On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 15:11:51 +0000, sacha wrote:

Lol! The Americans often refer to pots in 'gallon' sizes!!

Not imperial gallons, though!

Maybe I should think of pots in terms of number of drams... (taking a sip)



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

On 2014-01-07 18:39:11 +0000, Emery Davis said:

On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 11:46:32 +0000, Sacha wrote:
[]
Ray rang this morning. These shrubs are £20 in 7cm pots but you can have
3 for £49.50! The plants are about 8 inches tall. No wonder pot size
isn't mentioned in this ad. This is even smaller than I'd imagined. We
were thinking at least 9cm pots. I wonder how many people buy them,
unwary and unseen, only to be astonished at what they've spent their £20
on.

Well that's simply outrageous!

Personally I prefer size, i.e. 1l, 3l etc. 7 cm tells all you need to
know also... very small.

I'm afraid it's standard practice for rarer plants to need a couple of
years of nursing before planting out. They arrive in such limited
quantity and are immediately snapped up, at whatever size, by
collectors. For rarities there's no choice but to order by mail, there
simply isn't any local availability. (Of course here in France there are
fewer good nurseries now, because they're taxed on stock as well as on
sales, so simply propagating becomes very expensive. A real shame.)

Also, small plants are cheaper to ship (assuming this cost is passed to
the buyer), and should be cheaper to buy. I get 2 yr Japanese maple
cultivars (grafted) for 8-10 € each, then I can grow them on.

-E

This particular plant is a little bit unusual but not a rarity in the
true sense. We sell it in 2 litre pots for £12.50! I'm not naming it
for obvious reasons but these are not seedlings taken from a Puya
clinging to a mountainside with a dead sheep at its roots! Both size
and price in the ad are simply outrageous in our view and make us
shudder!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 2014-01-07 17:04:51 +0000, Spider said:

On 07/01/2014 16:24, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-07 15:57:02 +0000, Spider said:

On 06/01/2014 19:08, sacha wrote:
Not really - but something I've briefly touched on with another Nursery
on Twitter and it seems to me that the experiences of urglers is
valuable both to each other and to the nurseryman in this. Few
nurseries selling online tell you what size pot your plant is going to
arrive in but we wonder if the average buyer knows the difference
between a 2 litre pot and a 10cm pot? I'm asking this because, frankly,
we have been shocked to see certain plants sold for £20 which, we're
fairly sure, will arrive in a 10cm pot, which means a small plant with a
small root system. We searched the ad and the website of the nursery
involved and see no reference to pot sizes at all. In the past we
ourselves have bought a supposedly 2 year old grape vine from a
reputable nursery but which had to be 'nursed' in a tunnel for 2 years
before planting out into a greenhouse. The same happened to a very
expensive but desirable Magnolia from another (different) well known
nursery. We didn't dare put it in the garden for two years!

How many people ask what size pot the plant will have grown into and how
many even consider the matter, I wonder. Do most just expect a small
plant and pay up happily? I know that, before I met Ray, as an
'ordinary' customer, pot sizes in litres meant nothing to me. I've
decided to measure the tops of ours and put those online because I think
it will make more sense to the average buyer.




I've been following this thread with interest. I have got so that I
mentally recognise pots measured in litres and inches (top
circumference). I can also manage metric pot sizes, but tend to
convert to imperial first.

Each has its ambiguity. I know roughly what a litre of compost looks
like, but that doesn't tell me how much of that volume is filled with
root. GCs often pot up small plants into 1ltr pots so they can charge
more. Nurseries do this less, but some are still guilty. On-line and
postal nurseries tend to keep the pots smaller (or send plants
bare-root) to ease postage.

A top circumference measurement is fine (whether imperial or metric),
but doesn't tell you the *depth* of the pot. 'Pans' are much shallower
than standard pots, which in turn are shallower than 'long tom' pots.

Perhaps, along with pot size, the labelling should say "garden ready"
or "established" (at least in catalogues). The depth of the pot is
harder to define, which is probably why volume in litres was adopted.
One way to get over this would be to label as follows:

Plant H2'x W1'
Pot 6"top x 4"depth.

Even this makes the customer ask whether the given plant measurement
is size at sale or size at maturity.

I think you may have opened a can of worms, Sacha! Squirm squirm :~).

Wow! Thanks, Spider but I think I'll stick with measuring the top of the
pot! We don't really use pans much at all and long toms are mainly for
sweet peas or a few shrubby climbers. You really can't give a plant
height and width at point of sale because they vary. Some will have
grown a few inches more or spread a few inches more, in the same size
pot and with equally good root systems. Sometimes, customers do ask us
how big a plant will be when they receive it so we trot out and pick a
good size and shape and tell them. The tallest might not be the
'fattest', so it's up to us to choose what we think best as they're not
there. On a couple of occasions, we've been asked to send photos of two
or three of the same plant, so the customer can pick the one they like!
I do wonder how large the plants are that some send out because we quite
often get delighted surprise as feedback from customers who have never
been to the Nursery. And of course, some nurseries or gcs do specialise
in small 'starter' plants because it keeps the p&p costs right down and
possibly the labour costs, too, as they're not potting on into 1s and 2s
every few weeks.




Understood, Sacha:~). I guess measuring the top is simplest. It's
quite something that you're prepared to photograph plants to give a
disembodied customer a selection!! Not many nurseries do that!
The plants I've bought from yours have always been good quality. So
far, I've not had to order on line. Much nicer to pop along and see
you and Ray .. and the plants of course!

Well, we like that, too! We have customers, who come in at least twice
a year, who live in Norfolk but who used to live down here. So on
their way to and from visiting other friends, they visit us, buy plants
and even take some occasionally to other gardens in Norfolk. They
often bring us bits and bobs from their travels and hand them to Ray to
propagate. Over the years, customers often become friends and it's one
of the perks.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 2014-01-07 18:38:20 +0000, David Hill said:
snip
You are buying a 8 inch pot 5 inches deep 4/5th filled with compost
Incidentally it contains a plant.

lol!!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On Tue, 7 Jan 2014 10:23:25 +0000, Sacha
wrote:

On 2014-01-07 00:22:43 +0000, Dave Liquorice said:

On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 20:56:36 +0000, Pete C wrote:

Yep, for me, pot diameter tells me what I want to know. 2lt is,
erm......oh I dunno!

Inclined to agree pot top diameter is easier to picture with ones
minds eye. I was going to add that is that "2 l pot" short and wide
or tall and thin but that argument could be used against just pot
diameter as well.

Quote everything? "15 cm (6") 2 l pot" B-)

We tend to use feet and inches on our web site but I should probably
spend hours going through it and putting both inches and cms into it!
I can get absolutely no mental picture of what 1.75m is! But the bits
I've read here and elsewhere convince me that it would be a good idea
to line up pots of various sizes, photograph them and show their sizes
with each one, both in litres & cms and probably, inches! Laborious to
do but easier for people to follow, I think.

Or you could just have a look at Crocus' website - they have dealt
with this very well. Look at an individual plant page and the pot size
guide.

On 2014-01-08 15:24:03 +0000, Chris Hogg said:

On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:49:41 +0000, sacha wrote:

I intend to photograph the range of empty pots and give the imperial
and metric diameters, as you suggest.

Is there any point in actually photographing the pots? It's impossible
to judge the size of a pot just by a photograph of the pot alone,
unless there's something familiar to everyone and of standard size
that's also in the picture and by which to judge the size of the pot.

I've photographed 1, 2 and 3 litre pots and given their measurements
and volume. I think seeing the 3 together gives a good idea of size,
especially with their measurements across. I'm not concerned with the
pot height because every plant or type of plant will be different.
Although we grow plants in very much larger pots, too, obviously, we
rarely send out more than a 2 or 3.
--

Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon
www.helpforheroes.org.uk

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 13:49:41 +0000, sacha wrote:

I intend to photograph the range of empty pots and give the imperial
and metric diameters, as you suggest.

Is there any point in actually photographing the pots? It's impossible
to judge the size of a pot just by a photograph of the pot alone,
unless there's something familiar to everyone and of standard size
that's also in the picture and by which to judge the size of the pot.

--

Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall overlooking the sea.
Mild, but very exposed to salt gales

==============================================

Chris in Percy Whiting's book "The Five Great Rules of Selling"

http://www.worldcat.org/title/five-g...=di&ht=edition

the first Rule is ATTENTION and whilst Sacha has really gone to town on this
pot size thing in her advertising here and on Gardenbanter, a striking photo
would be superb and show what it is all about, by comparison. But comparison
to 'what'?

Now if it was me I would bring an element of 'Common knowledge' into the
advertising. Let me explain. A few years back I wanted publicity for the RN
Shipmates System, a system for those who had served in the Royal Navy to
find those they had served with many and not so many years ago. I wanted a
'catchy' title to my press releases. ""I collect Sailors"" was the title. It
worked. I had publicity in hundreds of local newspapers and was interviewed
on nearly all BBC Local Radio Stations.

Comparison. To what? A tin of Heinz Tomato Soup
............................... I jest not.

However ................................. :-(

Mike

---------------------------------------------------------------
www.friendsofshanklintheatre.co.uk
www.hmscollingwoodassociation.com
www.rneba.org.uk
www.nsrafa.org

On 08/01/2014 00:57, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-07 17:04:51 +0000, Spider said:

On 07/01/2014 16:24, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-07 15:57:02 +0000, Spider said:

On 06/01/2014 19:08, sacha wrote:
Not really - but something I've briefly touched on with another
Nursery
on Twitter and it seems to me that the experiences of urglers is
valuable both to each other and to the nurseryman in this. Few
nurseries selling online tell you what size pot your plant is going to
arrive in but we wonder if the average buyer knows the difference
between a 2 litre pot and a 10cm pot? I'm asking this because,
frankly,
we have been shocked to see certain plants sold for £20 which, we're
fairly sure, will arrive in a 10cm pot, which means a small plant
with a
small root system. We searched the ad and the website of the nursery
involved and see no reference to pot sizes at all. In the past we
ourselves have bought a supposedly 2 year old grape vine from a
reputable nursery but which had to be 'nursed' in a tunnel for 2 years
before planting out into a greenhouse. The same happened to a very
expensive but desirable Magnolia from another (different) well known
nursery. We didn't dare put it in the garden for two years!

How many people ask what size pot the plant will have grown into
and how
many even consider the matter, I wonder. Do most just expect a small
plant and pay up happily? I know that, before I met Ray, as an
'ordinary' customer, pot sizes in litres meant nothing to me. I've
decided to measure the tops of ours and put those online because I
think
it will make more sense to the average buyer.




I've been following this thread with interest. I have got so that I
mentally recognise pots measured in litres and inches (top
circumference). I can also manage metric pot sizes, but tend to
convert to imperial first.

Each has its ambiguity. I know roughly what a litre of compost looks
like, but that doesn't tell me how much of that volume is filled with
root. GCs often pot up small plants into 1ltr pots so they can charge
more. Nurseries do this less, but some are still guilty. On-line and
postal nurseries tend to keep the pots smaller (or send plants
bare-root) to ease postage.

A top circumference measurement is fine (whether imperial or metric),
but doesn't tell you the *depth* of the pot. 'Pans' are much shallower
than standard pots, which in turn are shallower than 'long tom' pots.

Perhaps, along with pot size, the labelling should say "garden ready"
or "established" (at least in catalogues). The depth of the pot is
harder to define, which is probably why volume in litres was adopted.
One way to get over this would be to label as follows:

Plant H2'x W1'
Pot 6"top x 4"depth.

Even this makes the customer ask whether the given plant measurement
is size at sale or size at maturity.

I think you may have opened a can of worms, Sacha! Squirm squirm :~).

Wow! Thanks, Spider but I think I'll stick with measuring the top of the
pot! We don't really use pans much at all and long toms are mainly for
sweet peas or a few shrubby climbers. You really can't give a plant
height and width at point of sale because they vary. Some will have
grown a few inches more or spread a few inches more, in the same size
pot and with equally good root systems. Sometimes, customers do ask us
how big a plant will be when they receive it so we trot out and pick a
good size and shape and tell them. The tallest might not be the
'fattest', so it's up to us to choose what we think best as they're not
there. On a couple of occasions, we've been asked to send photos of two
or three of the same plant, so the customer can pick the one they like!
I do wonder how large the plants are that some send out because we quite
often get delighted surprise as feedback from customers who have never
been to the Nursery. And of course, some nurseries or gcs do specialise
in small 'starter' plants because it keeps the p&p costs right down and
possibly the labour costs, too, as they're not potting on into 1s and 2s
every few weeks.




Understood, Sacha:~). I guess measuring the top is simplest. It's
quite something that you're prepared to photograph plants to give a
disembodied customer a selection!! Not many nurseries do that!
The plants I've bought from yours have always been good quality. So
far, I've not had to order on line. Much nicer to pop along and see
you and Ray .. and the plants of course!

Well, we like that, too! We have customers, who come in at least twice
a year, who live in Norfolk but who used to live down here. So on their
way to and from visiting other friends, they visit us, buy plants and
even take some occasionally to other gardens in Norfolk. They often
bring us bits and bobs from their travels and hand them to Ray to
propagate. Over the years, customers often become friends and it's one
of the perks.




Sounds good to me, too! :~)
When we've roughly sorted our itinerary, I'll be in touch by private
email. Is that myzen?

--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

On 2014-01-08 18:43:39 +0000, Spider said:

On 08/01/2014 00:57, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-07 17:04:51 +0000, Spider said:

On 07/01/2014 16:24, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-07 15:57:02 +0000, Spider said:

On 06/01/2014 19:08, sacha wrote:
Not really - but something I've briefly touched on with another
Nursery
on Twitter and it seems to me that the experiences of urglers is
valuable both to each other and to the nurseryman in this. Few
nurseries selling online tell you what size pot your plant is going to
arrive in but we wonder if the average buyer knows the difference
between a 2 litre pot and a 10cm pot? I'm asking this because,
frankly,
we have been shocked to see certain plants sold for £20 which, we're
fairly sure, will arrive in a 10cm pot, which means a small plant
with a
small root system. We searched the ad and the website of the nursery
involved and see no reference to pot sizes at all. In the past we
ourselves have bought a supposedly 2 year old grape vine from a
reputable nursery but which had to be 'nursed' in a tunnel for 2 years
before planting out into a greenhouse. The same happened to a very
expensive but desirable Magnolia from another (different) well known
nursery. We didn't dare put it in the garden for two years!

How many people ask what size pot the plant will have grown into
and how
many even consider the matter, I wonder. Do most just expect a small
plant and pay up happily? I know that, before I met Ray, as an
'ordinary' customer, pot sizes in litres meant nothing to me. I've
decided to measure the tops of ours and put those online because I
think
it will make more sense to the average buyer.




I've been following this thread with interest. I have got so that I
mentally recognise pots measured in litres and inches (top
circumference). I can also manage metric pot sizes, but tend to
convert to imperial first.

Each has its ambiguity. I know roughly what a litre of compost looks
like, but that doesn't tell me how much of that volume is filled with
root. GCs often pot up small plants into 1ltr pots so they can charge
more. Nurseries do this less, but some are still guilty. On-line and
postal nurseries tend to keep the pots smaller (or send plants
bare-root) to ease postage.

A top circumference measurement is fine (whether imperial or metric),
but doesn't tell you the *depth* of the pot. 'Pans' are much shallower
than standard pots, which in turn are shallower than 'long tom' pots.

Perhaps, along with pot size, the labelling should say "garden ready"
or "established" (at least in catalogues). The depth of the pot is
harder to define, which is probably why volume in litres was adopted.
One way to get over this would be to label as follows:

Plant H2'x W1'
Pot 6"top x 4"depth.

Even this makes the customer ask whether the given plant measurement
is size at sale or size at maturity.

I think you may have opened a can of worms, Sacha! Squirm squirm :~).

Wow! Thanks, Spider but I think I'll stick with measuring the top of the
pot! We don't really use pans much at all and long toms are mainly for
sweet peas or a few shrubby climbers. You really can't give a plant
height and width at point of sale because they vary. Some will have
grown a few inches more or spread a few inches more, in the same size
pot and with equally good root systems. Sometimes, customers do ask us
how big a plant will be when they receive it so we trot out and pick a
good size and shape and tell them. The tallest might not be the
'fattest', so it's up to us to choose what we think best as they're not
there. On a couple of occasions, we've been asked to send photos of two
or three of the same plant, so the customer can pick the one they like!
I do wonder how large the plants are that some send out because we quite
often get delighted surprise as feedback from customers who have never
been to the Nursery. And of course, some nurseries or gcs do specialise
in small 'starter' plants because it keeps the p&p costs right down and
possibly the labour costs, too, as they're not potting on into 1s and 2s
every few weeks.




Understood, Sacha:~). I guess measuring the top is simplest. It's
quite something that you're prepared to photograph plants to give a
disembodied customer a selection!! Not many nurseries do that!
The plants I've bought from yours have always been good quality. So
far, I've not had to order on line. Much nicer to pop along and see
you and Ray .. and the plants of course!

Well, we like that, too! We have customers, who come in at least twice
a year, who live in Norfolk but who used to live down here. So on their
way to and from visiting other friends, they visit us, buy plants and
even take some occasionally to other gardens in Norfolk. They often
bring us bits and bobs from their travels and hand them to Ray to
propagate. Over the years, customers often become friends and it's one
of the perks.




Sounds good to me, too! :~)
When we've roughly sorted our itinerary, I'll be in touch by private
email. Is that myzen?

No, it's changed. If you email , it will
either come to me or be forwarded to me.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.com
South Devon

On 08/01/2014 18:48, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-08 18:43:39 +0000, Spider said:

On 08/01/2014 00:57, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-07 17:04:51 +0000, Spider said:

On 07/01/2014 16:24, sacha wrote:
On 2014-01-07 15:57:02 +0000, Spider said:

On 06/01/2014 19:08, sacha wrote:
Not really - but something I've briefly touched on with another
Nursery
on Twitter and it seems to me that the experiences of urglers is
valuable both to each other and to the nurseryman in this. Few
nurseries selling online tell you what size pot your plant is
going to
arrive in but we wonder if the average buyer knows the difference
between a 2 litre pot and a 10cm pot? I'm asking this because,
frankly,
we have been shocked to see certain plants sold for £20 which, we're
fairly sure, will arrive in a 10cm pot, which means a small plant
with a
small root system. We searched the ad and the website of the
nursery
involved and see no reference to pot sizes at all. In the past we
ourselves have bought a supposedly 2 year old grape vine from a
reputable nursery but which had to be 'nursed' in a tunnel for 2
years
before planting out into a greenhouse. The same happened to a very
expensive but desirable Magnolia from another (different) well known
nursery. We didn't dare put it in the garden for two years!

How many people ask what size pot the plant will have grown into
and how
many even consider the matter, I wonder. Do most just expect a
small
plant and pay up happily? I know that, before I met Ray, as an
'ordinary' customer, pot sizes in litres meant nothing to me. I've
decided to measure the tops of ours and put those online because I
think
it will make more sense to the average buyer.




I've been following this thread with interest. I have got so that I
mentally recognise pots measured in litres and inches (top
circumference). I can also manage metric pot sizes, but tend to
convert to imperial first.

Each has its ambiguity. I know roughly what a litre of compost looks
like, but that doesn't tell me how much of that volume is filled with
root. GCs often pot up small plants into 1ltr pots so they can charge
more. Nurseries do this less, but some are still guilty. On-line and
postal nurseries tend to keep the pots smaller (or send plants
bare-root) to ease postage.

A top circumference measurement is fine (whether imperial or metric),
but doesn't tell you the *depth* of the pot. 'Pans' are much
shallower
than standard pots, which in turn are shallower than 'long tom' pots.

Perhaps, along with pot size, the labelling should say "garden ready"
or "established" (at least in catalogues). The depth of the pot is
harder to define, which is probably why volume in litres was adopted.
One way to get over this would be to label as follows:

Plant H2'x W1'
Pot 6"top x 4"depth.

Even this makes the customer ask whether the given plant measurement
is size at sale or size at maturity.

I think you may have opened a can of worms, Sacha! Squirm squirm
:~).

Wow! Thanks, Spider but I think I'll stick with measuring the top
of the
pot! We don't really use pans much at all and long toms are mainly
for
sweet peas or a few shrubby climbers. You really can't give a plant
height and width at point of sale because they vary. Some will have
grown a few inches more or spread a few inches more, in the same size
pot and with equally good root systems. Sometimes, customers do ask us
how big a plant will be when they receive it so we trot out and pick a
good size and shape and tell them. The tallest might not be the
'fattest', so it's up to us to choose what we think best as
they're not
there. On a couple of occasions, we've been asked to send photos
of two
or three of the same plant, so the customer can pick the one they
like!
I do wonder how large the plants are that some send out because we
quite
often get delighted surprise as feedback from customers who have never
been to the Nursery. And of course, some nurseries or gcs do
specialise
in small 'starter' plants because it keeps the p&p costs right down
and
possibly the labour costs, too, as they're not potting on into 1s
and 2s
every few weeks.




Understood, Sacha:~). I guess measuring the top is simplest. It's
quite something that you're prepared to photograph plants to give a
disembodied customer a selection!! Not many nurseries do that!
The plants I've bought from yours have always been good quality. So
far, I've not had to order on line. Much nicer to pop along and see
you and Ray .. and the plants of course!

Well, we like that, too! We have customers, who come in at least twice
a year, who live in Norfolk but who used to live down here. So on their
way to and from visiting other friends, they visit us, buy plants and
even take some occasionally to other gardens in Norfolk. They often
bring us bits and bobs from their travels and hand them to Ray to
propagate. Over the years, customers often become friends and it's one
of the perks.




Sounds good to me, too! :~)
When we've roughly sorted our itinerary, I'll be in touch by private
email. Is that myzen?

No, it's changed. If you email , it will
either come to me or be forwarded to me.




Thanks, Sacha. I think RG tried to email you at myzen and failed, so
I'll tell him.
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay