Hello everyone,

I am trying to ID a tree found in a friend's garden, and I need some help, please. *puppy eyes*

It appears to be a self-sown tree - it's in a very odd location, by the oil tank, ie not where you would plant something ornamental - and is currently only about 12' high.

The leaves are cordate (hope I'm getting these terms right: heart-shaped) and the leaf margins are strongly toothed. The leaves are matt, light green in colour, and it's definitely not Lime (Tilia), although the style of the veins is similair: the stalk end of the leaf is even, not uneven.

The leaves are held on stalks, and are arranged more or less alternately along the branches, but in bunches of two or three, not singly.

I'm certain it's not any sort of cherry!

I have taken a couple of photos, but I can't upload them (and I have read the stern warnings about not embedding them) yet: I am hoping that someone out there might recognise the tree from the description. If not, when I get back on Monday I will upload the photos and add a link. Sorry to be a nuisance, I know it's easier to ID from photos: it's the leaves in bunches that I thought might be the pointer.

And as it's apparently self-sown, it's probably really common!

You guys have been a great help in the past, I hope that you might be able to throw some suggestions my way. I've tried googling the search terms and checking "images" for page after page, without luck.

I'm going off-line now, so thank you for reading, and I hope that you can leave me some suggestions.

Thank you in advance.

Rachel

Am 16.06.2012 19:07, schrieb Rachel 101:
Hello everyone,

I am trying to ID a tree found in a friend's garden, and I need some
help, please. *puppy eyes*

It appears to be a self-sown tree - it's in a very odd location, by the
oil tank, ie not where you would plant something ornamental - and is
currently only about 12' high.

The leaves are cordate (hope I'm getting these terms right:
heart-shaped) and the leaf margins are strongly toothed. The leaves are
matt, light green in colour, and it's definitely not Lime (Tilia),
although the style of the veins is similair: the stalk end of the leaf
is even, not uneven.

The leaves are held on stalks, and are arranged more or less alternately
along the branches, but in bunches of two or three, not singly.

I'm certain it's not any sort of cherry!

I have taken a couple of photos, but I can't upload them (and I have
read the stern warnings about not embedding them) yet: I am hoping that
someone out there might recognise the tree from the description. If not,
when I get back on Monday I will upload the photos and add a link. Sorry
to be a nuisance, I know it's easier to ID from photos: it's the leaves
in bunches that I thought might be the pointer.

And as it's apparently self-sown, it's probably really common!

You guys have been a great help in the past, I hope that you might be
able to throw some suggestions my way. I've tried googling the search
terms and checking "images" for page after page, without luck.

I'm going off-line now, so thank you for reading, and I hope that you
can leave me some suggestions.

Thank you in advance.

Rachel




Could it be a birch tree?
http://images.search.conduit.com/Ima...a rt=35&pos=7

Hi Willi,

Thanks for the suggestion, but no: birch leaves are more-or-less triangular or diamond-shaped, whereas these are very much heart shaped.

I now have pictures: not brilliant, but I hope that they help.

1) A branch from underneath, showing how the leaves are in bunches or two or three, not singly:

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...06Robtree2.jpg


2) cluse up of the leaves, showing pale green matte colour, vein pattern, and general shape:

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...06Robtree1.jpg

3) another general view of the branch:

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/...06Robtree3.jpg

I looked around the garden but couldn't see anything similar in the area (in the hope that a mature tree might give me more clues), so any suggestions would be welcomed. I am pretty sure that it's not an exotic, as the garden is not an "exotic" one, and the position of this tree suggests that it was not planted deliberately, but has arrived as a chance seedling.

Thank you,

Rachel

In article ,
Rachel 101 wrote:

I looked around the garden but couldn't see anything similar in the
area (in the hope that a mature tree might give me more clues), so any
suggestions would be welcomed. I am pretty sure that it's not an exotic,
as the garden is not an "exotic" one, and the position of this tree
suggests that it was not planted deliberately, but has arrived as a
chance seedling.

Er, no. Please don't fall into the trap of assuming that there is
any great difference (in the UK!) between native and exotic species.
Almost ALL species, and all but one or perhaps two tree species,
have arrived in the past 11,000 years. What is more, we really
don't know for any of the longer-established ones which arrived
'naturally' and which were introduced.

Exotic species are at least as likely to self-seed as 'native' ones;
buddleia, ailanthus, sycamore, walnut (sic) and dozens more do it
readily.

On this particular plant, what it the older bark like?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 06/17/2012 08:46 AM, Rachel 101 wrote:

On 16.06.2012 19:07, Rachel 101 wrote:-
Hello everyone, I am trying to ID a tree:


Could it be a birch tree?
'Preview Page' (http://tinyurl.com/cgyvhdk)

Hi Willi,

Thanks for the suggestion, but no: birch leaves are more-or-less
triangular or diamond-shaped, whereas these are very much heart shaped.



An odd guess but it looks like Davidia involuctrata, the Pocket
Handkerchief tree. I had a dream about this tree last night, probably
because mine keeps growing in the wrong direction, and I am about
decided to try another one this fall.

-E

In message , Emery Davis
writes
On 06/17/2012 08:46 AM, Rachel 101 wrote:

On 16.06.2012 19:07, Rachel 101 wrote:-
Hello everyone, I am trying to ID a tree:


Could it be a birch tree?
'Preview Page' (http://tinyurl.com/cgyvhdk)

Hi Willi,

Thanks for the suggestion, but no: birch leaves are more-or-less
triangular or diamond-shaped, whereas these are very much heart shaped.



An odd guess but it looks like Davidia involuctrata, the Pocket
Handkerchief tree. I had a dream about this tree last night, probably
because mine keeps growing in the wrong direction, and I am about
decided to try another one this fall.

That was the closest match I could find, but it doesn't, as far as I
know, have the leaves growing on short spurs (side branches).

-E

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In article ,
says...

On 06/17/2012 08:46 AM, Rachel 101 wrote:

On 16.06.2012 19:07, Rachel 101 wrote:-
Hello everyone, I am trying to ID a tree:


Could it be a birch tree?
'Preview Page' (http://tinyurl.com/cgyvhdk)

Hi Willi,

Thanks for the suggestion, but no: birch leaves are more-or-less
triangular or diamond-shaped, whereas these are very much heart shaped.



An odd guess but it looks like Davidia involuctrata, the Pocket
Handkerchief tree. I had a dream about this tree last night, probably
because mine keeps growing in the wrong direction, and I am about
decided to try another one this fall.

It does rather !. Rachel, do you know how long it took to spring up to
its current size of 12 ft? Or, how long the oil tank has been there.
Those might be useful clues

Janet

On 17/06/2012 07:46, Rachel 101 wrote:
Willi;961991 Wrote:
On 16.06.2012 19:07, Rachel 101 wrote:-
Hello everyone, I am trying to ID a tree:

The leaves are cordate, margins are strongly toothed. The leaves are
matt, light green in colour, and it's definitely not Lime (Tilia),
although the style of the veins is similair: the stalk end of the leaf
is even, not uneven.

The leaves are held on stalks, and are arranged more or less
alternately
along the branches, but in bunches of two or three, not singly.

I'm certain it's not any sort of cherry!

Thank you in advance.

Rachel
-
Could it be a birch tree?
'Preview Page' (http://tinyurl.com/cgyvhdk)

Hi Willi,

Thanks for the suggestion, but no: birch leaves are more-or-less
triangular or diamond-shaped, whereas these are very much heart shaped.

I now have pictures: not brilliant, but I hope that they help.

1) A branch from underneath, showing how the leaves are in bunches or
two or three, not singly:

http://tinyurl.com/7qoy8a2


2) cluse up of the leaves, showing pale green matte colour, vein
pattern, and general shape:

http://tinyurl.com/7yx76pw

3) another general view of the branch:

http://tinyurl.com/ckbey5f

I looked around the garden but couldn't see anything similar in the
area (in the hope that a mature tree might give me more clues), so any
suggestions would be welcomed. I am pretty sure that it's not an exotic,
as the garden is not an "exotic" one, and the position of this tree
suggests that it was not planted deliberately, but has arrived as a
chance seedling.

Thank you,

Rachel

As you said a photp would help, you can always use something like
Photobucket and link yto the pic.
David @ the sunny end of Swansea Bay

In article ,
says...

On 17/06/2012 07:46, Rachel 101 wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion, but no: birch leaves are more-or-less
triangular or diamond-shaped, whereas these are very much heart shaped.

I now have pictures: not brilliant, but I hope that they help.

1) A branch from underneath, showing how the leaves are in bunches or
two or three, not singly:

http://tinyurl.com/7qoy8a2


2) cluse up of the leaves, showing pale green matte colour, vein
pattern, and general shape:

http://tinyurl.com/7yx76pw

3) another general view of the branch:

http://tinyurl.com/ckbey5f

I looked around the garden but couldn't see anything similar in the
area (in the hope that a mature tree might give me more clues), so any
suggestions would be welcomed. I am pretty sure that it's not an exotic,
as the garden is not an "exotic" one, and the position of this tree
suggests that it was not planted deliberately, but has arrived as a
chance seedling.

Thank you,

Rachel

As you said a photp would help, you can always use something like
Photobucket and link yto the pic.
David @ the sunny end of Swansea Bay

Read before posting...
The post you quoted contains three links to photobucket pictures.

Janet

On 17/06/2012 11:33, Janet wrote:
In ,
says...

On 17/06/2012 07:46, Rachel 101 wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion, but no: birch leaves are more-or-less
triangular or diamond-shaped, whereas these are very much heart shaped.

I now have pictures: not brilliant, but I hope that they help.

1) A branch from underneath, showing how the leaves are in bunches or
two or three, not singly:

http://tinyurl.com/7qoy8a2


2) cluse up of the leaves, showing pale green matte colour, vein
pattern, and general shape:

http://tinyurl.com/7yx76pw

3) another general view of the branch:

http://tinyurl.com/ckbey5f

I looked around the garden but couldn't see anything similar in the
area (in the hope that a mature tree might give me more clues), so any
suggestions would be welcomed. I am pretty sure that it's not an exotic,
as the garden is not an "exotic" one, and the position of this tree
suggests that it was not planted deliberately, but has arrived as a
chance seedling.

Thank you,

Rachel

As you said a photp would help, you can always use something like
Photobucket and link yto the pic.
David @ the sunny end of Swansea Bay

Read before posting...
The post you quoted contains three links to photobucket pictures.

Janet

OUCH!
You enjoyed that didn't you janet.
as the OP said she wasn't posting pic till Monday in her first post..............

I's say it's Mulbury.
David

In message , Rachel 101
writes

Willi;961991 Wrote:
On 16.06.2012 19:07, Rachel 101 wrote:-
Hello everyone, I am trying to ID a tree:

The leaves are cordate, margins are strongly toothed. The leaves are
matt, light green in colour, and it's definitely not Lime (Tilia),
although the style of the veins is similair: the stalk end of the leaf
is even, not uneven.

Also, to confirm that it's not a lime, the leaves are not 5(-7)-nerved
at the base.

The leaves are held on stalks, and are arranged more or less
alternately
along the branches, but in bunches of two or three, not singly.

Technically, the leaves are borne on short side branches (spurs).

I'm certain it's not any sort of cherry!

Thank you in advance.

Rachel
-
Could it be a birch tree?
'Preview Page' (http://tinyurl.com/cgyvhdk)

Hi Willi,

Thanks for the suggestion, but no: birch leaves are more-or-less
triangular or diamond-shaped, whereas these are very much heart shaped.

I now have pictures: not brilliant, but I hope that they help.

1) A branch from underneath, showing how the leaves are in bunches or
two or three, not singly:

http://tinyurl.com/7qoy8a2


2) cluse up of the leaves, showing pale green matte colour, vein
pattern, and general shape:

http://tinyurl.com/7yx76pw

3) another general view of the branch:

http://tinyurl.com/ckbey5f

I looked around the garden but couldn't see anything similar in the
area (in the hope that a mature tree might give me more clues), so any
suggestions would be welcomed. I am pretty sure that it's not an exotic,
as the garden is not an "exotic" one, and the position of this tree
suggests that it was not planted deliberately, but has arrived as a
chance seedling.

Before you posted the photographs I was think maybe hazel (Corylus
avellana). First glance at the photographs I thought Tilia tomentosa.
But it's not either of them.

Last decade I wrote some stuff on identifying limes, with notes on how
to distinguish them from superficially similar trees. You could see if
it helps, but since your tree has defeated me, I don't expect that it
will.

http://www.malvaceae.info/Genera/Tilia/Britain.html

Thank you,

Rachel


--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

I wondered about Corylopsis, but on refreshing my memory of that, it's not. Sacha's suggestion of Mulberry is good for the leaf shape, but I get the impression from the second pic that the leaves are rather delicate, say like beech, whereas mulberry leaves are much tougher, more like nettle. And I'm not sure I've ever seen mulberry self seed.

In message , kay
writes

Stewart Robert Hinsley;962028 Wrote:


Before you posted the photographs I was think maybe hazel (Corylus
avellana). First glance at the photographs I thought Tilia tomentosa.
But it's not either of them.


I wondered about Corylopsis, but on refreshing my memory of that, it's
not. Sacha's suggestion of Mulberry is good for the leaf shape, but I
get the impression from the second pic that the leaves are rather
delicate, say like beech, whereas mulberry leaves are much tougher,
more
like nettle. And I'm not sure I've ever seen mulberry self seed.

Morus nigra has leaves which are very rough to the touch. This plant
looks as if it has woolly leaves.

The fact that the leaves are on short spurs should be helpful. But all
that I can think of with leaves on short spurs is the arborescent
Rosaceae, and I can't think of any of them which has leaves of the right
shape.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Regarding my request for help ID-ing my unknown, cordate-leaved, spurred foliage tree:

Thank you so much for all the suggestions - who would have thought it would be this difficult!

Replying in order:

Nick - when I said "exotics" I should have said "ornamentals", sorry. I think it was self-set, rather than a bought-and-planted ornamental, which is why I suspected it would turn out to be something embarassingly common. It's a young tree, I only noticed it for the first time last year, so I can't comment on the older bark - it's currently plain smooth light grey. It's growing in the oil-tank's unlovely hidden corner, on a steep bank, right hard up against a brick wall - clearly not a place where you would choose to plant a tree of any sort.

Emery - Davidia involucrata: golly, it does look rather like that, doesn't it? But I'm pretty sure it isn't, as no-one would plant one of those beautiful trees round the back of the oil tank... and as Stewart pointed out, Davidia doesn't seem to have leaves on spurs, whereas this tree does.

Stewart: definitely not Tilia, so no, your document didn't help, but it was very interesting so thank you for the link to it. ("always something to learn...")

Sacha - definitely not Mulberry, black or white, I'm familiar with both of those. There is a Mulberry (nigra) in the same garden but I have to say, I've never found a single seedling from it, and trust me, I have looked! Also, the Mulberry leaves are generally just slightly shiny, and these ones are quite matte - mind you, it's a young tree, so they could differ from the adult foliage, I suppose?

Phil: thank you for the suggestion, but no, not Populus - the petioles are round, not flattened.

David - I'll take responsibility for part of your "ouch!", as I should have waited until I could upload the photos before starting this discussion: sorry.

Kay - I'm glad to hear you say that you've never seen Mulberry set seed, either: I have two trees that I visit regularly, and I always look for seedlings, just in case... I suspect they have to go through a bird first, and are therefore likely to end up some distance away. I've repeatedly tried propogating via truncheons, as all the books suggest, with total failure. Although I brought home a bunch of smallish pruned branches earlier this year, left them sitting in a pot of water and forgot about them for, ooh, 6 weeks or so. Found them a fortnight ago, they were sprouting leaves! So I potted up 8 of them, and so far 2 have definitely died but the others are looking so-so. Not one of the traditional rooting methods, but if it works.....

So, to return to the mystery tree: bizarrely, Davidia involucrata is looking the best so far. I'll be going back for another look hopefully later this week, so I shall try to look for more clues. If there's anything that I should be looking at in particular, do please let me know.

Thank you all very much indeed for the suggestions so far.

Rachel

"Rachel 101" wrote in message
...

Willi;961991 Wrote:
On 16.06.2012 19:07, Rachel 101 wrote:-
Hello everyone, I am trying to ID a tree:

The leaves are cordate, margins are strongly toothed. The leaves are
matt, light green in colour, and it's definitely not Lime (Tilia),
although the style of the veins is similair: the stalk end of the leaf
is even, not uneven.

The leaves are held on stalks, and are arranged more or less
alternately
along the branches, but in bunches of two or three, not singly.

I'm certain it's not any sort of cherry!

Thank you in advance.

Rachel
-
Could it be a birch tree?
'Preview Page' (http://tinyurl.com/cgyvhdk)

Hi Willi,

Thanks for the suggestion, but no: birch leaves are more-or-less
triangular or diamond-shaped, whereas these are very much heart shaped.

I now have pictures: not brilliant, but I hope that they help.

1) A branch from underneath, showing how the leaves are in bunches or
two or three, not singly:

http://tinyurl.com/7qoy8a2


2) cluse up of the leaves, showing pale green matte colour, vein
pattern, and general shape:

http://tinyurl.com/7yx76pw

3) another general view of the branch:

http://tinyurl.com/ckbey5f

I looked around the garden but couldn't see anything similar in the
area (in the hope that a mature tree might give me more clues), so any
suggestions would be welcomed. I am pretty sure that it's not an exotic,
as the garden is not an "exotic" one, and the position of this tree
suggests that it was not planted deliberately, but has arrived as a
chance seedling.

Thank you,

Rachel

Hi Rachel,

From your description and the photos, I immediately thought of one of the
Aspens (Populus) species because of the rate of growth and the chordate
juvenile leaves. It may not be the common species (tremuloides) because of
the extremely dentate leaf margins.

Phil