In message , kay
writes

Stewart Robert Hinsley;962028 Wrote:


Before you posted the photographs I was think maybe hazel (Corylus
avellana). First glance at the photographs I thought Tilia tomentosa.
But it's not either of them.


I wondered about Corylopsis, but on refreshing my memory of that, it's
not. Sacha's suggestion of Mulberry is good for the leaf shape, but I
get the impression from the second pic that the leaves are rather
delicate, say like beech, whereas mulberry leaves are much tougher,
more
like nettle. And I'm not sure I've ever seen mulberry self seed.

Morus nigra has leaves which are very rough to the touch. This plant
looks as if it has woolly leaves.

The fact that the leaves are on short spurs should be helpful. But all
that I can think of with leaves on short spurs is the arborescent
Rosaceae, and I can't think of any of them which has leaves of the right
shape.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Regarding my request for help ID-ing my unknown, cordate-leaved, spurred foliage tree:

Thank you so much for all the suggestions - who would have thought it would be this difficult!

Replying in order:

Nick - when I said "exotics" I should have said "ornamentals", sorry. I think it was self-set, rather than a bought-and-planted ornamental, which is why I suspected it would turn out to be something embarassingly common. It's a young tree, I only noticed it for the first time last year, so I can't comment on the older bark - it's currently plain smooth light grey. It's growing in the oil-tank's unlovely hidden corner, on a steep bank, right hard up against a brick wall - clearly not a place where you would choose to plant a tree of any sort.

Emery - Davidia involucrata: golly, it does look rather like that, doesn't it? But I'm pretty sure it isn't, as no-one would plant one of those beautiful trees round the back of the oil tank... and as Stewart pointed out, Davidia doesn't seem to have leaves on spurs, whereas this tree does.

Stewart: definitely not Tilia, so no, your document didn't help, but it was very interesting so thank you for the link to it. ("always something to learn...")

Sacha - definitely not Mulberry, black or white, I'm familiar with both of those. There is a Mulberry (nigra) in the same garden but I have to say, I've never found a single seedling from it, and trust me, I have looked! Also, the Mulberry leaves are generally just slightly shiny, and these ones are quite matte - mind you, it's a young tree, so they could differ from the adult foliage, I suppose?

Phil: thank you for the suggestion, but no, not Populus - the petioles are round, not flattened.

David - I'll take responsibility for part of your "ouch!", as I should have waited until I could upload the photos before starting this discussion: sorry.

Kay - I'm glad to hear you say that you've never seen Mulberry set seed, either: I have two trees that I visit regularly, and I always look for seedlings, just in case... I suspect they have to go through a bird first, and are therefore likely to end up some distance away. I've repeatedly tried propogating via truncheons, as all the books suggest, with total failure. Although I brought home a bunch of smallish pruned branches earlier this year, left them sitting in a pot of water and forgot about them for, ooh, 6 weeks or so. Found them a fortnight ago, they were sprouting leaves! So I potted up 8 of them, and so far 2 have definitely died but the others are looking so-so. Not one of the traditional rooting methods, but if it works.....

So, to return to the mystery tree: bizarrely, Davidia involucrata is looking the best so far. I'll be going back for another look hopefully later this week, so I shall try to look for more clues. If there's anything that I should be looking at in particular, do please let me know.

Thank you all very much indeed for the suggestions so far.

Rachel

In article ,
Rachel 101 wrote:

Nick - when I said "exotics" I should have said "ornamentals", sorry. I
think it was self-set, rather than a bought-and-planted ornamental,
which is why I suspected it would turn out to be something embarassingly
common. It's a young tree, I only noticed it for the first time last
year, so I can't comment on the older bark - it's currently plain smooth
light grey. It's growing in the oil-tank's unlovely hidden corner, on a
steep bank, right hard up against a brick wall - clearly not a place
where you would choose to plant a tree of any sort.

But my point still stands! Rhododendron and buddleia are both
ornamentals and self-seed, and so do many others. While it
probably is something very common, that's not a given.

I will take look in Bean for some of the suggestions, but I
don't have much of a clue, and that leaf shape is very common.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Rachel 101 wrote:

Regarding my request for help ID-ing my unknown, cordate-leaved, spurred
foliage tree:

So, to return to the mystery tree: bizarrely, Davidia involucrata is
looking the best so far. I'll be going back for another look hopefully
later this week, so I shall try to look for more clues. If there's
anything that I should be looking at in particular, do please let me
know.

Not so bizarrely - Bean said that it sets seed readily, and they
are easy to germinate.

It also says that the leaves have a long fine point at the end,
veins at about 45 degrees, are 3/4 as wide as long, about 3-6"
long with 1.5-3" leaf stalks (in adults).

There are two forms, one with furry leaves and one without, so
that doesn't help.

And it says that the young twigs have a glaucus (bluish) bloom,
but my experience is that such blooms can get washed off in very
heavy rain.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 06/19/2012 09:40 AM, wrote:
In article ,
Rachel 101 wrote:

Regarding my request for help ID-ing my unknown, cordate-leaved, spurred
foliage tree:

So, to return to the mystery tree: bizarrely, Davidia involucrata is
looking the best so far. I'll be going back for another look hopefully
later this week, so I shall try to look for more clues. If there's
anything that I should be looking at in particular, do please let me
know.

Not so bizarrely - Bean said that it sets seed readily, and they
are easy to germinate.


I was going to make that point. I know some people who have germinated
the seeds without any particular difficulty. It could just be a self
seeded tree.

Still and all, my guess feels a bit off to me... the leaf grouping looks
odd, unless there's natural variation.

In article ,
Emery Davis wrote:

So, to return to the mystery tree: bizarrely, Davidia involucrata is
looking the best so far. I'll be going back for another look hopefully
later this week, so I shall try to look for more clues. If there's
anything that I should be looking at in particular, do please let me
know.

Not so bizarrely - Bean said that it sets seed readily, and they
are easy to germinate.

I was going to make that point. I know some people who have germinated
the seeds without any particular difficulty. It could just be a self
seeded tree.

Still and all, my guess feels a bit off to me... the leaf grouping looks
odd, unless there's natural variation.

Yes, that was what puzzled me most, because Bean didn't mention it.
However, one of the pictures in that could have been multiple stalks,
so I did some searching online. Look at:

http://www.stockphotopro.com/photo_o...Tree_leaves_in

Regards,
Nick.

The main difference on young mulberry trees is that the leaves are often lobed. It's as the tree matures that they get the heart shaped leaves.

btw - we have plenty of mulberry seeds that have been through birds (the blackbird virtually lives in it for the entire fruiting season) and I've still never found any seedlings!

On 06/19/2012 10:49 AM, wrote:
In article ,
Emery Davis wrote:

So, to return to the mystery tree: bizarrely, Davidia involucrata is
looking the best so far. I'll be going back for another look hopefully
later this week, so I shall try to look for more clues. If there's
anything that I should be looking at in particular, do please let me
know.

Not so bizarrely - Bean said that it sets seed readily, and they
are easy to germinate.

I was going to make that point. I know some people who have germinated
the seeds without any particular difficulty. It could just be a self
seeded tree.

Still and all, my guess feels a bit off to me... the leaf grouping looks
odd, unless there's natural variation.

Yes, that was what puzzled me most, because Bean didn't mention it.
However, one of the pictures in that could have been multiple stalks,
so I did some searching online. Look at:

http://www.stockphotopro.com/photo_o...Tree_leaves_in


Interesting, I see what you mean. Sometimes for one reason or another
the inter-nodal length gets very short, and it looks like a spray of
leaves. Perhaps that's what we're seeing here.

Davidia seems to require particularly open soil to put on good nodal growth.

Well, I am still stumped by this tree, but I have taken careful note of the suggestions, and I am going back there later this week (weather permitting) with a list of things to look at, closely, and if I can isolate any point of note, I'll come back and present my findings.

Nick, I had no idea Davidia was easy to germinate: I've tried and failed several times - maybe the seeds knew that they had been "half inched" from an arboretum *guilty blush* and failed to germinate to teach me a lesson. This mystery tree is certainly not in "particularly open soil" it's on a steep bank, well compressed, hemmed in by brick walls and the oil tank.

Sacha - yes, if it had mulberries growing on it, I would probably call that a definitive identification point. And yes, I too had noticed the strangely lobed juvenile leaves of the mulberry: first time I encountered them, I thought the tree was mutating!

Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions.

Rachel