A neighbour planted a Viburnum Tinus in a narrow raised bed which is
basically a double 4' wall with a hollow area used for planting on top. At
the moment it's overrun with Muscari, and at one end is this very healthy
lookung Viburnum Tinus full of pink bud. The viburnum is about 2' tall so
it's a young shrub. He asked me how to improve the look of the bed as it
currently looks a mess with all the Muscari leaves. I suggested Aubtretia,
Iberis and a few other alpine types. I then mentioned that his Viburnum was
planted in the wrong place and needed to be moved as its potential height
and spread is 8'. He was insistent on leaving it in there asking could it
not be pruned sufficiently each year to keep ot at its current size. I
pointed out that it was possible but the roots would spread and possibly
damage his wall.

So, is my neighbour ok leaving the shrub in this bed or should it be moved?

On 12/12/2013 00:20, Frank Booth wrote:
A neighbour planted a Viburnum Tinus in a narrow raised bed which is
basically a double 4' wall with a hollow area used for planting on top. At
the moment it's overrun with Muscari, and at one end is this very healthy
lookung Viburnum Tinus full of pink bud. The viburnum is about 2' tall so
it's a young shrub. He asked me how to improve the look of the bed as it
currently looks a mess with all the Muscari leaves. I suggested Aubtretia,
Iberis and a few other alpine types. I then mentioned that his Viburnum was
planted in the wrong place and needed to be moved as its potential height
and spread is 8'. He was insistent on leaving it in there asking could it
not be pruned sufficiently each year to keep ot at its current size. I
pointed out that it was possible but the roots would spread and possibly
damage his wall.

So, is my neighbour ok leaving the shrub in this bed or should it be moved?



Hmmm I'm quite interested in an answer to this question because we have
the same shrub about four feet from our kitchen window.

The shrub has been in situ (north facing border) for about 14 years and
has responded well to severe pruning in the past.

--
Wendy Tinley
SE Sheffield
4 miles west of junction 30 M1

On 12/12/2013 00:20, Frank Booth wrote:
A neighbour planted a Viburnum Tinus in a narrow raised bed which is
basically a double 4' wall with a hollow area used for planting on top. At
the moment it's overrun with Muscari, and at one end is this very healthy
lookung Viburnum Tinus full of pink bud. The viburnum is about 2' tall so
it's a young shrub. He asked me how to improve the look of the bed as it
currently looks a mess with all the Muscari leaves. I suggested Aubtretia,
Iberis and a few other alpine types. I then mentioned that his Viburnum was
planted in the wrong place and needed to be moved as its potential height
and spread is 8'. He was insistent on leaving it in there asking could it
not be pruned sufficiently each year to keep ot at its current size. I
pointed out that it was possible but the roots would spread and possibly
damage his wall.

So, is my neighbour ok leaving the shrub in this bed or should it be moved?

One thing which might be possible is to dig up the Viburnum and put it
in pot, then replace it in the raised bed. This would have the effect
of acting like a bonsai planting by restricting the roots, and so
keeping topgrowth down. Your neighbour would have to be pretty rigorous
about watering it in dry spells, though!

This may kill two birds with one stone. You mentioned that the bed is
overrun with muscari, and he wants to improve its appearance. Do you
know just /how/ difficult it will be to get rid of the muscari?! You
can try spraying it with glyphosate, but you'll need to do it several
times and it will probably take more than a year to kill it all off.
And if you think you can just dig it up and take out the bulbs, think
again! The damn bulbs have dozens of tiny bulbs attached to them, which
break off and fall all over the place at the slightest disturbance,
ready to make a new flowering-size bulb in a couple of years. I speak
from experience, having tried to get muscari out of a raised peat bed!
It might be best to remove all the soil from the bed to a depth of at
least 9 inches, and dump it at the bottom of a very deep compost heap,
or offer it to someone who has a lot of pond plants to pot up. The
bulbs won't survive immersion in water.

--

Jeff

On 2013-12-12 09:16:04 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

On 12/12/2013 00:20, Frank Booth wrote:
A neighbour planted a Viburnum Tinus in a narrow raised bed which is
basically a double 4' wall with a hollow area used for planting on top. At
the moment it's overrun with Muscari, and at one end is this very healthy
lookung Viburnum Tinus full of pink bud. The viburnum is about 2' tall so
it's a young shrub. He asked me how to improve the look of the bed as it
currently looks a mess with all the Muscari leaves. I suggested Aubtretia,
Iberis and a few other alpine types. I then mentioned that his Viburnum was
planted in the wrong place and needed to be moved as its potential height
and spread is 8'. He was insistent on leaving it in there asking could it
not be pruned sufficiently each year to keep ot at its current size. I
pointed out that it was possible but the roots would spread and possibly
damage his wall.

So, is my neighbour ok leaving the shrub in this bed or should it be moved?

One thing which might be possible is to dig up the Viburnum and put it
in pot, then replace it in the raised bed. This would have the effect
of acting like a bonsai planting by restricting the roots, and so
keeping topgrowth down. Your neighbour would have to be pretty
rigorous about watering it in dry spells, though!

This may kill two birds with one stone. You mentioned that the bed is
overrun with muscari, and he wants to improve its appearance. Do you
know just /how/ difficult it will be to get rid of the muscari?! You
can try spraying it with glyphosate, but you'll need to do it several
times and it will probably take more than a year to kill it all off.
And if you think you can just dig it up and take out the bulbs, think
again! The damn bulbs have dozens of tiny bulbs attached to them,
which break off and fall all over the place at the slightest
disturbance, ready to make a new flowering-size bulb in a couple of
years. I speak from experience, having tried to get muscari out of a
raised peat bed! It might be best to remove all the soil from the bed
to a depth of at least 9 inches, and dump it at the bottom of a very
deep compost heap, or offer it to someone who has a lot of pond plants
to pot up. The bulbs won't survive immersion in water.

Viburnum tinus can be used as a hedge and can be kept to the required
size. But the roots could be a problem in that situation. I suppose
you could point out to him, in a friendly spirit, that if there's
damage to the wall, he'll have to be the one that repairs it. I'm not
sure where you are but if the soil is sufficiently well-drained and the
position sunny enough etc. he could grow lavender more successfully in
terms of size and colour, or depending on location, rosemary. I can't
imagine why anyone would want to get rid of Muscari, myself! But
Cerastium tomentosum (aka Snow In Summer) would probably do well and
it's pretty rampant. It also has a long flowering season. And how about
looking at Erigeron karvinskianus.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

It's a good place for herbs too - I have golden marjoram, several different thymes, winter savory. Decorative, and food as well.

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 12/12/2013 00:20, Frank Booth wrote:
A neighbour planted a Viburnum Tinus in a narrow raised bed which is
basically a double 4' wall with a hollow area used for planting on top.
At
the moment it's overrun with Muscari, and at one end is this very
healthy
lookung Viburnum Tinus full of pink bud. The viburnum is about 2' tall
so
it's a young shrub. He asked me how to improve the look of the bed as it
currently looks a mess with all the Muscari leaves. I suggested
Aubtretia,
Iberis and a few other alpine types. I then mentioned that his Viburnum
was
planted in the wrong place and needed to be moved as its potential
height
and spread is 8'. He was insistent on leaving it in there asking could
it
not be pruned sufficiently each year to keep ot at its current size. I
pointed out that it was possible but the roots would spread and possibly
damage his wall.

So, is my neighbour ok leaving the shrub in this bed or should it be
moved?

One thing which might be possible is to dig up the Viburnum and put it
in pot, then replace it in the raised bed. This would have the effect
of acting like a bonsai planting by restricting the roots, and so
keeping topgrowth down. Your neighbour would have to be pretty rigorous
about watering it in dry spells, though!

This may kill two birds with one stone. You mentioned that the bed is
overrun with muscari, and he wants to improve its appearance. Do you
know just /how/ difficult it will be to get rid of the muscari?! You
can try spraying it with glyphosate, but you'll need to do it several
times and it will probably take more than a year to kill it all off.
And if you think you can just dig it up and take out the bulbs, think
again! The damn bulbs have dozens of tiny bulbs attached to them, which
break off and fall all over the place at the slightest disturbance,
ready to make a new flowering-size bulb in a couple of years. I speak
from experience, having tried to get muscari out of a raised peat bed!
It might be best to remove all the soil from the bed to a depth of at
least 9 inches, and dump it at the bottom of a very deep compost heap,
or offer it to someone who has a lot of pond plants to pot up. The
bulbs won't survive immersion in water.

Dealing with the Muscari problem isn't too bad I've discovered providing you
get a fork (even a hand fork) underneath you can lift a clump of them up
intact. Even if a few bubils do break off, just rummaging your hand through
the soil you can pick up most if not all of the bubils.If you miss a few,
when the leaves of them surface in autumn it's easy to hand pull them out.

The bonsai thing with the Viburnum sounds a good idea, but if I'm not
mistaken with Bonsai cultivation don't you have to keep trimming the roots
to keep the plant small? That would mean having to keep digging up the pot
and knocking the plant out, pruning roots, then replanting which is a
hassle. I don't think it would do the Viburnum much good either as they
don't like being disturbed.

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-12-12 09:16:04 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

Viburnum tinus can be used as a hedge and can be kept to the required
size. But the roots could be a problem in that situation. I suppose
you could point out to him, in a friendly spirit, that if there's
damage to the wall, he'll have to be the one that repairs it. I'm not
sure where you are but if the soil is sufficiently well-drained and the
position sunny enough etc. he could grow lavender more successfully in
terms of size and colour, or depending on location, rosemary. I can't
imagine why anyone would want to get rid of Muscari, myself! But
Cerastium tomentosum (aka Snow In Summer) would probably do well and
it's pretty rampant. It also has a long flowering season. And how about
looking at Erigeron karvinskianus.

I think ordinary lavenda is a bit too big unless you are thinking of
Munstead which is a nice idea, but I don't know how long it lives for.
Doesn't it need hot summers to really do well? I'd cetainly put that on my
list. Erigeron is ok if you are into daisies, not for me but maybe my
neighbour might prefer them.Cerastium's a nice idea perhaps as a possible
alternative to Iberis Sempervirens which I'm a big fan of, and it flowers
non stop for nearly 3 months into early summer. Armeria Splendens is another
one when it comes to summer flowering.

I've removed the lavender which was growing in my wall and placed it at the bottom instead. It is big - it looks OK if you just have lavender (so everything's on a scale), but looks scruffy in a mixed bed. Apart from them herbs above, and the iberis, snow in summer, aubretia and armeria which have already been mentioned, I also have rock roses, sedum (the small white flowered one), dwarf wallflowers (not so neat, but they're in a less visible spot and give early perfume), ivy leaved toadflax (?Cymbalaria) = you could use the larger flowered garden variety, pinks, Nottingham catchfly.

Thymes and the rockery dianthus are good for extending the flowering period later into the summer.

The important things are

1) get a complete covering of foliage. If you have gaps between plants, it just looks as if they're struggling.

2) get a variety of foliage for when things aren't in flower. I really value the bright yellow of the golden oregano.

On 13/12/2013 04:08, Frank Booth wrote:

The bonsai thing with the Viburnum sounds a good idea, but if I'm not
mistaken with Bonsai cultivation don't you have to keep trimming the roots
to keep the plant small? That would mean having to keep digging up the pot
and knocking the plant out, pruning roots, then replanting which is a
hassle. I don't think it would do the Viburnum much good either as they
don't like being disturbed.

Yes, with true bonsai you have to trim the roots to keep the tree
dwarfed (could also help stop the roots pushing the tree out of what are
usually very shallow pots). But restricting the roots has a somewhat, if
lesser, effect. Just think of those potbound plants which are often
seen in sales at garden centres. Once released from the confines of a
small pot and given free root run they grow like mad! If the viburnum
were kept in a small, buried pot, with the drainage holes uncrocked, it
could get its roots out through the holes and get some extra sustenance
from the soil around the pot, but it would be limited in the extent it
could do that.

Maybe once every 5 years or so the whole pot could be raised (after a
good watering with a liquid fertiliser) and the roots which had escaped
could be trimmed, and the pot replaced. I have no idea if this is
feasible or not, but it might just work, as most of the roots would be
left untouched.

--

Jeff

On 2013-12-13 04:50:43 +0000, Frank Booth said:

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 2013-12-12 09:16:04 +0000, Jeff Layman said:

Viburnum tinus can be used as a hedge and can be kept to the required
size. But the roots could be a problem in that situation. I suppose
you could point out to him, in a friendly spirit, that if there's
damage to the wall, he'll have to be the one that repairs it. I'm not
sure where you are but if the soil is sufficiently well-drained and the
position sunny enough etc. he could grow lavender more successfully in
terms of size and colour, or depending on location, rosemary. I can't
imagine why anyone would want to get rid of Muscari, myself! But
Cerastium tomentosum (aka Snow In Summer) would probably do well and
it's pretty rampant. It also has a long flowering season. And how about
looking at Erigeron karvinskianus.

I think ordinary lavenda is a bit too big unless you are thinking of
Munstead snip

Hidcote would be our suggestion. But lavenders do best in full sun and
good drainage. Years ago (over 13) I grew some under a window and it
did really badly. I then moved it all to a double skin low wall (3'
high) full of rubble at the bottom and a couple of feet of soil on top
of that. It worked like a charm and the lavender went mad. I last went
past that house about 8 months ago and the lavender is still looking
truly wonderful, billowing out into the lane and between the railings
atop the wall.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon