I've just had a quote from a gardener to do my garden and I want to pass it
across you people to check if this is reasonable.

I have a small garden and don't have time to maintain it but I love a well
tended garden. The quote I got was £15 per week (£60 per month) for time as
needed and this includes plants / shrubs. Front garden is about 9 square
meters and back is about 16 square meters. This is a year round fee and
plants will be changed according to season. The current garden has nothing
in there, grass front and back and two borders on each garden with just
earth so this fee includes initial design and installation.

How does this sound? As you can tell, I have no idea so thanks for the info.

Andy

Andy wrote in message ...
I've just had a quote from a gardener to do my garden and I want to
pass it
across you people to check if this is reasonable.

I have a small garden and don't have time to maintain it but I love a
well
tended garden. The quote I got was £15 per week (£60 per month) for
time as
needed and this includes plants / shrubs. Front garden is about 9
square
meters and back is about 16 square meters. This is a year round fee and
plants will be changed according to season. The current garden has
nothing
in there, grass front and back and two borders on each garden with just
earth so this fee includes initial design and installation.

How does this sound? As you can tell, I have no idea so thanks for the
info.


Sounds a incredibly cheap to me, I pay a cleaner £15 a week for three
hours work, and I have to provide all the cleaning materials. Plants are
expensive, and I've just paid about £9 for just three plants for my
garden.

Mike
www.british-naturism.org.uk

I'm a commercial gardener and if this person does a half-way decent job
you've got a bargain. But beware; he/she may know less than you.

PS it isn't worth employing people in the London area and charging them out
at that rate - they would cost me money.

Good luck, I hope it works out.

James

The quote I got was £15 per week (£60 per month) for time as
needed and this includes plants / shrubs.
Andy


Two issues regarding the plats and shrubs:

1) I'd get some idea what sort of plants and shrubs he has in mind - you may
be looking at a garden full of something very cheap and boring - anyone
could fill a garden completely by scattering a packet of forget-me-not seeds
or similar cheap seed about .

2) The other issue might sound like a silly question, but it might be worth
just confirming that you acquire ownership of the plants he supplies. If he
puts a nice selection of expensive plants in your garden make sure that you
are not just leasing them - in the same way that some larger companies lease
office plants from office decoration firms. You don't want him coming back
in the future digging up the plants and taking them away again!

--
Drakanthus.


(Spam filter: Include the word VB anywhere in the subject line or emails
will never reach me.)

I think there are three key phrases in this.....

for time as needed

this would need a bit more definition!

and this includes plants / shrubs.

So would this....

This is a year round fee

How much maintenance do you think your Garden will require from October to
March? Very little I would suggest - you may well get a couple of hours a
week during the spring/summer but you won't in the winter - what does that
make the average hourly rate? Of course the winter is the toughest time of
the year for contract gardeners - not so much work about so nice if you can
get a locked in paying job or 3 I suppose.

The current garden has nothing
in there, grass front and back and two borders on each garden with just
earth so this fee includes initial design and installation.
How does this sound?

This bit sounds too good to be true.....even at the size your garden is it
could still cost a few hundred pounds to plant it out properly - doesn't
have to but could. Nice of someone to shell out for this for you.....

Personally I'm always a bit suspicious of paying "by the job" rather than by
the hour.....as an example, the biggest rip off I have been done for in
recent years was for laying wood flooring - charged by the square metre. At
the end of the job it worked out that the fitter (and there was only one)
cost me about £350 a day....nice work if you can get it.

On the other hand you may feel its worth spending what will work out to be
£780 a year on somone to maintain your garden for you.....that would be
entirely your choice - the crux of the matter would seem to be to find out
what type and quantity of plants will be put in and to get that written into
the agreement.

Hope that helps

yours (in cynical mode !)

I.

"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

At
the end of the job it worked out that the fitter (and there was only one)
cost me about £350 a day....nice work if you can get it.


Ah, but if you had paid by the hour the job would have taken 2 days at £175
per day! (;-)

Its rather like garages, most do not charge actual labour hours for a job
they charge "standard hours" from a trade reference guide. The good garages
make more money by consistently beating the "standard" times. That's how
come they can have multiple jobs running at the same time without keeping
detailed timing records.

To an extent it is the same in Gardens: what you should expect to pay for is
a combination of time and expertise. Ask a novice to prune your fruit trees
or roses and he will take far longer than an expert. It is fair and
reasonable that the expert charges a higher hourly rate.

Whenever employing someone in the garden,that is part of the choice you have
to make.

pk

I've just had a quote from a gardener to do my garden and I want to pass it
across you people to check if this is reasonable.

I have a small garden and don't have time to maintain it but I love a well
tended garden. The quote I got was £15 per week (£60 per month) for time as
needed and this includes plants / shrubs. Front garden is about 9 square
meters and back is about 16 square meters. This is a year round fee and
plants will be changed according to season. The current garden has nothing
in there, grass front and back and two borders on each garden with just
earth so this fee includes initial design and installation.

How does this sound? As you can tell, I have no idea so thanks for the info.

Andy


Andy, there are some issues that you have to look at to know whether you're
getting value for money, and getting the job done to a standard you want for
the right price. As a professional gardener I'd want to answer some important
questions before I decided whether I wanted to get locked in to having this
person doing my garden every week (or at all).

!) How old are they, and are they physically up to doing the job you want done?
You could come off badly if you have a young fit person with no/little
experience, or have an experienced person who isn't physically capable (or who
is just very slow).

2) What plants exactly are you getting, will you own them, and how large will
they be? You don't want inappropriate plants, or plants of an inappropriate
size.

3) Where do you live? Rates for gardening vary wildly regionally, and even
here in London I see prices per hour varying from under £7-50/hour up to over
£20/hour (sometimes plus Vat afterwards).

If I were you I'd get a better idea about what you're getting and compare a few
other gardeners with this one. Ask if he/she's got photos of previous gardens
worked on, references, etc. Sometimes a call to an existing customer is well
worth it in the long run. Personally I have different rates depending on what
service I'm offering my customers. I'm also a soft touch and generally do a
reduced rate for senior citizens/pensioners.

My best advice to you would be to ask about what plants exactly you're going to
get, and see if you can employ this person on a trial basis to start. If they
don't want to do this, then I'd steer well clear.!

All the best, and sorry about the lengthy mail,

Dave.

"Paul Kelly" wrote in
:


"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

At
the end of the job it worked out that the fitter (and there was only
one) cost me about £350 a day....nice work if you can get it.


Ah, but if you had paid by the hour the job would have taken 2 days at
£175 per day! (;-)

Its rather like garages, most do not charge actual labour hours for a
job they charge "standard hours" from a trade reference guide. The
good garages make more money by consistently beating the "standard"
times. That's how come they can have multiple jobs running at the same
time without keeping detailed timing records.

To an extent it is the same in Gardens: what you should expect to pay
for is a combination of time and expertise. Ask a novice to prune your
fruit trees or roses and he will take far longer than an expert. It is
fair and reasonable that the expert charges a higher hourly rate.

Quite.

I don't see a problem with charging a standard monthly rate, but doing
more work when it is needed and less at other times. People find that
sort of bill easier to pay, and quibble less over prices, which saves
everyone's time and money.

Give them an hourly rate and people will waste hours of your time
quibbling over exactly how long it will really take, or insisting you
explain it to them so they can do it instead. By the time you've done
that you need to charge them more to cover the cost of the quibble.

I always price by the job now: it gives a fairer basis for comparison
overall.

I totally agree that the 'provide plants' thing does sound a bit too
vague and needs exploring further, and would add that 15 quid a week
sounds absurdly cheap if they really do come very week, unless the
gardener lives next door, or is already looking after other gardens in
the street.

Victoria
--
Clare Associates Ltd
http://www.clareassoc.co.uk/
01822 835802
--

"Paul Kelly" wrote in
:


"Iain Miller" wrote in message
...

At
the end of the job it worked out that the fitter (and there was only
one) cost me about £350 a day....nice work if you can get it.


Ah, but if you had paid by the hour the job would have taken 2 days at
£175 per day! (;-)

Its rather like garages, most do not charge actual labour hours for a
job they charge "standard hours" from a trade reference guide. The
good garages make more money by consistently beating the "standard"
times. That's how come they can have multiple jobs running at the same
time without keeping detailed timing records.

To an extent it is the same in Gardens: what you should expect to pay
for is a combination of time and expertise. Ask a novice to prune your
fruit trees or roses and he will take far longer than an expert. It is
fair and reasonable that the expert charges a higher hourly rate.

Quite.

I don't see a problem with charging a standard monthly rate, but doing
more work when it is needed and less at other times. People find that
sort of bill easier to pay, and quibble less over prices, which saves
everyone's time and money.

Give them an hourly rate and people will waste hours of your time
quibbling over exactly how long it will really take, or insisting you
explain it to them so they can do it instead. By the time you've done
that you need to charge them more to cover the cost of the quibble.

I always price by the job now: it gives a fairer basis for comparison
overall.

I totally agree that the 'provide plants' thing does sound a bit too
vague and needs exploring further, and would add that 15 quid a week
sounds absurdly cheap if they really do come very week, unless the
gardener lives next door, or is already looking after other gardens in
the street.

Victoria
--
Clare Associates Ltd
http://www.clareassoc.co.uk/
01822 835802
--

At
the end of the job it worked out that the fitter (and there was only
one) cost me about £350 a day....nice work if you can get it.

Ah, but if you had paid by the hour the job would have taken 2 days at
£175 per day! (;-)

No it wouldn't - cos like everyone else who was on site he'd have worked for
his money or I'd have refused to pay him...in point of fact he probably
wasted about a day - he spent half of one afternoon sat in my garden on his
mobile sorting out some domestic issue! Obviously since I wasn't paying him
by the hour I didn't care BUT it actually only makes the thing worse cos if
he'd done 4 solid days work instead of 5 "lazy" days he'd have got the job
finished in 4 days & the effective hourly/daily rate would have been even
higher!

And the point is the firm I used charges about the same as everyone else - I
checked before I used them - and they ALL charge by the square metre - its a
rip off. When you finally translate it to an hourly price & compare it to
what I was paying carpenters, builders, electricians, plumbers etc etc etc
it was/is outrageous.

Its rather like garages, most do not charge actual labour hours for a
job they charge "standard hours" from a trade reference guide. The
good garages make more money by consistently beating the "standard"
times. That's how come they can have multiple jobs running at the same
time without keeping detailed timing records.

Don't get me started on the motor trade (!) Explain to me why it is when I
take my VW and My Wife's Audi to the same (authorised) dealer for servicing
I pay £60 an hour for one and £65 an hour for the other???? That said, when
you run a workshop that's dealing with volume like that its not so daft to
have menu pricing & furthermore, its easy to compare prces with other
dealers so it stays reasonably straight.

To an extent it is the same in Gardens: what you should expect to pay
for is a combination of time and expertise. Ask a novice to prune your
fruit trees or roses and he will take far longer than an expert. It is
fair and reasonable that the expert charges a higher hourly rate.

No issue with that idea....and I'd expect to pay a specialist a higher
hourly rate - I don't have a problem with that and I wouldn't ask a novice
to do a specialist's job....same goes for anything, be it gardening or
whatever

Quite.

I don't see a problem with charging a standard monthly rate, but doing
more work when it is needed and less at other times. People find that
sort of bill easier to pay, and quibble less over prices, which saves
everyone's time and money.

Give them an hourly rate and people will waste hours of your time
quibbling over exactly how long it will really take, or insisting you
explain it to them so they can do it instead. By the time you've done
that you need to charge them more to cover the cost of the quibble.

I always price by the job now: it gives a fairer basis for comparison
overall.

From the supplier side I can quite see why you like it that way - but then
you are in a very different business. I'm quite sure you take some jobs
(where there is a deliverable "product") on a fixed price basis & that makes
sense when you provide a single deliverable but I'd be equally surprised if
you don't have a consultancy day rate.

As a customer I bloody hate fixed pricing & won't entertain it - especially
for any kind of domestic labour. Why? because its far too open to abuse. It
happens round here a lot with Household cleaners - they march in & say
"it'll be £60 a week " (and thats for a fairly simple std 4 bed house) "and
we'll send a team of people". For the first few weeks you get three or four
people & they spend an hour or two & look very busy & are very thorough.

Then its only two people (cos someone is sick - only you never see them
again)....then suddenly you get one person - who may spend a bit longer but
not much & when you compare what you were getting in the first week or two
its nothing like the same. You find you're paying the thick end of £25-£30
an hour for a cleaner who's only skating over the surface. It happened to us
& its happened to 2 or 3 other people I know, all with different firms.

Same goes for Gardening. The original poster may well get someone in who
does a great job for the first month or two but lets be honest, look at the
size of his garden....it won't take an hour a week to tidy it up providing
its kept fairly simple - and bear in mind its the gardener who's designing
it! In the winter I suspect he'll be lucky to see the bloke once a
month.....now what's the hourly rate on that average out at???

I totally agree that the 'provide plants' thing does sound a bit too
vague and needs exploring further,

Well that's something we agree on!

and would add that 15 quid a week
sounds absurdly cheap if they really do come very week, unless the
gardener lives next door, or is already looking after other gardens in
the street.

You say that from a perspective of someone who runs a full trading business
with some overheads and who, no doubt, keeps books - I have a feeling that
the transaction we have been discussing would be strictly "cash only!"
You're right of course it might well be cheap IF they come every week of the
year - but I suspect that won't happen in which case it could look really
rather expensive & that's the whole point. The bloke who's offered this
OBVIOUSLY knows what he's doing as far as the transaction is concerned -
he's clearly doing a fair bit of it - hence the "completeness" of the offer.

I'd either tie him down as to the minimum number of hours labour I'd get
during the year and the exact quantity & type of plants I'd get or I
wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. If he won't have that discussion then
he's got something to hide & I rest my case!

I.

Thanks for all the info. I actually live on the South Coast near Portsmouth,
so hopefully no London prices. The gardener did show me before and after
photos of gardens he's done and he does work full time for a gardening
company but I think he wants to branch out on his own.

The overriding point people made was to check out what plants / flowers he
would provide. I'll do that. I'll also contact some of the references he
provided.

Thanks for the info and hopefully I'll get a nice garden at the end of it!

Andy