Hi all,

I should hopefully be getting an allotment soon but don't
have much time to work it at the moment. With a bit of luck I'll have
a bit more time on my hands starting later this year or early next
year.

What I thought of doing is chopping the weeds down to ground
level, then covering it with a layer of manure followed by old carpet
or black plastic then coming back later and digging it all in.

Does this sound OK? Is there anything else I should be doing? Maybe
add some lime with the manure?

Thanks for any advice.

Andy

What I thought of doing is chopping the weeds down to ground
level, then covering it with a layer of manure followed by old carpet
or black plastic then coming back later and digging it all in.

Digging in carpet or black plastic sounds a lot of work. :-)

But apart from that, sounds ok, although I wouldn't bother digging it in.
But then again, I'm a fan of no-dig anyway.

Does this sound OK? Is there anything else I should be doing? Maybe
add some lime with the manure?

Depends on what your soil is like, and what, if anything, is missing. Get a
soil test kit and find out what it needs.

In the meantime, you've got time to think how you will design your lottie
and what techniques you will use. Eg raised beds and paths, no dig,
'traditional' rows, organic, etc etc.

Best,

- h

Andy wrote in message . ..
Hi all,

I should hopefully be getting an allotment soon but don't
have much time to work it at the moment. With a bit of luck I'll have
a bit more time on my hands starting later this year or early next
year.

What I thought of doing is chopping the weeds down to ground
level, then covering it with a layer of manure followed by old carpet
or black plastic then coming back later and digging it all in.

Does this sound OK? Is there anything else I should be doing? Maybe
add some lime with the manure?

The black plastic approach does work; but rarely quite as well as one
hopes. I'd use the heaviest I could get (old carpet is great), as some
light does come through thinner grades; if you happen to have a lot of
cardboard boxes, opening them out and spreading them underneath will
help.

Make sure the wind can't get under the edges and overlaps; and keep an
eye on it over the winter for damage. The best way to secure the edges
is to dig a little trench all the way round where each sheet will go,
and bury the edges of the plastic.

Muck spreading before laying the plastic or carpet is sound policy;
but I wouldn't put lime on at the same time, as it causes your
nitrogen to escape. Best to muck and lime in alternate years; but a
few months apart is good enough.

I'd also be inclined to take away the weeds you cut down and compost
them separately if there's a chance any of them will seed into your
bed: you'll have quite enough weeding to do anyhow.

Mike.

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:37:00 +0100, "H"
wrote:

What I thought of doing is chopping the weeds down to ground
level, then covering it with a layer of manure followed by old carpet
or black plastic then coming back later and digging it all in.


snip

Does this sound OK? Is there anything else I should be doing? Maybe
add some lime with the manure?

Depends on what your soil is like, and what, if anything, is missing. Get a
soil test kit and find out what it needs.

In the meantime, you've got time to think how you will design your lottie
and what techniques you will use. Eg raised beds and paths, no dig,
'traditional' rows, organic, etc etc.

I don't mind a bit of spade work, so after it's been left a bit I'll
probably dig in loads of manure to make sure it's in reasonable
condition. My sister keeps horses so I've got an advantage there.
After the initial dig I may well investigate the no-dig system;
I don't want too much work...

After that it's organic with companion planting. I had pots full of
tagetes in my old greenhouse and was never bothered by whitefly or
greenfly. I'd rather find the odd insect in my salad than some of
stuff I used to spray on ornamentals.

Ta for the advice,

Andy

On 30 Jul 2003 09:27:02 -0700, (Mike Lyle)
wrote:


I should hopefully be getting an allotment soon but don't
have much time to work it at the moment. With a bit of luck I'll have
a bit more time on my hands starting later this year or early next
year.

What I thought of doing is chopping the weeds down to ground
level, then covering it with a layer of manure followed by old carpet
or black plastic then coming back later and digging it all in.


snip

The black plastic approach does work; but rarely quite as well as one
hopes. I'd use the heaviest I could get (old carpet is great), as some
light does come through thinner grades; if you happen to have a lot of
cardboard boxes, opening them out and spreading them underneath will
help.

Old carpet = free = good. The cardboard idea is excellent. You can
get loads of it from the skips at the back of every PC World if you
ever need any BTW.

Make sure the wind can't get under the edges and overlaps; and keep an
eye on it over the winter for damage. The best way to secure the edges
is to dig a little trench all the way round where each sheet will go,
and bury the edges of the plastic.

Muck spreading before laying the plastic or carpet is sound policy;
but I wouldn't put lime on at the same time, as it causes your
nitrogen to escape. Best to muck and lime in alternate years; but a
few months apart is good enough.

I'd also be inclined to take away the weeds you cut down and compost
them separately if there's a chance any of them will seed into your
bed: you'll have quite enough weeding to do anyhow.

Maybe I could use cardboard as a mulch? If I was to cut it into
strips perhaps it would rot away after a while suppressing the
initial flush of weeds I'd get from an old plot.

Ta muchly,

Andy

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:37:00 +0100, "H"
wrote:

What I thought of doing is chopping the weeds down to ground
level, then covering it with a layer of manure followed by old carpet
or black plastic then coming back later and digging it all in.


snip

Does this sound OK? Is there anything else I should be doing? Maybe
add some lime with the manure?

Depends on what your soil is like, and what, if anything, is missing. Get a
soil test kit and find out what it needs.

In the meantime, you've got time to think how you will design your lottie
and what techniques you will use. Eg raised beds and paths, no dig,
'traditional' rows, organic, etc etc.

I don't mind a bit of spade work, so after it's been left a bit I'll
probably dig in loads of manure to make sure it's in reasonable
condition. My sister keeps horses so I've got an advantage there.
After the initial dig I may well investigate the no-dig system;
I don't want too much work...

After that it's organic with companion planting. I had pots full of
tagetes in my old greenhouse and was never bothered by whitefly or
greenfly. I'd rather find the odd insect in my salad than some of
stuff I used to spray on ornamentals.

Ta for the advice,

Andy

On 30 Jul 2003 09:27:02 -0700, (Mike Lyle)
wrote:


I should hopefully be getting an allotment soon but don't
have much time to work it at the moment. With a bit of luck I'll have
a bit more time on my hands starting later this year or early next
year.

What I thought of doing is chopping the weeds down to ground
level, then covering it with a layer of manure followed by old carpet
or black plastic then coming back later and digging it all in.


snip

The black plastic approach does work; but rarely quite as well as one
hopes. I'd use the heaviest I could get (old carpet is great), as some
light does come through thinner grades; if you happen to have a lot of
cardboard boxes, opening them out and spreading them underneath will
help.

Old carpet = free = good. The cardboard idea is excellent. You can
get loads of it from the skips at the back of every PC World if you
ever need any BTW.

Make sure the wind can't get under the edges and overlaps; and keep an
eye on it over the winter for damage. The best way to secure the edges
is to dig a little trench all the way round where each sheet will go,
and bury the edges of the plastic.

Muck spreading before laying the plastic or carpet is sound policy;
but I wouldn't put lime on at the same time, as it causes your
nitrogen to escape. Best to muck and lime in alternate years; but a
few months apart is good enough.

I'd also be inclined to take away the weeds you cut down and compost
them separately if there's a chance any of them will seed into your
bed: you'll have quite enough weeding to do anyhow.

Maybe I could use cardboard as a mulch? If I was to cut it into
strips perhaps it would rot away after a while suppressing the
initial flush of weeds I'd get from an old plot.

Ta muchly,

Andy

The black plastic approach does work; but rarely quite as well as one
hopes. I'd use the heaviest I could get (old carpet is great),

Be careful with carpet, esp if you want to be organic. The carpet with the
foam backing usually contains lots of nasty, toxic materials that could /
will leach into your soil. Hessian-backed carpet is better.

Cardboard would be good, as would thick sheets of newspaper, esp if you
place the newspaper under the cardboard. Saying this, there are, AFAIK,
nasty chemical in the ink and non-white paper (eg FT)which will get into the
soil, albeit in small quantities.

The cardboard / paper mulches will degrade by themselves, avoiding future
work by you.

Best,

- h

Andy wrote in message . ..
[...]
Maybe I could use cardboard as a mulch? If I was to cut it into
strips perhaps it would rot away after a while suppressing the
initial flush of weeds I'd get from an old plot.

I've tried this: the homeless slugs from three counties converged with
gratitude. It's also difficult to hold down. But, yes, it does rot
away; taking nitrogen with it, of course, as it's essentially wood. I
think it'll be great under old carpet, though.

Mike.

Helen wrote in message
The black plastic approach does work; but rarely quite as well as one
hopes. I'd use the heaviest I could get (old carpet is great),

Be careful with carpet, esp if you want to be organic. The carpet with the
foam backing usually contains lots of nasty, toxic materials that could /
will leach into your soil. Hessian-backed carpet is better.

Not only that, if you don't know where it's come from you don't know what
chemicals are on/in it. Has it been sprayed for fleas? What's it been
cleaned with? There is no way old carpet can be the organic way to start an
allotment unless it's 100% wool with a hessian backing and you know it's
clean of chemicals. Even new carpets are treated with anti-stain now.


Cardboard would be good, as would thick sheets of newspaper, esp if you
place the newspaper under the cardboard. Saying this, there are, AFAIK,
nasty chemical in the ink and non-white paper (eg FT)which will get into
the
soil, albeit in small quantities.

The cardboard / paper mulches will degrade by themselves, avoiding future
work by you.

And take your nitrogen with it.

The mulches you mention will only stop annual weeds from growing and unless
you intend to keep it there for a year or two the perennial weeds will still
be there when you start cultivating.
In other words it's a bit pointless in my opinion.

Strim the weeds off, await regrowth, then spray with Roundup. Wait until
everything is dead (and respray any that isn't). When everything is brown
and dead then dig it all in.
Your allotment will then be clear of weeds, perennial ones too, and you can
start cultivation immediately.
One or two sprays with Roundup will not leave any residual chemicals in the
soil after a few weeks as it breaks down. Certainly, according to everything
I've read, there will be nothing left by the spring when you start planting.

I too started our allotments whilst still at work so I know the time
constraints, don't make life even more difficult for yourself doing
something pointless.

--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.