe
you can make some money out of it!-)

Jim

Hi Jim
Yes, I know about the AGM (the RHS should certainly have another look
at it), and I tried the different versions of GOOGLE. Perhaps you're
right and London clay might keep it in check - but I'm sure it will
colonize very happily most other places.
As bad as Vinca? Oh boy, you should come over and have a look. Too bad
I just cleared most of it away from my Rhododendrons, I should have
taken some pictures.
Thanks for pointing out the twining petioles, I will look at it.
Regards,
Roger.

Just been the the Ally Pally show. 3 quid a plant for the little
beastie!-)
//
Jim

30-06-2004, 01:07 PM

In article , Janet Tweedy
writes

The only way I block all these messages is to actually block or kill
the thread rather than the actual addresses. Once a thread becomes
offensive or OT there's not much point in downloading the follow-ups.
I use Demon and Turnpike but there should be a similar blocking
capability in Outlook or Agent.

janet

I posted this message about 7 days ago, heaven only knows why the
newsgroup has just shown it!
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

30-06-2004, 10:21 PM