On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:15:15 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

And if you refuse? What proportion of your neighbours want it?

NONE of the neighbours want it, that's why we are so angry.

Pam in Bristol

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:15:15 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

Ivy will. I have some disguising street sign pole in front of my garden.

Thanks. I'll be propagating ivy now! It will take a while to clothe
a 5m pole!

Pam in Bristol

On 28/06/2012 23:24, Pam Moore wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:15:15 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

And if you refuse? What proportion of your neighbours want it?

NONE of the neighbours want it, that's why we are so angry.

In that case talk to your local councillor, campaign for dark skies and
the local press if you are serious about opposing it. The CfDS website
has some useful info on how to campaign against unnecessary lights.

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/index.html?2O

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 28/06/2012 23:26, Pam Moore wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:15:15 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

Ivy will. I have some disguising street sign pole in front of my garden.

Thanks. I'll be propagating ivy now! It will take a while to clothe
a 5m pole!

Pam in Bristol

About 2-3' a year. Maybe more if you choose a plain green one.
I have a soft spot for variagates which are slower growing.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:34:01 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 28/06/2012 23:24, Pam Moore wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:15:15 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

And if you refuse? What proportion of your neighbours want it?

NONE of the neighbours want it, that's why we are so angry.

In that case talk to your local councillor, campaign for dark skies and
the local press if you are serious about opposing it. The CfDS website
has some useful info on how to campaign against unnecessary lights.

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/index.html?2O

Martin, thank you very much for that info. I'll have a look at the
site and post on progress.

Pam in Bristol

On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 21:32:58 +0100, Spider wrote:

On 27/06/2012 10:04, Pam Moore wrote:
My garden is very small, 5 yds by 9 yds but it is very full of plants.
It backs onto a path which serves our back gates.
Now the housing association who own the site have decided the paths
need upgrading (fine!) but also that for Health and Safety the lane
should have lights though we've managed for 30 years without lights!
They have put up a full height street lamp post immediately behind my
fence. We are fighting it but when/if they install the lamp it will
be 9 yds from my sitting room and bedroom windows.
I want to plant something to hide it. I had a lovely tall eucalyptus
growing there until 2 years ago but as it got tall I cut it back, as
they say you can do , but it did not regrow.
The fence runs S-N.
Any suggestions on something tall and slim?
There's not much space either width-wise or at soil level.
I don't like prunus amanaganogawa which a friend suggested.
On the new AT prog last night (more Ground Force!) someone planted
tall palms but that would not look right here.
Another euc? Or is there something else?
HELP please.

Pam in Bristol



How about Crataegus monogyna Stricta? You could raise the crown your
side to avoid the thorns, but thorns would be a good deterrent higher up
to stop two-leggeds rat from using the lampost to climb over your fence.
It would be good for wildlife. It isn't evergreen, of course, but
would have a fairly dense twiggy structure in winter, which would
diffuse the light.

Thanks for that idea. I'd not really considered the two-legged rats.
We've never had any trouble. The lane is so little used, which is why
we are so annoyed.

Pam in Bristol

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 07:20:38 +0100, Pam Moore
wrote:


I'd not really considered the two-legged rats.
We've never had any trouble. The lane is so little used, which is why
we are so annoyed.

Often the combination of "secluded" location (like a lane which is
"quiet") and a street light becomes a magnet for beer swilling groups.
The lights then get turned off and the problem goes away.

If the lane is not used in the dark then a light is likely to do more
harm than good.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay. We don't yet have a
"dah dah dah dah dee dee deeee" theme tune but we're working on it.

Can't tell astilbe from aranthus
But I can from an acanthus!

On 30/06/2012 09:58, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-06-29 21:08:39 +0100, Pam Moore said:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:34:01 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 28/06/2012 23:24, Pam Moore wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:15:15 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

And if you refuse? What proportion of your neighbours want it?

NONE of the neighbours want it, that's why we are so angry.

In that case talk to your local councillor, campaign for dark skies and
the local press if you are serious about opposing it. The CfDS website
has some useful info on how to campaign against unnecessary lights.

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/index.html?2O

Martin, thank you very much for that info. I'll have a look at the
site and post on progress.

Pam in Bristol

From that pov, I do find it extraordinary that while some councils are
turning off lights, both for ecological and financial reasons, yours is
hellbent on installing them where they're not wanted! Perhaps they're
getting to the end of a fiscal year and need to spend all their money so
as to make sure they get even more next year. Whatever the reason, it
seems a really silly thing for them to be doing. I agree with Martin,
get the press going if need be, including the nationals. Everyone is
against the waste of public money these days and this seems to be a
totally unnecessary example of just that.


I just wonder.
Is it the council?
You say it's a Housing association estate, and its a path that the path
is little used, I wonder if it isn't in fact still Unadopted so still
Housing Association land and it's in fact they who want to install the
light.

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:14:10 +0100, David Hill
wrote:

On 30/06/2012 09:58, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-06-29 21:08:39 +0100, Pam Moore said:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:34:01 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 28/06/2012 23:24, Pam Moore wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:15:15 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

And if you refuse? What proportion of your neighbours want it?

NONE of the neighbours want it, that's why we are so angry.

In that case talk to your local councillor, campaign for dark skies and
the local press if you are serious about opposing it. The CfDS website
has some useful info on how to campaign against unnecessary lights.

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/index.html?2O

Martin, thank you very much for that info. I'll have a look at the
site and post on progress.

Pam in Bristol

From that pov, I do find it extraordinary that while some councils are
turning off lights, both for ecological and financial reasons, yours is
hellbent on installing them where they're not wanted! Perhaps they're
getting to the end of a fiscal year and need to spend all their money so
as to make sure they get even more next year. Whatever the reason, it
seems a really silly thing for them to be doing. I agree with Martin,
get the press going if need be, including the nationals. Everyone is
against the waste of public money these days and this seems to be a
totally unnecessary example of just that.


I just wonder.
Is it the council?
You say it's a Housing association estate, and its a path that the path
is little used, I wonder if it isn't in fact still Unadopted so still
Housing Association land and it's in fact they who want to install the
light.

Yes, David, you are right. It is the Housing Association doing this
work, in the hope of getting their paths adopted by the Council.
However, there are many council-owned paths in our area, longer than
ours, which are not lit.

Pam in Bristol

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:27:52 +0100, Sacha wrote:

On 2012-06-30 10:14:10 +0100, David Hill said:

On 30/06/2012 09:58, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-06-29 21:08:39 +0100, Pam Moore said:

On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 14:34:01 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 28/06/2012 23:24, Pam Moore wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 18:15:15 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

And if you refuse? What proportion of your neighbours want it?

NONE of the neighbours want it, that's why we are so angry.

In that case talk to your local councillor, campaign for dark skies and
the local press if you are serious about opposing it. The CfDS website
has some useful info on how to campaign against unnecessary lights.

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/index.html?2O

Martin, thank you very much for that info. I'll have a look at the
site and post on progress.

Pam in Bristol

From that pov, I do find it extraordinary that while some councils are
turning off lights, both for ecological and financial reasons, yours is
hellbent on installing them where they're not wanted! Perhaps they're
getting to the end of a fiscal year and need to spend all their money so
as to make sure they get even more next year. Whatever the reason, it
seems a really silly thing for them to be doing. I agree with Martin,
get the press going if need be, including the nationals. Everyone is
against the waste of public money these days and this seems to be a
totally unnecessary example of just that.


I just wonder.
Is it the council?
You say it's a Housing association estate, and its a path that the path
is little used, I wonder if it isn't in fact still Unadopted so still
Housing Association land and it's in fact they who want to install the
light.

You're right. In her first post Pam says it's the Housing Association
that wants the lights installed. I went back and read it again. So
perhaps this time the local council could be the ones to block it!!

We have made enquiries at the Council, to Olanning and to
Envireonmental services. My neighbour and I who are fighting it seem
to be the only ones actively doing anything, though others say they
don't want it.

Pam in Bristol

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 09:56:42 +0100, Jake
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 07:20:38 +0100, Pam Moore
wrote:


I'd not really considered the two-legged rats.
We've never had any trouble. The lane is so little used, which is why
we are so annoyed.

Often the combination of "secluded" location (like a lane which is
"quiet") and a street light becomes a magnet for beer swilling groups.
The lights then get turned off and the problem goes away.

If the lane is not used in the dark then a light is likely to do more
harm than good.

Cheers, Jake

Thanks Jake. That is one of our points made. No problems in 30 years.
Now they put up a "magnet" or intruders.

Pam in Bristol

Ours has recently spent a lot of money replacing all its street lights by "greener" lights that allegedly leak less light to the skies.

However, they have adopted a policy of not putting them on traffic islands on the grounds that large lorries play skittles with them. And the whole set up was designed by someone sat in an office in London with a map.

So despite being told they were replacing "like with like" the fact that the junction at the end of our road is large means they have replaced ordinary street light with motorway-height ones, both on the main road and down out road (which is a cul-de-sac). And they're at the side of the road, which means 50% of this downward directed light illuminates gardens and houses, not roads and pavements.

It took a long fight to get enough shading from the nearest light to prevent it shining into half the house - we've never succeeded in getting shading for the rest of the house. And the back garden is lit by another light 100 yards down the road.

The only good thing is that the lights on the other side of the road have their impact immensely reduced by the fact that the business end is buried in some mature conker trees, which presumably were not shown on the person-in-an-office-in-London's map.

Sometimes it helps to have a rant.

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:59:49 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 27/06/2012 10:04, Pam Moore wrote:
My garden is very small, 5 yds by 9 yds but it is very full of plants.
It backs onto a path which serves our back gates.
Now the housing association who own the site have decided the paths
need upgrading (fine!) but also that for Health and Safety the lane
should have lights though we've managed for 30 years without lights!
They have put up a full height street lamp post immediately behind my
fence. We are fighting it but when/if they install the lamp it will
be 9 yds from my sitting room and bedroom windows.

One practical point since they are installing it that close in is that
you can probably insist that they fit the thing with a full cutoff
luminaire and/or a shade protector to prevent it disturbing your sleep.
They are not uncommon additions to avoid light trespass.

I want to plant something to hide it. I had a lovely tall eucalyptus
growing there until 2 years ago but as it got tall I cut it back, as
they say you can do , but it did not regrow.
The fence runs S-N.
Any suggestions on something tall and slim?

One of the pencil thin cyprusses? Although starting small it may take a
while to get that high - a big one would be expensive. eg.

http://www.seagravenurseries.co.uk/p...s-and-conifers

There's not much space either width-wise or at soil level.
I don't like prunus amanaganogawa which a friend suggested.
On the new AT prog last night (more Ground Force!) someone planted
tall palms but that would not look right here.
Another euc? Or is there something else?
HELP please.

Pam in Bristol

Of all the suggestions, I like the Italian Cyprus best.
Can anyone say how hardy they are? It looks as though the cheapest
would be £50+ with delivery extra.
I'm so cross I cut down the eucalyptus. It was in just the right
position and tall enough.

Pam in Bristol

On 01/07/2012 10:13, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-07-01 09:46:01 +0100, Sacha said:

On 2012-07-01 08:47:41 +0100, Pam Moore said:

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:59:49 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 27/06/2012 10:04, Pam Moore wrote:
My garden is very small, 5 yds by 9 yds but it is very full of plants.
It backs onto a path which serves our back gates.
Now the housing association who own the site have decided the paths
need upgrading (fine!) but also that for Health and Safety the lane
should have lights though we've managed for 30 years without lights!
They have put up a full height street lamp post immediately behind my
fence. We are fighting it but when/if they install the lamp it will
be 9 yds from my sitting room and bedroom windows.

One practical point since they are installing it that close in is that
you can probably insist that they fit the thing with a full cutoff
luminaire and/or a shade protector to prevent it disturbing your sleep.
They are not uncommon additions to avoid light trespass.

I want to plant something to hide it. I had a lovely tall eucalyptus
growing there until 2 years ago but as it got tall I cut it back, as
they say you can do , but it did not regrow.
The fence runs S-N.
Any suggestions on something tall and slim?

One of the pencil thin cyprusses? Although starting small it may take a
while to get that high - a big one would be expensive. eg.

http://www.seagravenurseries.co.uk/p...s-and-conifers


There's not much space either width-wise or at soil level.
I don't like prunus amanaganogawa which a friend suggested.
On the new AT prog last night (more Ground Force!) someone planted
tall palms but that would not look right here.
Another euc? Or is there something else?
HELP please.

Pam in Bristol

Of all the suggestions, I like the Italian Cyprus best.
Can anyone say how hardy they are? It looks as though the cheapest
would be £50+ with delivery extra.
I'm so cross I cut down the eucalyptus. It was in just the right
position and tall enough.

Pam in Bristol

They're beautiful trees but do be cautious of the fact that in our
wetter, less well drained climate, they tend to lose that pencil
slimness and become bushier. I don't know if you saw my suggestion
for Crinodendron hookerianum or a Eucryphia. But they may be too
bushy for you, perhaps. Would a clipped bay tree do the trick. You'd
have to 'manage' it and the same goes for Azara which has the bonus of
scented flowers. Otherwise, could you put in your own tall pole,
cemented into position and grow something up it?

PS You might like to look at Hoheria sexstylosas, too. We have a few
here and they're wonderful trees. Ours are evergreen and light and airy
so not too dominant in a smallish space. The flowers come in late
summer and are scented. They're under-used trees, ioo. They seed freely
but that's easily dealt with!


I think we must remember the size of Pam's garden 5yards by 9 yards so
even a small tree with a spread of 3 yards will take up a chunk, also we
don't know if it will great shade over any of the garden.
I'd go with the idea of a tall post/pole with either a vigorous rose
growing up it or something of that ilk, that could be kept to a spread
of around 3 ft. I know that some of my climbing roses are growing out
through trees of over 20 ft, and some of the new stems are already 12 ft
tall, granted that is from plants that have been in for several years.
David @ the showery end of Swansea Bay

On 01/07/2012 11:29, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-07-01 10:54:50 +0100, David Hill
said:

On 01/07/2012 10:13, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-07-01 09:46:01 +0100, Sacha said:

On 2012-07-01 08:47:41 +0100, Pam Moore
said:

On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:59:49 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 27/06/2012 10:04, Pam Moore wrote:
My garden is very small, 5 yds by 9 yds but it is very full of
plants.
It backs onto a path which serves our back gates.
Now the housing association who own the site have decided the paths
need upgrading (fine!) but also that for Health and Safety the lane
should have lights though we've managed for 30 years without lights!
They have put up a full height street lamp post immediately
behind my
fence. We are fighting it but when/if they install the lamp it will
be 9 yds from my sitting room and bedroom windows.

One practical point since they are installing it that close in is
that
you can probably insist that they fit the thing with a full cutoff
luminaire and/or a shade protector to prevent it disturbing your
sleep.
They are not uncommon additions to avoid light trespass.

I want to plant something to hide it. I had a lovely tall eucalyptus
growing there until 2 years ago but as it got tall I cut it back, as
they say you can do , but it did not regrow.
The fence runs S-N.
Any suggestions on something tall and slim?

One of the pencil thin cyprusses? Although starting small it may
take a
while to get that high - a big one would be expensive. eg.

http://www.seagravenurseries.co.uk/p...s-and-conifers



There's not much space either width-wise or at soil level.
I don't like prunus amanaganogawa which a friend suggested.
On the new AT prog last night (more Ground Force!) someone planted
tall palms but that would not look right here.
Another euc? Or is there something else?
HELP please.

Pam in Bristol

Of all the suggestions, I like the Italian Cyprus best.
Can anyone say how hardy they are? It looks as though the cheapest
would be £50+ with delivery extra.
I'm so cross I cut down the eucalyptus. It was in just the right
position and tall enough.

Pam in Bristol

They're beautiful trees but do be cautious of the fact that in our
wetter, less well drained climate, they tend to lose that pencil
slimness and become bushier. I don't know if you saw my suggestion
for Crinodendron hookerianum or a Eucryphia. But they may be too
bushy for you, perhaps. Would a clipped bay tree do the trick. You'd
have to 'manage' it and the same goes for Azara which has the bonus of
scented flowers. Otherwise, could you put in your own tall pole,
cemented into position and grow something up it?

PS You might like to look at Hoheria sexstylosas, too. We have a few
here and they're wonderful trees. Ours are evergreen and light and airy
so not too dominant in a smallish space. The flowers come in late
summer and are scented. They're under-used trees, ioo. They seed freely
but that's easily dealt with!


I think we must remember the size of Pam's garden 5yards by 9 yards so
even a small tree with a spread of 3 yards will take up a chunk, also
we don't know if it will great shade over any of the garden.
I'd go with the idea of a tall post/pole with either a vigorous rose
growing up it or something of that ilk, that could be kept to a spread
of around 3 ft. I know that some of my climbing roses are growing out
through trees of over 20 ft, and some of the new stems are already 12
ft tall, granted that is from plants that have been in for several years.
David @ the showery end of Swansea Bay

I thought of the Hoheria because they're pretty well upright and
wouldn't cast much shade but I agree with you that the pole idea might
work better for her in the end. If she can put in 3 and swag anchor
chain or thick rope between them, they'll be a feature in their own
right and not just a disguise. But the layout of her garden will
determine that! I mention anchor chain because while we've used rope,
one section, after years of taking everything the weather can throw at
it, has finally snapped in a gale, so in the autumn we'll either
replace that section or re-do the whole thing with galvanised chain.


I remember years ago being told not to use wire or chain for rambler
roses as in hot weather the wire could burn the young growth.
David