On 12/12/2012 16:13, echinosum wrote:

'Janet Tweedy[_2_ Wrote:
;974784']In article , Sacha

writes-
Sounds good and as if it might do the job then.-
A picture
'Amelanchier alnifolia 'Obelisk' ® amelanchier - Trees for Life - Frank
P. Matthews Ltd.' (http://tinyurl.com/c88y2uw)

That says to 4m. But mine has remained less than 2m after 10 years, but
it clearly isn't very happy. I think Amelanchiers don't like dry
conditions. The flowering period is extremely short, blink and they've
gone.





*Is* flowering that brief, or could the dry conditions you describe
cause the buds/flowers to abort? I would love to grow Amelanchier in
the near future, so would like to understand a bit more about its habit.
I'd be grateful for your reflections. For instance, are there plenty
of berries despite brief flowering,(which suggests to me that the
flowers persist long enough however apparently brief) or do you feel
there is a poor crop of berries. Do you know which form of Amelanchier
you are growing?

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 12/12/2012 11:32 PM, Spider wrote:
On 12/12/2012 16:13, echinosum wrote:

'Janet Tweedy[_2_ Wrote:
;974784']In article , Sacha

writes-
Sounds good and as if it might do the job then.-
A picture
'Amelanchier alnifolia 'Obelisk' ® amelanchier - Trees for Life - Frank
P. Matthews Ltd.' (http://tinyurl.com/c88y2uw)

That says to 4m. But mine has remained less than 2m after 10 years, but
it clearly isn't very happy. I think Amelanchiers don't like dry
conditions. The flowering period is extremely short, blink and they've
gone.

*Is* flowering that brief, or could the dry conditions you describe
cause the buds/flowers to abort? I would love to grow Amelanchier in
the near future, so would like to understand a bit more about its habit.
I'd be grateful for your reflections. For instance, are there plenty
of berries despite brief flowering,(which suggests to me that the
flowers persist long enough however apparently brief) or do you feel
there is a poor crop of berries. Do you know which form of Amelanchier
you are growing?


Jumping in here, I grow A. lamarckii, flowering is indeed very brief
(but lovely). It's in a pretty wet spot where it thrives. Birds get
the berries before us, though!

I would have said it was a spreading shrub, so 'Obelisk' sounds very
interesting.

The spring leaf out is a gorgeous bronze colour, and the pure white
flowers make a really pretty contrast. Good fall colour too, mixed reds
and purples.

On 12/12/2012 22:34, Emery Davis wrote:
On 12/12/2012 11:32 PM, Spider wrote:
On 12/12/2012 16:13, echinosum wrote:

'Janet Tweedy[_2_ Wrote:
;974784']In article , Sacha

writes-
Sounds good and as if it might do the job then.-
A picture
'Amelanchier alnifolia 'Obelisk' ® amelanchier - Trees for Life - Frank
P. Matthews Ltd.' (http://tinyurl.com/c88y2uw)

That says to 4m. But mine has remained less than 2m after 10 years, but
it clearly isn't very happy. I think Amelanchiers don't like dry
conditions. The flowering period is extremely short, blink and they've
gone.

*Is* flowering that brief, or could the dry conditions you describe
cause the buds/flowers to abort? I would love to grow Amelanchier in
the near future, so would like to understand a bit more about its habit.
I'd be grateful for your reflections. For instance, are there plenty
of berries despite brief flowering,(which suggests to me that the
flowers persist long enough however apparently brief) or do you feel
there is a poor crop of berries. Do you know which form of Amelanchier
you are growing?


Jumping in here, I grow A. lamarckii, flowering is indeed very brief
(but lovely). It's in a pretty wet spot where it thrives. Birds get
the berries before us, though!

I would have said it was a spreading shrub, so 'Obelisk' sounds very
interesting.

The spring leaf out is a gorgeous bronze colour, and the pure white
flowers make a really pretty contrast. Good fall colour too, mixed reds
and purples.



Thanks, Emery. That useful to know. Reckon I'll have to put up with a
short flowering period then. I could always grow a clematis through it
for summer flowers. Can you tell me if A. lamarckii, in your
experience, is the obedient tree type or the suckering shrub type?

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

Maybe that's another effect of the dry conditions? Mine seems to be in flower for a reasonable amount of time. Not the months-on-end of Viburnum bodnantense, but comparable to other flowering shrubs. Better, than , eg lilac.

On 12/12/2012 11:57 PM, Spider wrote:
Can you tell me if A. lamarckii, in your experience, is the obedient
tree type or the suckering shrub type?

Spider, ours suckers pretty freely. Definitely not obedient!

Mine is several stemmed shrub. But now it's 20 years old, it isn't growing any new stems from the ground, and one of them is becoming dominant, so it's beginning to turn into a small tree.

It's on neutral-to-acid clay, shaded by greenhouse and by 4 giant leylandiis.

As I said before, I don't notice it as having a short flowering period, and it's absolutely smothered in flower. Bronze spring foliage is beautiful, as is the autumn colour, so all-in-all it's one of the better-value shrubs in the garden.

Berries are small and I think ripen to black, but the blackbirds are very fond of them, so they're not something I notice.

"Sacha" wrote in message ...


I think there might be some confusion here. I didn't recommend Amelanchier
but people who are happy with it did and I made the "Sounds good" remark. I
don't know if will suit the OP's needs. One other thought occurs to me and
that is a Wisteria, grown as a standard. We have 3 on a lawn here and the 2
best flowerers look superb. The oldest is no more than 5' tall after about
5 years and of course, is on a 'trunk' with the branches weeping towards
the ground.
--
Sacha

Well -- I would not call standard wisterias naturally tall and thin,
although
some pruning could assist. (see one of my 20 yr olds ).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8130344...in/photostream

Very beautiful, but in need of Very strong support. I have had to resort to
guy ropes
a la tent style !

Pete

I was referring specifically to my Amelanchier alnifolia "Obelisk". It does produce berries. They aren't very nice to eat though, very pippy, a bit like flowering currant berries. I've read that one should use a variety selected for berry quality if you want to eat good saskatoon berries (saskatoon being the common name for A. alnifolia), but such are hard to obtain in UK. Though maybe the berries would be a bit more juicy if I weren't so dry. The birds don't seem to bother very much with them. A disadvantage of alnifolia is that it flowers as the leaves come out, so the flowers are less showy than the usual variety, as well as the flowers being even shorter lasting.

I also have Juneberry A. lamarkii/canadensis (which may be synonyms). Again in a very dry spot, which doesn't work very well. It doesn't get bigger than about 1.5m for me, and suckers a bit. It won't bush out for me, I just get very long straggly bits which I have to shorten or it looks ridiculous. The berries are much nicer to eat than the ones on A alnifolia Obelisk, when I manage to get to a ripe one before the birds, who really like them. I've seen them growing in moist soil in Abingdon, and they grow bushy to 3-4m, a very effective screen while in leaf, and are well covered in really tasty berries.

On 12/12/2012 23:12, Emery Davis wrote:
On 12/12/2012 11:57 PM, Spider wrote:
Can you tell me if A. lamarckii, in your experience, is the obedient
tree type or the suckering shrub type?

Spider, ours suckers pretty freely. Definitely not obedient!



Thanks, Emery. Well, I shan't be getting that one, then! Not that I
have anything against suckering shrubs or trees generally, but I don't
want to run out of planting opportunities for other good shrubs. I had
a lovely Berberis stenophylla once, with that attractive arching growth,
but it wanted to take over the world. Took me ages to dig it all out!
I still admire it in other gardens, but have learnt the lesson.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 12/13/2012 02:20 PM, Spider wrote:
I had a lovely Berberis stenophylla once, with that attractive arching
growth, but it wanted to take over the world. Took me ages to dig it
all out! I still admire it in other gardens, but have learnt the lesson.

Ha, I've made the mistake of putting one of these on each side of a 3m
fence gate. They are intent on closing the gap, I have to hack
constantly at them to keep enough room to get the tractor through. So
much for arching shape! (Well they arch on one side, anyway).

What are you both meaning by suckering here? Do you simply mean throwing up branches from the base, or doing you mean sending our new branches away from the plant, like snowberry or sumach? Amelanchier doesn't do the latter in my experience.

On 13/12/2012 16:33, Emery Davis wrote:
On 12/13/2012 02:20 PM, Spider wrote:
I had a lovely Berberis stenophylla once, with that attractive arching
growth, but it wanted to take over the world. Took me ages to dig it
all out! I still admire it in other gardens, but have learnt the lesson.

Ha, I've made the mistake of putting one of these on each side of a 3m
fence gate. They are intent on closing the gap, I have to hack
constantly at them to keep enough room to get the tractor through. So
much for arching shape! (Well they arch on one side, anyway).



Well, lovely as they are, I'd be rid of them if I were you, but I don't
envy you the job .. one was hard enough to get out! I'm surprised yours
haven't come up elsewhere to start another thicket or two. That's what
mine did .. started suckering a few feet away. Hope yours doesn't do
the same.
--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 13/12/2012 18:16, Sacha wrote:
On 2012-12-13 12:24:07 +0000, "Pete" said:



"Sacha" wrote in message ...


I think there might be some confusion here. I didn't recommend
Amelanchier but people who are happy with it did and I made the
"Sounds good" remark. I don't know if will suit the OP's needs. One
other thought occurs to me and that is a Wisteria, grown as a
standard. We have 3 on a lawn here and the 2 best flowerers look
superb. The oldest is no more than 5' tall after about 5 years and of
course, is on a 'trunk' with the branches weeping towards the ground.

Pete's reply is 'greyed out' so I reproduce the whole thing he


"Sacha" wrote in message ...


I think there might be some confusion here. I didn't recommend
Amelanchier but people who are happy with it did and I made the
"Sounds good" remark. I don't know if will suit the OP's needs. One
other thought occurs to me and that is a Wisteria, grown as a
standard. We have 3 on a lawn here and the 2 best flowerers look
superb. The oldest is no more than 5' tall after about 5 years and of
course, is on a 'trunk' with the branches weeping towards the ground.
--
Sacha

Well -- I would not call standard wisterias naturally tall and thin,
although
some pruning could assist. (see one of my 20 yr olds ).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8130344...in/photostream



Very beautiful, but in need of Very strong support. I have had to resort
to guy ropes
a la tent style !

Pete

Your Wisteria is simply beautiful. We're letting ours do something
rather different and allowing the branches to arch over towards the
ground. I saw this first at a friend's house in Jersey, about 25 years
ago. Their Wisterias had been in for a very long time and looked like
ball gowns, sweeping the grass with their blossom.

I wonder if Myrtus communis, would answer the OP's requirements. While
they seed, it's not so badly as to be uncontrollable or a nuisance, imo.




But would it be hardy enough? I thought they were borderline hardy and
the OP is in the Midlands.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 12/13/2012 08:08 PM, kay wrote:

'Spider[_3_ Wrote:
;974873']On 12/12/2012 23:12, Emery Davis wrote:-
On 12/12/2012 11:57 PM, Spider wrote:-
Can you tell me if A. lamarckii, in your experience, is the obedient
tree type or the suckering shrub type?-

Spider, ours suckers pretty freely. Definitely not obedient!-



Thanks, Emery. Well, I shan't be getting that one, then! Not that I
have anything against suckering shrubs or trees generally, but I don't
want to run out of planting opportunities for other good shrubs. I had

a lovely Berberis stenophylla once, with that attractive arching growth,

but it wanted to take over the world. Took me ages to dig it all out!
I still admire it in other gardens, but have learnt the lesson.


What are you both meaning by suckering here? Do you simply mean throwing
up branches from the base, or doing you mean sending our new branches
away from the plant, like snowberry or sumach? Amelanchier doesn't do
the latter in my experience.

Well, I can't claim a very wide experience with Amelanchier, but this
one certainly suckered. I do mean new branches coming up a foot or a
foot and a half from the original stem. Since the original time it
hasn't sent up new stems that I've seen.

This particular plant was originally planted in a very dry spot at the
base of a wall, where it did very poorly for a couple of years, I then
moved it to this wet spot, and it has been very happy. After a year or
so it started sending up volunteers.

It's a beautiful shrub, but mine certainly has suckered.

On 12/13/2012 10:13 PM, Sacha wrote:
But would it be hardy enough? I thought they were borderline hardy
and the OP is in the Midlands.

It depends very much on her particular area. We've had some lasting cold
snaps here that they've sailed through. But we're not talking months.
Greece, where they grow most beautifully, can be very cold but it's very
well drained. Personally, I'd be tempted to try it, if it's the right
tree for the setting in terms of shape etc. But I wouldn't be prepared
to risk a lot of money on it if the ground is soggy and holds winter wet
They hate wet it seems, I killed a well established one that way (change
in the drainage).