On 13/12/2012 19:08, kay wrote:

'Spider[_3_ Wrote:
;974873']On 12/12/2012 23:12, Emery Davis wrote:-
On 12/12/2012 11:57 PM, Spider wrote:-
Can you tell me if A. lamarckii, in your experience, is the obedient
tree type or the suckering shrub type?-

Spider, ours suckers pretty freely. Definitely not obedient!-



Thanks, Emery. Well, I shan't be getting that one, then! Not that I
have anything against suckering shrubs or trees generally, but I don't
want to run out of planting opportunities for other good shrubs. I had

a lovely Berberis stenophylla once, with that attractive arching growth,

but it wanted to take over the world. Took me ages to dig it all out!
I still admire it in other gardens, but have learnt the lesson.


What are you both meaning by suckering here? Do you simply mean throwing
up branches from the base, or doing you mean sending our new branches
away from the plant, like snowberry or sumach? Amelanchier doesn't do
the latter in my experience.






When I refer to the Berberis stenophylla, I mean appearing feet away
from the original shrub and galloping out of control. The Berberis also
mildly suckered from the base in a more acceptable manor before it romped.

As to *my* potential Amelanchier, I am hoping it will be more tree than
shrub, perhaps a multi-stemmed treeish growth. I can tolerate a teensy
bit of basal suckering, but I certainly don't want an over-sized bush
with a stampeding suckering tendency.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 13/12/2012 21:13, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-13 19:29:05 +0000, Spider said:

On 13/12/2012 18:16, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-13 12:24:07 +0000, "Pete"
said:



"Sacha" wrote in message ...


I think there might be some confusion here. I didn't recommend
Amelanchier but people who are happy with it did and I made the
"Sounds good" remark. I don't know if will suit the OP's needs. One
other thought occurs to me and that is a Wisteria, grown as a
standard. We have 3 on a lawn here and the 2 best flowerers look
superb. The oldest is no more than 5' tall after about 5 years and of
course, is on a 'trunk' with the branches weeping towards the ground.

Pete's reply is 'greyed out' so I reproduce the whole thing he


"Sacha" wrote in message ...


I think there might be some confusion here. I didn't recommend
Amelanchier but people who are happy with it did and I made the
"Sounds good" remark. I don't know if will suit the OP's needs. One
other thought occurs to me and that is a Wisteria, grown as a
standard. We have 3 on a lawn here and the 2 best flowerers look
superb. The oldest is no more than 5' tall after about 5 years and of
course, is on a 'trunk' with the branches weeping towards the ground.
--
Sacha

Well -- I would not call standard wisterias naturally tall and thin,
although
some pruning could assist. (see one of my 20 yr olds ).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8130344...in/photostream



Very beautiful, but in need of Very strong support. I have had to resort
to guy ropes
a la tent style !

Pete

Your Wisteria is simply beautiful. We're letting ours do something
rather different and allowing the branches to arch over towards the
ground. I saw this first at a friend's house in Jersey, about 25 years
ago. Their Wisterias had been in for a very long time and looked like
ball gowns, sweeping the grass with their blossom.

I wonder if Myrtus communis, would answer the OP's requirements. While
they seed, it's not so badly as to be uncontrollable or a nuisance, imo.




But would it be hardy enough? I thought they were borderline hardy and
the OP is in the Midlands.

It depends very much on her particular area. We've had some lasting cold
snaps here that they've sailed through. But we're not talking months.
Greece, where they grow most beautifully, can be very cold but it's very
well drained. Personally, I'd be tempted to try it, if it's the right
tree for the setting in terms of shape etc. But I wouldn't be prepared
to risk a lot of money on it if the ground is soggy and holds winter wet.



The OP is on slightly acid clay, so I'd be a bit worried about drainage.
All the same, if drainage were improved, it could work. It's a lovely
shrub and can be clipped to keep it within bounds, so it may work.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 12/13/2012 11:34 PM, Spider wrote:
As to *my* potential Amelanchier, I am hoping it will be more tree than
shrub, perhaps a multi-stemmed treeish growth. I can tolerate a teensy
bit of basal suckering, but I certainly don't want an over-sized bush
with a stampeding suckering tendency.

I think the total footprint of mine is about a square meter. Certainly
it doesn't stampede like a Berberis...

They really are lovely, I'd put more in around the hedges if I had the
time and money.

That describes my amelanchier perfectly!

Maybe more research into different species? (No I don't know which one mine is)

On 13/12/2012 22:46, Emery Davis wrote:
On 12/13/2012 11:34 PM, Spider wrote:
As to *my* potential Amelanchier, I am hoping it will be more tree than
shrub, perhaps a multi-stemmed treeish growth. I can tolerate a teensy
bit of basal suckering, but I certainly don't want an over-sized bush
with a stampeding suckering tendency.

I think the total footprint of mine is about a square meter. Certainly
it doesn't stampede like a Berberis...

They really are lovely, I'd put more in around the hedges if I had the
time and money.


Ah, that's bit more hopeful then. I'm obviously going to have to spend
Christmas reading about trees. A. lamarckii is suddenly back on the list!

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 14/12/2012 22:42, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-13 22:43:41 +0000, Spider said:

On 13/12/2012 21:13, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-13 19:29:05 +0000, Spider said:

On 13/12/2012 18:16, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-13 12:24:07 +0000, "Pete"
said:



"Sacha" wrote in message ...


I think there might be some confusion here. I didn't recommend
Amelanchier but people who are happy with it did and I made the
"Sounds good" remark. I don't know if will suit the OP's needs. One
other thought occurs to me and that is a Wisteria, grown as a
standard. We have 3 on a lawn here and the 2 best flowerers look
superb. The oldest is no more than 5' tall after about 5 years
and of
course, is on a 'trunk' with the branches weeping towards the
ground.

Pete's reply is 'greyed out' so I reproduce the whole thing he


"Sacha" wrote in message ...


I think there might be some confusion here. I didn't recommend
Amelanchier but people who are happy with it did and I made the
"Sounds good" remark. I don't know if will suit the OP's needs. One
other thought occurs to me and that is a Wisteria, grown as a
standard. We have 3 on a lawn here and the 2 best flowerers look
superb. The oldest is no more than 5' tall after about 5 years and of
course, is on a 'trunk' with the branches weeping towards the ground.
--
Sacha

Well -- I would not call standard wisterias naturally tall and thin,
although
some pruning could assist. (see one of my 20 yr olds ).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8130344...in/photostream



Very beautiful, but in need of Very strong support. I have had to
resort
to guy ropes
a la tent style !

Pete

Your Wisteria is simply beautiful. We're letting ours do something
rather different and allowing the branches to arch over towards the
ground. I saw this first at a friend's house in Jersey, about 25 years
ago. Their Wisterias had been in for a very long time and looked like
ball gowns, sweeping the grass with their blossom.

I wonder if Myrtus communis, would answer the OP's requirements. While
they seed, it's not so badly as to be uncontrollable or a nuisance,
imo.




But would it be hardy enough? I thought they were borderline hardy and
the OP is in the Midlands.

It depends very much on her particular area. We've had some lasting cold
snaps here that they've sailed through. But we're not talking months.
Greece, where they grow most beautifully, can be very cold but it's very
well drained. Personally, I'd be tempted to try it, if it's the right
tree for the setting in terms of shape etc. But I wouldn't be prepared
to risk a lot of money on it if the ground is soggy and holds winter
wet.



The OP is on slightly acid clay, so I'd be a bit worried about
drainage. All the same, if drainage were improved, it could work. It's
a lovely shrub and can be clipped to keep it within bounds, so it may
work.

Well, we're a mix of loam over clay over shillet and a garden where you
can't walk on the big lawn in winter but where, in summer, it has
fissures a man could put his whole arm into! We grow Rhodos and
Camellias but Hyams was told by Kew that they'd never 'do' here. So.......!



Yup .. anything goes! Plants don't read gardening books, and there's
the proof if we needed it. I think the OP could be fairly relaxed.
She's been given a reasonable list of plants. All she's got to do now
is say "if, skip, sky blue .." and if the sky is ever blue long enough,
she'll probably get away with it;~).

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 15/12/2012 17:47, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-15 17:29:28 +0000, Spider said:

On 14/12/2012 22:42, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-13 22:43:41 +0000, Spider said:

On 13/12/2012 21:13, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-13 19:29:05 +0000, Spider said:

On 13/12/2012 18:16, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-13 12:24:07 +0000, "Pete"
said:



"Sacha" wrote in message ...


I think there might be some confusion here. I didn't recommend
Amelanchier but people who are happy with it did and I made the
"Sounds good" remark. I don't know if will suit the OP's needs.
One
other thought occurs to me and that is a Wisteria, grown as a
standard. We have 3 on a lawn here and the 2 best flowerers look
superb. The oldest is no more than 5' tall after about 5 years
and of
course, is on a 'trunk' with the branches weeping towards the
ground.

Pete's reply is 'greyed out' so I reproduce the whole thing he


"Sacha" wrote in message ...


I think there might be some confusion here. I didn't recommend
Amelanchier but people who are happy with it did and I made the
"Sounds good" remark. I don't know if will suit the OP's needs. One
other thought occurs to me and that is a Wisteria, grown as a
standard. We have 3 on a lawn here and the 2 best flowerers look
superb. The oldest is no more than 5' tall after about 5 years
and of
course, is on a 'trunk' with the branches weeping towards the
ground.
--
Sacha

Well -- I would not call standard wisterias naturally tall and thin,
although
some pruning could assist. (see one of my 20 yr olds ).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8130344...in/photostream



Very beautiful, but in need of Very strong support. I have had to
resort
to guy ropes
a la tent style !

Pete

Your Wisteria is simply beautiful. We're letting ours do something
rather different and allowing the branches to arch over towards the
ground. I saw this first at a friend's house in Jersey, about 25
years
ago. Their Wisterias had been in for a very long time and looked
like
ball gowns, sweeping the grass with their blossom.

I wonder if Myrtus communis, would answer the OP's requirements.
While
they seed, it's not so badly as to be uncontrollable or a nuisance,
imo.




But would it be hardy enough? I thought they were borderline hardy
and
the OP is in the Midlands.

It depends very much on her particular area. We've had some lasting
cold
snaps here that they've sailed through. But we're not talking months.
Greece, where they grow most beautifully, can be very cold but it's
very
well drained. Personally, I'd be tempted to try it, if it's the right
tree for the setting in terms of shape etc. But I wouldn't be prepared
to risk a lot of money on it if the ground is soggy and holds winter
wet.



The OP is on slightly acid clay, so I'd be a bit worried about
drainage. All the same, if drainage were improved, it could work. It's
a lovely shrub and can be clipped to keep it within bounds, so it may
work.

Well, we're a mix of loam over clay over shillet and a garden where you
can't walk on the big lawn in winter but where, in summer, it has
fissures a man could put his whole arm into! We grow Rhodos and
Camellias but Hyams was told by Kew that they'd never 'do' here.
So.......!



Yup .. anything goes! Plants don't read gardening books, and there's
the proof if we needed it. I think the OP could be fairly relaxed.
She's been given a reasonable list of plants. All she's got to do now
is say "if, skip, sky blue .." and if the sky is ever blue long
enough, she'll probably get away with it;~).

I do have to get into my default setting that not everything that grows
here will grow further north - and there's a LOT of further north. I was
very tempted to suggest Mahonia lomarifolia but it's frost tender.
Apparently. Ours, however, is not but again, we don't hold onto frost
for very long by some standards. We have a couple in the garden that
have come through the last two winters without blinking...



Yes, that's a lovely plant, too, but I would rule it out simply because
it's quite spiny and the OP said the plant is to go next to an access
path. Otherwise it's got a lot going for it.

Even some conifers could, in summer, cause skin iritation if they were
brushed passed with bare arms.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 15/12/2012 23:51, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-15 22:50:43 +0000, Spider said:

On 15/12/2012 17:47, Sacha wrote:
snip

Yup .. anything goes! Plants don't read gardening books, and there's
the proof if we needed it. I think the OP could be fairly relaxed.
She's been given a reasonable list of plants. All she's got to do now
is say "if, skip, sky blue .." and if the sky is ever blue long
enough, she'll probably get away with it;~).

I do have to get into my default setting that not everything that grows
here will grow further north - and there's a LOT of further north. I was
very tempted to suggest Mahonia lomarifolia but it's frost tender.
Apparently. Ours, however, is not but again, we don't hold onto frost
for very long by some standards. We have a couple in the garden that
have come through the last two winters without blinking...



Yes, that's a lovely plant, too, but I would rule it out simply
because it's quite spiny and the OP said the plant is to go next to an
access path. Otherwise it's got a lot going for it.

Even some conifers could, in summer, cause skin iritation if they were
brushed passed with bare arms.

Curious you say that about conifers! My household helper has many red
marks on her arms from dealing with her Christmas tree!



Indeed. I think it's quite common. I used to have a very irritable
rash after pruning an old juniper. Once I was aware of it, I wore
gauntlets or long sleeves. Haven't noticed a problem with Yew yet, even
though that is very toxic.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

In article ,
Spider wrote:

Indeed. I think it's quite common. I used to have a very irritable
rash after pruning an old juniper. Once I was aware of it, I wore
gauntlets or long sleeves. Haven't noticed a problem with Yew yet, even
though that is very toxic.

Toxic and irritant aren't the same! Yew isn't as toxic as all that,
despite Shakespearean myth.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Kate" wrote in message ...

Thanks for all the suggestions so far

I'm in the Midlands, slightly acidic clay soil. It's a corner behind a
raised bed with an access path behind, that's why it can't spread too far
but also needs to be fairly tall to be seen. But not too tall or it will
be out of proportion with the bed.

Don't mind about deciduous or evergreen... flowers are always nice


Another suggestion - a much admired "ever yellow" form of Yew.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/8130344...in/photostream

More a miniature tree really but very slow growing. Mine is about two metres
high
after about twenty years of growth. Never needs pruning and is as naturally
tall
and thin as you go ! Small red berries form the fruit.

Pete

On 16/12/2012 14:27, wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Indeed. I think it's quite common. I used to have a very irritable
rash after pruning an old juniper. Once I was aware of it, I wore
gauntlets or long sleeves. Haven't noticed a problem with Yew yet, even
though that is very toxic.

Toxic and irritant aren't the same! Yew isn't as toxic as all that,
despite Shakespearean myth.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.



No, you're right, Nick, strictly speaking anyway. However, I often find
that plants which are toxic are skin irritants for me, ie: ivy and the
prunus laurel tribe, to mention only two.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay