My pond is a smallish cascade affair. About 10yrs ago I kept fish
(Golden Orfe) in it. However, the local heron scoffed the lot, so many
years passed without fish. Because of this (and perhaps foolishly) I
planted a laburnum tree a few feet away.

A couple of Springs ago, a friend rescued some fish (poss. small Koi,
definitely carp) and asked if I'd keep them in my pond. I did so and
they survived very well, right through last winter despite the pond
icing over. Indeed, when we cleaned out the pond in summer, we found
lots of baby carp, so assumed they were doing well. This winter,
however, has seen several losses. Indeed, about a week ago I removed 4
dead fish floating on the surface.

Since the fish survived one hard winter, I find it hard to believe
they've succumbed to cold this year. There is a bubbling spout to
aerate the water, so that's not the problem. So now my dread thought is
that the Laburnum tree is poisoning them (due to leaf and seed fall),
even though there were no ill effects last year.

The Laburnum tree (which came pot-grown from the same friend) has been
in place several years. The circumference is 11", so about 4" diameter.
Moving it would be a huge job for me, but one I'm having to consider
all the same. I know this friend would be very upset if I lost the
tree, so chopping it down isn't an option, but it puts increased
pressure on me should I move it. I know that, ideally, I should trench
and root prune it this year, making the rootball smaller and keener to
grow away. Alas, I'm feeling the need to move it urgently, so may not
have this option.

I would be grateful for any input regarding the fish/poisoning/other
cause of demise and the chances of moving this tree successfully. The
tree was fairly big in its pot before I received it, so it may have had
a slow start in life due to a limited rootball. I'm hoping this is the
case, but fear it may have established a strong tap root and made itself
at home. Help, please!!


--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

"Spider" wrote

My pond is a smallish cascade affair. About 10yrs ago I kept fish
(Golden Orfe) in it. However, the local heron scoffed the lot, so many
years passed without fish. Because of this (and perhaps foolishly) I
planted a laburnum tree a few feet away.

A couple of Springs ago, a friend rescued some fish (poss. small Koi,
definitely carp) and asked if I'd keep them in my pond. I did so and
they survived very well, right through last winter despite the pond
icing over. Indeed, when we cleaned out the pond in summer, we found
lots of baby carp, so assumed they were doing well. This winter,
however, has seen several losses. Indeed, about a week ago I removed 4
dead fish floating on the surface.

Since the fish survived one hard winter, I find it hard to believe
they've succumbed to cold this year. There is a bubbling spout to
aerate the water, so that's not the problem. So now my dread thought is
that the Laburnum tree is poisoning them (due to leaf and seed fall),
even though there were no ill effects last year.

The Laburnum tree (which came pot-grown from the same friend) has been
in place several years. The circumference is 11", so about 4" diameter.
Moving it would be a huge job for me, but one I'm having to consider
all the same. I know this friend would be very upset if I lost the
tree, so chopping it down isn't an option, but it puts increased
pressure on me should I move it. I know that, ideally, I should trench
and root prune it this year, making the rootball smaller and keener to
grow away. Alas, I'm feeling the need to move it urgently, so may not
have this option.

I would be grateful for any input regarding the fish/poisoning/other
cause of demise and the chances of moving this tree successfully. The
tree was fairly big in its pot before I received it, so it may have had
a slow start in life due to a limited rootball. I'm hoping this is the
case, but fear it may have established a strong tap root and made itself
at home. Help, please!!



Do you feed the fish during late autumn to early spring, i.e over winter?
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:42:48 +0000, Spider wrote:

The Laburnum tree (which came pot-grown from the same friend) has been
in place several years. The circumference is 11", so about 4" diameter.
Moving it would be a huge job for me, but one I'm having to consider
all the same. I know this friend would be very upset if I lost the
tree,
so chopping it down isn't an option, but it puts increased pressure on
me

They're quite easy to root from cuttings, maybe it would solve the
problem if you potted up a few, then removed the larger tree once it was
clear they'd struck?



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

and announced it to your friend as 'Son of'
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
OK OK OK or 'Daughter of'
..
..
..



"Emery Davis" wrote in message ...

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:42:48 +0000, Spider wrote:

The Laburnum tree (which came pot-grown from the same friend) has been
in place several years. The circumference is 11", so about 4" diameter.
Moving it would be a huge job for me, but one I'm having to consider
all the same. I know this friend would be very upset if I lost the
tree,
so chopping it down isn't an option, but it puts increased pressure on
me

They're quite easy to root from cuttings, maybe it would solve the
problem if you potted up a few, then removed the larger tree once it was
clear they'd struck?



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On 10/03/2013 15:56, Bob Hobden wrote:
"Spider" wrote

My pond is a smallish cascade affair. About 10yrs ago I kept fish
(Golden Orfe) in it. However, the local heron scoffed the lot, so many
years passed without fish. Because of this (and perhaps foolishly) I
planted a laburnum tree a few feet away.

A couple of Springs ago, a friend rescued some fish (poss. small Koi,
definitely carp) and asked if I'd keep them in my pond. I did so and
they survived very well, right through last winter despite the pond
icing over. Indeed, when we cleaned out the pond in summer, we found
lots of baby carp, so assumed they were doing well. This winter,
however, has seen several losses. Indeed, about a week ago I removed 4
dead fish floating on the surface.

Since the fish survived one hard winter, I find it hard to believe
they've succumbed to cold this year. There is a bubbling spout to
aerate the water, so that's not the problem. So now my dread thought
is that the Laburnum tree is poisoning them (due to leaf and seed
fall), even though there were no ill effects last year.

The Laburnum tree (which came pot-grown from the same friend) has been
in place several years. The circumference is 11", so about 4"
diameter. Moving it would be a huge job for me, but one I'm having to
consider all the same. I know this friend would be very upset if I
lost the tree, so chopping it down isn't an option, but it puts
increased pressure on me should I move it. I know that, ideally, I
should trench and root prune it this year, making the rootball smaller
and keener to grow away. Alas, I'm feeling the need to move it
urgently, so may not have this option.

I would be grateful for any input regarding the fish/poisoning/other
cause of demise and the chances of moving this tree successfully. The
tree was fairly big in its pot before I received it, so it may have
had a slow start in life due to a limited rootball. I'm hoping this is
the case, but fear it may have established a strong tap root and made
itself at home. Help, please!!



Do you feed the fish during late autumn to early spring, i.e over winter?


No. I stop when it gets cold.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 10/03/2013 16:56, Emery Davis wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:42:48 +0000, Spider wrote:

The Laburnum tree (which came pot-grown from the same friend) has been
in place several years. The circumference is 11", so about 4" diameter.
Moving it would be a huge job for me, but one I'm having to consider
all the same. I know this friend would be very upset if I lost the
tree,
so chopping it down isn't an option, but it puts increased pressure on
me

They're quite easy to root from cuttings, maybe it would solve the
problem if you potted up a few, then removed the larger tree once it was
clear they'd struck?





That's a thought. I think my friend will still be horrified, but as far
as I'm concerned it's an option. Thank you. I'll dicuss it with her first.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 10/03/2013 16:58, 'Mike' wrote:
and announced it to your friend as 'Son of'
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
OK OK OK or 'Daughter of'
.



I think it's the fact that it would be an orphan that would be the
problem. She's extremely soft hearted.
.
.



"Emery Davis" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:42:48 +0000, Spider wrote:

The Laburnum tree (which came pot-grown from the same friend) has been
in place several years. The circumference is 11", so about 4" diameter.
Moving it would be a huge job for me, but one I'm having to consider
all the same. I know this friend would be very upset if I lost the
tree,
so chopping it down isn't an option, but it puts increased pressure on
me

They're quite easy to root from cuttings, maybe it would solve the
problem if you potted up a few, then removed the larger tree once it was
clear they'd struck?





--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 10/03/2013 18:00, Spider wrote:
On 10/03/2013 16:56, Emery Davis wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:42:48 +0000, Spider wrote:

The Laburnum tree (which came pot-grown from the same friend) has been
in place several years. The circumference is 11", so about 4" diameter.
Moving it would be a huge job for me, but one I'm having to consider
all the same. I know this friend would be very upset if I lost the
tree,
so chopping it down isn't an option, but it puts increased pressure on
me

They're quite easy to root from cuttings, maybe it would solve the
problem if you potted up a few, then removed the larger tree once it was
clear they'd struck?





That's a thought. I think my friend will still be horrified, but as far
as I'm concerned it's an option. Thank you. I'll dicuss it with her
first.

Or move the pond.

On 10/03/2013 18:08, David Hill wrote:
On 10/03/2013 18:00, Spider wrote:
On 10/03/2013 16:56, Emery Davis wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:42:48 +0000, Spider wrote:

The Laburnum tree (which came pot-grown from the same friend) has been
in place several years. The circumference is 11", so about 4" diameter.
Moving it would be a huge job for me, but one I'm having to consider
all the same. I know this friend would be very upset if I lost the
tree,
so chopping it down isn't an option, but it puts increased pressure on
me

They're quite easy to root from cuttings, maybe it would solve the
problem if you potted up a few, then removed the larger tree once it was
clear they'd struck?





That's a thought. I think my friend will still be horrified, but as far
as I'm concerned it's an option. Thank you. I'll dicuss it with her
first.

Or move the pond.



Obviously, you haven't seen the foundations of this pond!;~). It is not
going anywhere. It will be where it is for all eternity.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:42:48 +0000, Spider wrote:

Since the fish survived one hard winter, I find it hard to believe
they've succumbed to cold this year. There is a bubbling spout to
aerate the water, so that's not the problem.

It might be. Water is funny stuff it's maximum density is at about 4C.
Water at this temperature sinks to the bottom and stays there. The
surface can cool further and freeze but is less dense so stays at the
surface. The bubbles will tend to make the water circulate and thus the
whole body of the of the pond water can get cooled below 4C. The fish may
well object to temps below 4C...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 18:51:39 +0000, Spider wrote:


Obviously, you haven't seen the foundations of this pond!;~). It is not
going anywhere. It will be where it is for all eternity.

I think it's the tree or the pond or the fish! See:

http://www.koimag.co.uk/advice/what-...or-near-koi-po

(The link ends with "po" but if it wraps you may need to edit the
middle.)

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East end of Swansea Bay
in between feeding half the UK bird population!

"Spider" wrote in message
...
My pond is a smallish cascade affair. About 10yrs ago I kept fish (Golden
Orfe) in it. However, the local heron scoffed the lot, so many years
passed without fish. Because of this (and perhaps foolishly) I planted a
laburnum tree a few feet away.

Pure guess......might be a build up of poisen from the tree. Not something
I'd normally suggest at this time of year, but a major water change may give
a temporary respite.Use temp matched dechlorinated water. Long term, I'd say
either the fish or the tree have to go
--
Pete C

On 10/03/2013 21:21, The Original Jake wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 18:51:39 +0000, wrote:


Obviously, you haven't seen the foundations of this pond!;~). It is not
going anywhere. It will be where it is for all eternity.

I think it's the tree or the pond or the fish! See:

http://www.koimag.co.uk/advice/what-...or-near-koi-po

(The link ends with "po" but if it wraps you may need to edit the
middle.)

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East end of Swansea Bay
in between feeding half the UK bird population!



Thanks, Jake, I was able to see it. It's what I dreaded and more, so it
looks like the tree will have to be moved. I have so many of those
poisonous plants in my garden, although only the Laburnum near enough to
the pond to be troublesome. Groan! I'd better start building up my
muscles.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 10/03/2013 20:10, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 15:42:48 +0000, Spider wrote:

Since the fish survived one hard winter, I find it hard to believe
they've succumbed to cold this year. There is a bubbling spout to
aerate the water, so that's not the problem.

It might be. Water is funny stuff it's maximum density is at about 4C.
Water at this temperature sinks to the bottom and stays there. The
surface can cool further and freeze but is less dense so stays at the
surface. The bubbles will tend to make the water circulate and thus the
whole body of the of the pond water can get cooled below 4C. The fish may
well object to temps below 4C...




Thanks, Dave. I think I sort of knew most of this already, although in
less tech-speak. However, the fact that they survived an even worse
winter than this - and bred - makes me wonder if this is the problem.

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay

On 10/03/2013 21:58, Pete C wrote:
wrote in message
...
My pond is a smallish cascade affair. About 10yrs ago I kept fish (Golden
Orfe) in it. However, the local heron scoffed the lot, so many years
passed without fish. Because of this (and perhaps foolishly) I planted a
laburnum tree a few feet away.

Pure guess......might be a build up of poisen from the tree. Not something
I'd normally suggest at this time of year, but a major water change may give
a temporary respite.Use temp matched dechlorinated water. Long term, I'd say
either the fish or the tree have to go



Thanks for that. Yes, I think a water change may well come into it
until I can clear enough room around the tree to move it. I am hoping
that there is sufficient rainwater in the waterbutt to give me a good
start. Can't say I'm looking forward to any of it. I thought all the
big jobs were done. Oh well ...

--
Spider
from high ground in SE London
gardening on clay