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#346
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In article , Tim Tyler wrote:
That's not an accurate impression - I eat turkey, liver and kidneys - and fish and seafood. You eat liver and seafood and you claim to be keen to reduce your exposure to toxins? You are aware I hope that many toxins the liver can't handle get stored in it? Also the levels of metals, not just mercury in seafood? BTW are you aware of the previous history of the land you use to grow your food on? There is no such thing as real low risk food. Peter -- Peter Ashby School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded. Reverse the Spam and remove to email me. |
#347
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In article , Tim Tyler wrote:
The consumer just wants the fruit. Where it is grown - and whether it is transported by burning fossil fuels - is not under their control, and consequently it's hard to see how they can be held responsible for any resulting damage. the country of origin is clearly on supermarket fruit. That is how I can ensure I buy New Zealand apples. I only eat apples in season, the NZ season as I only like crisp apples. Of course how you can get an apple to market in Europe from the other side of the planet in better condition than local producers is another question. Peter -- Peter Ashby School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded. Reverse the Spam and remove to email me. |
#348
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 29 May 2003 16:55:08 GMT, Malcolm wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2003 17:46:08 +0100, Oz wrote: Peter Duncanson writes On Thu, 29 May 2003 15:04:58 GMT, Malcolm wrote: Yeah but not many of us will deliberately coat liberal; quantities of highly toxic poisons onto peoples foodstuffs, not knowingly anyway, and then still claim innocence. I think knowledgeable people here (uk.business.agriculture) have, and will, challenge(d) your reference to "highly toxic poisons". Unlikely, he's probably been killfiled by everyone due to a sub-70 IQ and total inability to learn anything at all. That'll be quite a few points above you then old chum, I'm not the one sitting here whining about how hard done by I am, because I produce crap goods and nobody wants them. You have it back to front. The general public will buy what you call the "crap" goods but will not pay for the "non-crap" goods. In fact I have a proper job and earn a fortune, more then enough to pay for my choice not to be poisoned by subsidy inbreds like yourself, I choose where and who I buy or sell from, You appear to operate in a sellers' market - much of UK farming operates in a buyers' market - big difference. Effective decision-making power tends to reside outside the farm fence, not inside. Subsidies relieve the end purchaser of having to pay the proper price for the goods. One of the reasons they are paid is to give the nation some degree of self-sufficiency in food supply. You describe yourself as having a "proper job". When we get down to basics, proper jobs are those that: (1) produce and distribute the necessities of life: water, food and shelter. (On this planet, the other necessity, breathable air is, so far, freely available.) (2) provide equipment with which to do the above. (3) train people to do the above. Then (4) provide defence from internal and external threats. All else, however important, is secondary, tertiary, ... you are apparently too dumb to work it out, even though the writing was on the wall years ago. Sub 50 should cover you and the other Bennies quite nicely. -- Peter Duncanson UK |
#349
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In article ,
"BAC" wrote: We all think we know best, but governments have to take all of our views into consideration. 'Have to'? Only when it suits them! They have to take them into consideration, they don't have to then act on them of course. That is why they embark on costly consultation exercises which produce reports which get shelved and quietly forgotten. Peter -- Peter Ashby School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee, Scotland To assume that I speak for the University of Dundee is to be deluded. Reverse the Spam and remove to email me. |
#350
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 29 May 2003 17:59:28 +0100, "Jim Webster"
wrote: "Oz" wrote in message news Peter Duncanson writes On Thu, 29 May 2003 15:04:58 GMT, Malcolm wrote: Yeah but not many of us will deliberately coat liberal; quantities of highly toxic poisons onto peoples foodstuffs, not knowingly anyway, and then still claim innocence. I think knowledgeable people here (uk.business.agriculture) have, and will, challenge(d) your reference to "highly toxic poisons". Unlikely, he's probably been killfiled by everyone due to a sub-70 IQ and total inability to learn anything at all. not only that but his definition of highly toxic can only be described as eccentric, due to the sheer number of people who resolutely refuse to die after eating all these highly toxic poisions. Must be an awful lot of kill filters not working round here, but then I never afforded those that claim to use them that much intelligence as knowing how to apply them. A little bit here, a little bit there, equals tonnes and tonnes consumed by us all and the environment. Not good, really isn't. After all he is the one who washes food with detergent Washing food in an eco friendly detergent is nowhere near similar to covering the whole crop in highly toxic poisons for months, from seed to final produce. I'm happy to take my chances I produce, not so happy when others produce it. but cannot cope with the fact that the most dangerous thing about roundup is the other contents of the tank mix Shame the facts don't back you up. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
#351
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 29 May 2003 18:34:09 +0100, Peter Duncanson
wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 16:55:08 GMT, Malcolm wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 17:46:08 +0100, Oz wrote: Peter Duncanson writes On Thu, 29 May 2003 15:04:58 GMT, Malcolm wrote: Yeah but not many of us will deliberately coat liberal; quantities of highly toxic poisons onto peoples foodstuffs, not knowingly anyway, and then still claim innocence. I think knowledgeable people here (uk.business.agriculture) have, and will, challenge(d) your reference to "highly toxic poisons". Unlikely, he's probably been killfiled by everyone due to a sub-70 IQ and total inability to learn anything at all. That'll be quite a few points above you then old chum, I'm not the one sitting here whining about how hard done by I am, because I produce crap goods and nobody wants them. You have it back to front. The general public will buy what you call the "crap" goods but will not pay for the "non-crap" goods. Their choice, that doesn't justify the producer using highly toxic substances just because people are gullible enough to let them get away with it. In fact I have a proper job and earn a fortune, more then enough to pay for my choice not to be poisoned by subsidy inbreds like yourself, I choose where and who I buy or sell from, You appear to operate in a sellers' market - much of UK farming operates in a buyers' market - big difference. Effective decision-making power tends to reside outside the farm fence, not inside. Any business operates the same, price yourself in or out of a market it's your fault, not the buyers. Subsidies relieve the end purchaser of having to pay the proper price for the goods. One of the reasons they are paid is to give the nation some degree of self-sufficiency in food supply. Rubbish, it was a gravy train for British farmers and now most have forgotten how to do a good days work for a fair days pay. If they spent as much time growing good quality food, as they did trying to cut corners we'd all be better off. You describe yourself as having a "proper job". When we get down to basics, proper jobs are those that: (1) produce and distribute the necessities of life: water, food and shelter. (On this planet, the other necessity, breathable air is, so far, freely available.) (2) provide equipment with which to do the above. (3) train people to do the above. Then (4) provide defence from internal and external threats. All else, however important, is secondary, tertiary, ... Precisely and if your job does not provide that you move on and find another job. Luckily in the UK we can all afford to use that choice. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
#352
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 29 May 2003 15:53:49 GMT, Malcolm wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2003 16:44:58 +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 15:04:58 GMT, Malcolm wrote: There is a similar vicious circle involved in food production/processing/distribution. Yeah but not many of us will deliberately coat liberal; quantities of highly toxic poisons onto peoples foodstuffs, not knowingly anyway, and then still claim innocence. I think knowledgeable people here (uk.business.agriculture) have, and will, challenge(d) your reference to "highly toxic poisons". No doubt they will, I'll be happy sticking to the facts. They are highly toxic, regardless the quantity used, I don't want them anywhere near my food thanks. The people who have the power to break these vicious circles are governments. Unfortunately some of the actions they would need to take are so disruptive and draconian that they recoil from them. I blame the producers in equally parts, no one forces them to use poisons, they choose to. You say "they choose to" - what are other practical choices are available? Accept less yields per acre, a yield where good, wholesome is available for us all, a yield that was possible long before factory farming became a reality. There are only so many corners that can be cut, messing with my health aint one of them. Remember that "practical" includes issues of cost and saleability. Practical ends as far as I am concerned when it's a choice between poisoning people or not. If you cannot earn a living doing a job properly, find another job. You mistake me for a farmer - I am flattered. Actually I am retired after 40+ years in computers. No producer is going to waste money on "highly toxic poisons" if there are less toxic, equally effective and/or cheaper alternatives. No doubt Himmler thought along the same lines. How did he get in here? Google -- Google -- Himmler had a degree in agronomy and was a poultry farmer for a few years before he took to exterminating humans. Not relevant in this context. Anything that increases the cost of production moves the producer that much closer to being priced out of the market - and out of business. So find another job. Farming is not just a job. It produces some of the necessities of life. It is part of our life-support system. Most produce coming off farms goes directly or indirectly to supermarkets. Guess who sets the prices that are paid for the produce. Irrelevant. If I had a product for sale, it is at a price I can live off, if that's not possible I find another job. As above. Supermarkets pride themselves on their ability to get what they need, of a quality specified by them, at any time of the year, from almost anywhere in the world. If the price is even fractionally too high the supermarket buyer will so "NO". Damn right too, don't blame the supermarkets for the mug farmer not being able to manage his own business. You set a price you cannot go below, it's how business works. And in the case of farmers - cease farming. I have no sympathy for farmers brought up on subsidy mentality, it was a golden goose, it's now gone, live with it and start running business properly or find another job. Most of us have had too. Most farmers are trying to run their businesses properly. They are prevented from setting realistic prices. I look at the overall situation from the point of view of maintaining a secure supply of adequately nutritious and adequately safe, food to the people of this country. To me this would seem to require enough production in this country to feed the population at an emergency level indefinitely. This means not only having the farms but also having substantial buffer stocks because of the seasonal nature of food production. Compare the UK with Iraq: Before the recent war in Iraq the goverment there is reported to have distributed some (6) months food supply to all families. In the UK: How many months emergency rations do you (and your friends and neighbours) have personally available? (Is it even as much as a month?) How many months reserves are there in the wholesale and retail distribution channels? -- Peter Duncanson UK |
#353
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
Peter Duncanson writes
How many months emergency rations do you (and your friends and neighbours) have personally available? (Is it even as much as a month?) It'd be getting pretty thin (with what's in the larder) after a couple of weeks. How many months reserves are there in the wholesale and retail distribution channels? Three days retail. What do you mean by wholesale? -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
#354
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 29 May 2003 19:13:49 +0100, Peter Duncanson
wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 15:53:49 GMT, Malcolm wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 16:44:58 +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 15:04:58 GMT, Malcolm wrote: There is a similar vicious circle involved in food production/processing/distribution. Yeah but not many of us will deliberately coat liberal; quantities of highly toxic poisons onto peoples foodstuffs, not knowingly anyway, and then still claim innocence. I think knowledgeable people here (uk.business.agriculture) have, and will, challenge(d) your reference to "highly toxic poisons". No doubt they will, I'll be happy sticking to the facts. They are highly toxic, regardless the quantity used, I don't want them anywhere near my food thanks. The people who have the power to break these vicious circles are governments. Unfortunately some of the actions they would need to take are so disruptive and draconian that they recoil from them. I blame the producers in equally parts, no one forces them to use poisons, they choose to. You say "they choose to" - what are other practical choices are available? Accept less yields per acre, a yield where good, wholesome is available for us all, a yield that was possible long before factory farming became a reality. There are only so many corners that can be cut, messing with my health aint one of them. Remember that "practical" includes issues of cost and saleability. Practical ends as far as I am concerned when it's a choice between poisoning people or not. If you cannot earn a living doing a job properly, find another job. You mistake me for a farmer - I am flattered. Actually I am retired after 40+ years in computers. No I am figuratively speaking :-) I know nothing about you and would not presume to do so. We are simply armchair generals putting the world to rights. No producer is going to waste money on "highly toxic poisons" if there are less toxic, equally effective and/or cheaper alternatives. No doubt Himmler thought along the same lines. How did he get in here? Cheap, nasty quick fixes and stuff the consequence to the human race. It's a long story ;-) Google -- Google -- Himmler had a degree in agronomy and was a poultry farmer for a few years before he took to exterminating humans. Not relevant in this context. It is in my opinion. Anything that increases the cost of production moves the producer that much closer to being priced out of the market - and out of business. So find another job. Farming is not just a job. It produces some of the necessities of life. It is part of our life-support system. Obviously, that doesn't give them the right to feed us and try to kill us off at the same time. Most produce coming off farms goes directly or indirectly to supermarkets. Guess who sets the prices that are paid for the produce. Irrelevant. If I had a product for sale, it is at a price I can live off, if that's not possible I find another job. As above. Indeed. Supermarkets pride themselves on their ability to get what they need, of a quality specified by them, at any time of the year, from almost anywhere in the world. If the price is even fractionally too high the supermarket buyer will so "NO". Damn right too, don't blame the supermarkets for the mug farmer not being able to manage his own business. You set a price you cannot go below, it's how business works. And in the case of farmers - cease farming. Leave it to those who can make it work, obvious solution. I have no sympathy for farmers brought up on subsidy mentality, it was a golden goose, it's now gone, live with it and start running business properly or find another job. Most of us have had too. Most farmers are trying to run their businesses properly. They are prevented from setting realistic prices. No they are mugs looking for a handout. I would never dream of serving the public up with the crap they produce. I look at the overall situation from the point of view of maintaining a secure supply of adequately nutritious and adequately safe, food to the people of this country. I don't, at the end of the day I can always grow my own, if necessary. To me this would seem to require enough production in this country to feed the population at an emergency level indefinitely. This means not only having the farms but also having substantial buffer stocks because of the seasonal nature of food production. You mean like we done years ago, before the poisons were let loose, yes I agree. Compare the UK with Iraq: Before the recent war in Iraq the goverment there is reported to have distributed some (6) months food supply to all families. In the UK: How many months emergency rations do you (and your friends and neighbours) have personally available? (Is it even as much as a month?) No, but if it were necessary I would ensure it were. How many months reserves are there in the wholesale and retail distribution channels? No idea. Don't kid yourself that needs must force us to embrace poisons, it's crap. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
#355
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 29 May 2003 16:54:55 GMT, Tim Tyler wrote:
No event as complex as shipping fruit around can possibly have a single cause. The simple cause for the complexities involved in shipping fruit around is the desire of the eaters of the fruit to have it transported from where it is grown into their eager hands. If the fruit can be grown economically [1] next door to the consumer it will be. If it can't, it won't. That's all there is to it. [1] "economically" means at a price the consumer is prepared to pay. -- Peter Duncanson UK |
#356
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 29 May 2003 17:54:01 GMT, Malcolm wrote:
That'll be quite a few points above you then old chum, I'm not the one sitting here whining about how hard done by I am, because I produce crap goods and nobody wants them. You have it back to front. The general public will buy what you call the "crap" goods but will not pay for the "non-crap" goods. Their choice, that doesn't justify the producer using highly toxic substances just because people are gullible enough to let them get away with it. As pointed out by others the substances are not "highly toxic". "Gullible" people are not letting "them get away with it". You are probably aware of what happened when the Iceland Group switched to selling exclusively organic frozen vegetables in their stores. They lost business and switched back to conventionally grown vegetables. This was not the fault of farmers. It was the fault of customers. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/789900.stm quote Wednesday, 14 June, 2000 Iceland takes organic lead Supermarket chain Iceland has bought up nearly 40% of the world's organic vegetable crop to meet growing demand from customers. From October, all frozen vegetables bought at its stores will be completely organic. They will be sold at the same price as average supermarket own-label products. /quote But seven months later: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1130900.stm quote Monday, 22 January, 2001 Organic food sales disappoint Iceland Iceland Group's high-profile bet on organic foods failed to pay off as the company saw its sales slump in the six months to 29 December. In the second half of the year, Iceland Group's like-for-like sales dropped by 0.5%. Sales for north Wales-based Iceland Foods fell by 1.5%, while sales at cash and carry Booker were static compared with last year. Iceland acquired Booker in June 2000. Organic switch The company has attributed the decline in performance mainly to its switch to organic products. "We will continue to promote organic produce on a phased basis rather than a complete basis," said Bill Grimsey, the new chief executive of the group. "I see it as a migration rather than a revolution." He described the company's 100% move into organic foods, particularly vegetables, last September as a "bold but misguided policy". "Customers are not ready to make the jump," he said, adding that the company could not offer both organic and non-organic produce at the same price. /quote -- Peter Duncanson UK |
#357
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
On Thu, 29 May 2003 19:59:11 +0100, Peter Duncanson
wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2003 17:54:01 GMT, Malcolm wrote: That'll be quite a few points above you then old chum, I'm not the one sitting here whining about how hard done by I am, because I produce crap goods and nobody wants them. You have it back to front. The general public will buy what you call the "crap" goods but will not pay for the "non-crap" goods. Their choice, that doesn't justify the producer using highly toxic substances just because people are gullible enough to let them get away with it. As pointed out by others the substances are not "highly toxic". "Gullible" people are not letting "them get away with it". They are, it's the only reason the do get away with it. You are probably aware of what happened when the Iceland Group switched to selling exclusively organic frozen vegetables in their stores. They lost business and switched back to conventionally grown vegetables. Fair play to Iceland for trying, it doesn't absolve the guilty farmer of total guilt for selling us crap.he is just playing on our apathy.. This was not the fault of farmers. It was the fault of customers. What Iceland does or doesn't is between them and their customers It relieves the farmer of no guilt whatsoever, or rather it shouldnt but they'll clutch at any straw. Who else but the nuttiest Dr Evil could think we actually want poisoned food rather then good wholesome food.. Like I said, plying on the customers gullibility. -- So, you dont like reasoned, well thought out, civil debate? I understand. /´¯/) /¯../ /..../ /´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ /'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') \.................'...../ ''...\.......... _.·´ \..............( \.............\.. |
#358
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Malcolm" wrote in message news:5943dd2c8ba77e96b5e5219530fa0635@TeraNews... You are probably aware of what happened when the Iceland Group switched to selling exclusively organic frozen vegetables in their stores. They lost business and switched back to conventionally grown vegetables. Fair play to Iceland for trying, it doesn't absolve the guilty farmer of total guilt for selling us crap.he is just playing on our apathy.. but if the customer does not want organic food why should the farmers grow it??? and the Iceland example shows beyond a doubt that the customer - barring a few which is fine - are not interested in organic The fact that you think that its best does not mean that the rest of the buying population have to agree - they obviously do not So if the customer wishes a different product - I do not see why you have a problem with a producer suppling it This was not the fault of farmers. It was the fault of customers. What Iceland does or doesn't is between them and their customers correct - and if Iceland's customers do not want ot buy organic then Iceland have to find farmers who are not growing organically to supply their customers -- Jill Bowis http://www.poultryscotland.co.uk http://www.henhouses.co.uk http://www.domesticducks.co.uk http://www.poultry-books.co.uk http://www.kintaline.co.uk/cottage |
#359
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
In article 1cabe6d7a11ffdb964d9409ca5e02bd0@TeraNews, Malcolm
wrote: crap goods and nobody wants them. In fact I have a proper job and earn a fortune, more then enough to pay for my choice not to be poisoned by Hello Pete, got a job? Does that mean you can afford to pay that grand you owe the NSPCC? Cheerio, -- http://www.farm-direct.co.uk/ |
#360
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The dangers of weed killers - Glyphostae aka Roundup, the hidden killer.
"Oz" wrote in message
... It's like cars and congestion. "They" shouldn't be allowed on the roads because 'they' cause congestion. "We" should be freely allowed on the roads, of course ... This is getting to be a habit, again I agree with Oz. If it wasn't for all the other buggers motoring would be a pleasure. :-) -- Old Codger e-mail use reply to field |
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