On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 13:44:42 +0100, "Drakanthus"
wrote:


I'm a bit wary what goes into my compost bin now. There are so many
carcinogenic or toxic chemicals used in manufacturing. As the years go by,
more and more chemicals are found to be harmful even in trace quantities.
You just might find out you are adding poison to the soil - as I did. I used
to regularly put waste sawdust into my compost from various jobs involving
pressure treated timber, only to find out later that the active ingredient
is based upon Arsenic. I don't put ANY man made products into my compost
now.

Just of a related note. Strictly speaking all cutting of timber should
be done before the treatment so if the shavings were from a timber
firm then they *in theory* should be clean. The only commercial outlet
in the uk for wood shavings is the pet business and a little
chipboard. Also, if it was pressure treated it may have been from an
organic based treatment rather than CCA (copper chrome arsenic) as
CCA`s are generally dipped.

I have to agree tho that if your in any doubt about the source of the
shavings do NOT put them in.

Some good news on the horizon is that CCA is being removed from use
comercially as the europeans dont like the arsenic. However, they seem
to like using heavy metals instead so untill it all gets nice and
organic (Roof truss manufacturers use organic as the heavy metals
corrode the plates) then only put shavings that have been in a pet bed
on the compost heap.

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Make the best use of your politicians - compost them!

Now now Nick..many urglers worry about rats in their compost heaps.

Janet.

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 08:04:06 GMT, "gogo"
wrote:

Monty Don showed in Gardeners' world that you can use cardboard in the
compost heap and that it even help to aerate it. I think it's a greta way of
recycling cardboard, but I was wondering if any type would do, i.e. is there
any danger of ink toxicity for "glossy" coloured cardboard?

A bit O.T. but I always wondered why we are not supposed to put enveloppes
in the paper recycling containers. The only reason I can think of is the
glue on them, but surely a glossy magazine contains as much as an enveloppe?

Our local council are just starting a trial of garden waste for
composting AND cardboard. I have bought (!) for 30p each, paper sacks
into which I can put any compostable material along with cardboard
which they say can include cereal packets, ready meal boxes and brown
envelopes.
Therafter we can buy 70litre bags of compost for £2.50
Most of my stuff goes to the allotment, but I cut down a shrub today
and took it all to the tip!!!

Pam in Bristol

Pam Moore wrote in
:
Our local council are just starting a trial of garden waste for
composting AND cardboard. I have bought (!) for 30p each, paper sacks
into which I can put any compostable material along with cardboard
which they say can include cereal packets, ready meal boxes and brown
envelopes.

You paid for them?!!

Therafter we can buy 70litre bags of compost for £2.50
Most of my stuff goes to the allotment, but I cut down a shrub today
and took it all to the tip!!!

And yet I can buy 75 litre bags for 2.99 each or 2 for a fiver
All from my local garden centre

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mary Fisher wrote:

Apart from that I'd agree with you 100% - but we're dealing with
politicans
here ...

Make the best use of your politicians - compost them!

I wish ...

Wistful Mary


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Drakanthus" wrote in message
...
A bit O.T. but I always wondered why we are not supposed to put
enveloppes
in the paper recycling containers. The only reason I can think of is
the
glue on them, but surely a glossy magazine contains as much as an
enveloppe?

Many thanks

Gogo

Our council says it's the adhesive - perhaps there are different types.

My partner was a postman for 15yrs in the uk and tells me that the snails
are attracted to the glue used on envelopes, by all accounts its like a drug
to them. Postboxes frequently are inhabited by colonies of snails that eat
the glue off the envelopes, I imagine that this may be one of the reasons
envelopes are not permitted in recycling bins because they'd be attracted to
them.
Another possible reason that glossy/shiny paper is not wanted in council
recycling bins is because it's a much more costly method to remove the china
clay from the paper, this clay creates the gloss and is also water repellent
and must be removed before pulping.

Thats my understanding for what it's worth

Shan

"Drakanthus" wrote in message
...
A bit O.T. but I always wondered why we are not supposed to put
enveloppes
in the paper recycling containers. The only reason I can think of is the
glue on them, but surely a glossy magazine contains as much as an
enveloppe?

Many thanks

Gogo

I'm a bit wary what goes into my compost bin now. There are so many
carcinogenic or toxic chemicals used in manufacturing. As the years go by,
more and more chemicals are found to be harmful even in trace quantities.
You just might find out you are adding poison to the soil - as I did. I
used
to regularly put waste sawdust into my compost from various jobs involving
pressure treated timber, only to find out later that the active ingredient
is based upon Arsenic. I don't put ANY man made products into my compost
now.

--
Drakanthus.


(Spam filter: Include the word VB anywhere in the subject line or emails
will never reach me.)



But isn't it true to say rubarb leaves are poisonous and Green Potatos
contain Oxalyic acid, and various weeds and garden plants contain pretty
nasty chemicals within them, Rue etc, these are all usually placed on the
compost heap.
I confess I do not know how much arsenic garden plants, or veggies might
pick up from the soil, or indeed exactly how much arsenic would be in
treated timber shavings. I do however tend to think that it's not something
I would worry about overly much, simply because the levels are likely to be
so low after all the composting, digging, and growing is done that it's
probably neglible. You'd probably absorb much more heavy metals and
deangerous chemicals from sitting in a traffic jam for 5 minutes than you
could get from the garden veggies.
Also I grow comfrey, specifically to add to waterbutts and compost heaps,
and this is grown because it's roots go down so far that it brings up all
sorts of things from the subsoil, at least that's what I'd been told. Also
partly the reason why green leafy veggies contain lots of calcium.
This is just my opinion of course but then I guess that's partly what this
forums for.

Anyway, In general I think far too much emphasis is placed of reducing
relatively trivial risks when we could be addressing much more serious
problems such as road traffic, and heart disease.

Sorry rant over, such as it was, and no offence meant to anyone.
Duncan

"Druss" wrote in message
...
"Drakanthus" wrote in message
...
A bit O.T. but I always wondered why we are not supposed to put
enveloppes
in the paper recycling containers. The only reason I can think of is
the
glue on them, but surely a glossy magazine contains as much as an
enveloppe?

Many thanks

Gogo

I'm a bit wary what goes into my compost bin now. There are so many
carcinogenic or toxic chemicals used in manufacturing. As the years go
by,
more and more chemicals are found to be harmful even in trace
quantities.
You just might find out you are adding poison to the soil - as I did. I
used
to regularly put waste sawdust into my compost from various jobs
involving
pressure treated timber, only to find out later that the active
ingredient
is based upon Arsenic. I don't put ANY man made products into my compost
now.

--
Drakanthus.


(Spam filter: Include the word VB anywhere in the subject line or emails
will never reach me.)



But isn't it true to say rubarb leaves are poisonous and Green Potatos
contain Oxalyic acid, and various weeds and garden plants contain pretty
nasty chemicals within them, Rue etc, these are all usually placed on the
compost heap.
I confess I do not know how much arsenic garden plants, or veggies might
pick up from the soil, or indeed exactly how much arsenic would be in
treated timber shavings. I do however tend to think that it's not
something
I would worry about overly much, simply because the levels are likely to
be
so low after all the composting, digging, and growing is done that it's
probably neglible. You'd probably absorb much more heavy metals and
deangerous chemicals from sitting in a traffic jam for 5 minutes than you
could get from the garden veggies.
Also I grow comfrey, specifically to add to waterbutts and compost heaps,
and this is grown because it's roots go down so far that it brings up all
sorts of things from the subsoil, at least that's what I'd been told. Also
partly the reason why green leafy veggies contain lots of calcium.
This is just my opinion of course but then I guess that's partly what this
forums for.

Anyway, In general I think far too much emphasis is placed of reducing
relatively trivial risks when we could be addressing much more serious
problems such as road traffic, and heart disease.

Sorry rant over, such as it was, and no offence meant to anyone.
Duncan

I couldn't agree more.

Mary

On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:54:07 +0100, "Druss" wrote:


But isn't it true to say rubarb leaves are poisonous and Green Potatos
contain Oxalyic acid, and various weeds and garden plants contain pretty
nasty chemicals within them, Rue etc, these are all usually placed on the
compost heap.
I confess I do not know how much arsenic garden plants, or veggies might
pick up from the soil, or indeed exactly how much arsenic would be in
treated timber shavings. I do however tend to think that it's not something
I would worry about overly much, simply because the levels are likely to be
so low after all the composting, digging, and growing is done that it's
probably neglible. You'd probably absorb much more heavy metals and
deangerous chemicals from sitting in a traffic jam for 5 minutes than you
could get from the garden veggies.
Also I grow comfrey, specifically to add to waterbutts and compost heaps,
and this is grown because it's roots go down so far that it brings up all
sorts of things from the subsoil, at least that's what I'd been told. Also
partly the reason why green leafy veggies contain lots of calcium.
This is just my opinion of course but then I guess that's partly what this
forums for.

Anyway, In general I think far too much emphasis is placed of reducing
relatively trivial risks when we could be addressing much more serious
problems such as road traffic, and heart disease.

Sorry rant over, such as it was, and no offence meant to anyone.
Duncan


I know where your coming from Duncan, but take it from someone who
deals with these chemicals on a routine basis. Do NOT put treated
sawduct shavings in your compost. Most of the stuff that you would
usually use is CCA and they believe that to have a shelf life once
fixed of 40 years.

Your not allowed to touch it for 14 days after treatment even with
full safety gear and the mixing is completely automatic.

Really makes me wonder why they moaned about creosote so much really!

Some good news on the horizon is that CCA is being removed from use
comercially as the europeans dont like the arsenic. However, they seem
to like using heavy metals instead so untill it all gets nice and
organic (Roof truss manufacturers use organic as the heavy metals
corrode the plates) then only put shavings that have been in a pet bed
on the compost heap.


I may have missed something in this thread along the way, but if we want to
avoid concentrating heavy metals in our compost bins and introducing them into
our food chain, how does using wood shavings that have been used in a pet bed
stop this from happening? Are wood shavings used for pet bedding devoid of any
chemical treatments?

Sorry if this is going back over old ground.

Dave.

On 06 Jun 2003 10:13:37 GMT, DaveDay34 wrote:

Some good news on the horizon is that CCA is being removed from use
comercially as the europeans dont like the arsenic. However, they seem
to like using heavy metals instead so untill it all gets nice and
organic (Roof truss manufacturers use organic as the heavy metals
corrode the plates) then only put shavings that have been in a pet bed
on the compost heap.


I may have missed something in this thread along the way, but if we want
to
avoid concentrating heavy metals in our compost bins and introducing them
into
our food chain, how does using wood shavings that have been used in a pet
bed
stop this from happening? Are wood shavings used for pet bedding devoid
of any
chemical treatments?

Sorry if this is going back over old ground.

No pun intended, I hope.
Tim.

In article ,
says...
On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 11:54:07 +0100, "Druss" wrote:


But isn't it true to say rubarb leaves are poisonous and Green Potatos
contain Oxalyic acid, and various weeds and garden plants contain pretty
nasty chemicals within them, Rue etc, these are all usually placed on the
compost heap.
I confess I do not know how much arsenic garden plants, or veggies might
pick up from the soil, or indeed exactly how much arsenic would be in
treated timber shavings. I do however tend to think that it's not something
I would worry about overly much, simply because the levels are likely to be
so low after all the composting, digging, and growing is done that it's
probably neglible. You'd probably absorb much more heavy metals and
deangerous chemicals from sitting in a traffic jam for 5 minutes than you
could get from the garden veggies.
Also I grow comfrey, specifically to add to waterbutts and compost heaps,
and this is grown because it's roots go down so far that it brings up all
sorts of things from the subsoil, at least that's what I'd been told. Also
partly the reason why green leafy veggies contain lots of calcium.
This is just my opinion of course but then I guess that's partly what this
forums for.

Anyway, In general I think far too much emphasis is placed of reducing
relatively trivial risks when we could be addressing much more serious
problems such as road traffic, and heart disease.

Sorry rant over, such as it was, and no offence meant to anyone.
Duncan


I know where your coming from Duncan, but take it from someone who
deals with these chemicals on a routine basis. Do NOT put treated
sawduct shavings in your compost. Most of the stuff that you would
usually use is CCA and they believe that to have a shelf life once
fixed of 40 years.

Your not allowed to touch it for 14 days after treatment even with
full safety gear and the mixing is completely automatic.

I'll follow up this just to emphasise his point. One of my best friends
is a timber importer with a pressure treatment plant on his site. The
treatment part of his site is a huge cost centre in that it is still not
paid for from the set up costs and the additional safeguards he has in
place. While pressure treatment is underway, no-one is allowed within a
certain range of the tanks. They have to wear gloves, masks and boots
that can't leave the inner perimeter. There is a catchment facility
under the tanks that should never be leaked into by treated timber
leaving the facility and it is usually 50% full of water. That water
must always be disposed of as a hazardous material. The resevoir is made
up of 3 or 4 foot thick non-porous concrete. This is surrounded by a
further 10m of earth. Then comes another layer of non-porous concrete.
To exceed all regulations he's actually put in another layer beyond that
at 12m further out. Should he shut down the treatwood facility he has to
maintain a clean up fee for treating any soil in the inner two rings of
£15,000,000. If any arsenides find their way into the Tyne he gets
tested.

There have been leaks into the inner resevoir and they have all been
caused by staff missing out steps. The fees for cleaning 10000 gallons
of water are usually worth more than the annual wages of the employee
and they haven't all been fired for their idiocy.

Bear in mind all these precautions to ensure that the stuff going into
pressure treated timber doesn't get into the soil.

Still want to compost it and add it to the soil?

Warwick

On 06 Jun 2003 10:13:37 GMT, (DaveDay34) wrote:

Some good news on the horizon is that CCA is being removed from use
comercially as the europeans dont like the arsenic. However, they seem
to like using heavy metals instead so untill it all gets nice and
organic (Roof truss manufacturers use organic as the heavy metals
corrode the plates) then only put shavings that have been in a pet bed
on the compost heap.


I may have missed something in this thread along the way, but if we want to
avoid concentrating heavy metals in our compost bins and introducing them into
our food chain, how does using wood shavings that have been used in a pet bed
stop this from happening? Are wood shavings used for pet bedding devoid of any
chemical treatments?

Sorry if this is going back over old ground.

Dave.

Wood shavings that go to pet bedding suppliers have to ensure that
they do not cut treated timber which could go through the extraction
units into the containers. That could be just one piece of timber and
the whole lot is contaminated.

Therefore, if it`s been on a animal bed then if the animal dies then
dont put it on the compost heap. If the wee beastie lives it`s ok.

On 06 Jun 2003 10:13:37 GMT, (DaveDay34) wrote:

Some good news on the horizon is that CCA is being removed from use
comercially as the europeans dont like the arsenic. However, they seem
to like using heavy metals instead so untill it all gets nice and
organic (Roof truss manufacturers use organic as the heavy metals
corrode the plates) then only put shavings that have been in a pet bed
on the compost heap.


I may have missed something in this thread along the way, but if we want to
avoid concentrating heavy metals in our compost bins and introducing them into
our food chain, how does using wood shavings that have been used in a pet bed
stop this from happening? Are wood shavings used for pet bedding devoid of any
chemical treatments?

Sorry if this is going back over old ground.

Dave.

Wood shavings that go to pet bedding suppliers have to ensure that
they do not cut treated timber which could go through the extraction
units into the containers. That could be just one piece of timber and
the whole lot is contaminated.

Therefore, if it`s been on a animal bed then if the animal dies then
dont put it on the compost heap. If the wee beastie lives it`s ok.