"anne" wrote in message
...

Culturalenigma wrote in message
...
I don't think you'll get much free info given to be honest. It's your
website afterall. I understand where you are coming from, but it might
be
better to advertise on the site itself for articles and I'm sure that
in
time "fans" of your site will gladly send you articles. I wish you all
the
best.

I've had some hits - I'm not really looking for "free info", just if
anyone
wanted to submit gardening articles.

I will say this though - I love to garden. I love to design gardens. I
like to look at them, weed them, sit in them and read in them. I like
having my hands in the dirt and smelling the earth. It's a miracle that
so
many wonders can come from a well planned or even a poorly thought out
garden. Each one can be a miracle into itself. I consider myself a
gardener.

All that being said, I find that this group (with exceptions, you know
who
you are, you have not been mean towards me) is terribly mean and
uninviting.
I had no idea that I would be made to feel so unwelcome simply for being
a
fan of someone. It isn't even that I got upset that you weren't fans of
who
I was, it was the remarks and comments and assumptions made.

So - I'll head back over to the NG's that I do post at and simply stay
there. Apparently I'm not good enough for this one.

To those of you who were nice to me or who just weren't crappy towards
me
thank you.

Happy gardening, "whatever the weather".

Tracie


Tracie, I feel the same as you re this group. I think there are too many
"know alls" fighting to impress with latin (or is it greek) names and
their
"vast" knowledge. It isn't a friendly group for a gardening newbie I
agree,
or even for a part time gardener. 50% at least of posts end up
argumentative
because the regulars *have* to prove their knowlege and how good they are
and so friendliness goes out of the window.

It's fine for info but not for passing the time of day as it were. I sit
here thinking dare I ask that question, is it too simplistic etc. There
are
other UK based message boards that are more friendly and not so
competitive.

When you asked for articles for your website, I knew you had no chance
from
here - they think they are an elite bunch above you and me.

It doesn't even stop at gardening either, we *have* to post correctly too.
Left right left right all in line! It's quite amusing really how people
can
be so straight laced, closed minded and pedantic too.

I have been participating in this ng for only a few months and my general
impression is totally different from yours.
Yes, there are a small number of participants who behave like you say. They
are, however, a small minority.
I have made a number of friends amongst the urglers and have had very
valuable advice in response to stupid questions asked by me. You should not
be afraid of asking elementary questions. You will soon find out who to
ignore and who to engage with.

As to your objection to playing the game by the rules, there I have no
sympathy for you. In any communal activity, there are rules of good
behaviour. The rules in this ng are identical with those in any other ng,
and they all exist very simply to keep the logical flow of the threads in a
state which would make a thread easy to follow, even if you jump into the
middle of one.

Franz

The message
from (DaveDay34) contains these words:

Am I being very cautious/suspicious if I say I've certain missgivings about
someone asking for advice from amature gardeners when the person
asking for the
advice/articles seems to be connected with Alan Titchmarsh, prolific
writer of
many gardening books/articles, etc? Surely Alan could supply enough said
articles/advice for this web site, or is there more to thios than we've been
told? Maybe we could do with a few more details about this site for which
we're being asked to submit articles/advice?


I'd be amazed if AT and his publicity agent have ever heard of Trai's
website and ambitions for it, or her recruitment drive here. Urglers
have been recruited before as contributors to a website genuinely
fronted by AT. It's hard to imagine that he'd want that particular
muckheap raked over on urg, whose archives in google are so easy to
search.

Janet.

"anne" wrote in message
...

Culturalenigma wrote in message
...

All that being said, I find that this group (with exceptions, you know
who
you are, you have not been mean towards me) is terribly mean and
uninviting.
I had no idea that I would be made to feel so unwelcome simply for being
a
fan of someone.


Tracie, I feel the same as you re this group. I think there are too many
"know alls" fighting to impress with latin (or is it greek) names and
their
"vast" knowledge. - they think they are an elite bunch above you and me.

It doesn't even stop at gardening either, we *have* to post correctly too.
Left right left right all in line! It's quite amusing really how people
can
be so straight laced, closed minded and pedantic too.

What I don't understand is why people who don't like urg hang around
rather than just decide urg isn't for them and go to another group.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Franz Heymann wrote in message
...

"anne" wrote in message
...

Culturalenigma wrote in message
...
I don't think you'll get much free info given to be honest. It's
your
website afterall. I understand where you are coming from, but it
might
be
better to advertise on the site itself for articles and I'm sure
that
in
time "fans" of your site will gladly send you articles. I wish you
all
the
best.

I've had some hits - I'm not really looking for "free info", just if
anyone
wanted to submit gardening articles.

I will say this though - I love to garden. I love to design gardens.
I
like to look at them, weed them, sit in them and read in them. I like
having my hands in the dirt and smelling the earth. It's a miracle
that
so
many wonders can come from a well planned or even a poorly thought out
garden. Each one can be a miracle into itself. I consider myself a
gardener.

All that being said, I find that this group (with exceptions, you know
who
you are, you have not been mean towards me) is terribly mean and
uninviting.
I had no idea that I would be made to feel so unwelcome simply for
being
a
fan of someone. It isn't even that I got upset that you weren't fans
of
who
I was, it was the remarks and comments and assumptions made.

So - I'll head back over to the NG's that I do post at and simply stay
there. Apparently I'm not good enough for this one.

To those of you who were nice to me or who just weren't crappy towards
me
thank you.

Happy gardening, "whatever the weather".

Tracie


Tracie, I feel the same as you re this group. I think there are too many
"know alls" fighting to impress with latin (or is it greek) names and
their
"vast" knowledge. It isn't a friendly group for a gardening newbie I
agree,
or even for a part time gardener. 50% at least of posts end up
argumentative
because the regulars *have* to prove their knowlege and how good they
are
and so friendliness goes out of the window.

It's fine for info but not for passing the time of day as it were. I sit
here thinking dare I ask that question, is it too simplistic etc. There
are
other UK based message boards that are more friendly and not so
competitive.

When you asked for articles for your website, I knew you had no chance
from
here - they think they are an elite bunch above you and me.

It doesn't even stop at gardening either, we *have* to post correctly
too.
Left right left right all in line! It's quite amusing really how people
can
be so straight laced, closed minded and pedantic too.

I have been participating in this ng for only a few months and my general
impression is totally different from yours.
Yes, there are a small number of participants who behave like you say.
They
are, however, a small minority.
I have made a number of friends amongst the urglers and have had very
valuable advice in response to stupid questions asked by me. You should
not
be afraid of asking elementary questions. You will soon find out who to
ignore and who to engage with.

As to your objection to playing the game by the rules, there I have no
sympathy for you. In any communal activity, there are rules of good
behaviour. The rules in this ng are identical with those in any other ng,
and they all exist very simply to keep the logical flow of the threads in
a
state which would make a thread easy to follow, even if you jump into the
middle of one.

Franz



I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening subject. If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear. I think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely. I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from eachother - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you have a
degree in.

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right rude in
some cases.

Kay Easton wrote in message
...
"anne" wrote in message
...

Culturalenigma wrote in message
...

All that being said, I find that this group (with exceptions, you
know
who
you are, you have not been mean towards me) is terribly mean and
uninviting.
I had no idea that I would be made to feel so unwelcome simply for
being
a
fan of someone.


Tracie, I feel the same as you re this group. I think there are too
many
"know alls" fighting to impress with latin (or is it greek) names and
their
"vast" knowledge. - they think they are an elite bunch above you and
me.

It doesn't even stop at gardening either, we *have* to post correctly
too.
Left right left right all in line! It's quite amusing really how people
can
be so straight laced, closed minded and pedantic too.

What I don't understand is why people who don't like urg hang around
rather than just decide urg isn't for them and go to another group.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm


I hang around because you are infact a very knowledgeable bunch. However,
that doesn't make you poilte, approachable or friendly which is a shame.

In article , anne
writes


I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening subject. If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear. I think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely.

We're not an advice panel! Nobody is obliged to answer your questions.
If I don't answer your questions, it's because I don't know the answer,
or I know the answer but have answered the same question so many times
I'm bored of it and think someone else can have a go, or because I'm
reading quickly and don't have the time or inclination to answer. I
certainly don't pick out questions from an 'in group'.

I've been on here longer than most posters, and post quite heavily, and
yet some of my questions don't get answered.

I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from eachother - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you have a
degree in.

well, I'm sorry it alienates you, but urg does have some knowledgeable
people, and we can all learn from them. The people who are answering the
questions have to get some benefit from being on urg (we all can choose
whether we stay or not) and certainly my reason for staying and
answering questions is because I learn so much from urg.

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right rude in
some cases.

And so can the way in which some people announce that they do not wish
to follow the rules!

Sometimes it seems as if the regulars ar not allowed to be rude to
newbies, but newbies can be as rude and offensive as they like to
regulars.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

in article , anne at
wrote on 9/9/03 10:34 pm:
snip
I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening subject. If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear. I think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely. I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from eachother - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you have a
degree in.

Some people here have horticultural qualis, most don't, I'd guess. I
suppose I've been around this group for 6 or 7 years and on the whole, it's
a very friendly place. Of course, like all other groups, either in real
life or in cyber space, the reception you get probably depends on your
initial manner and approach.
Nobody here is paid to help you or obliged to do so. It's a *discussion*
group, if you prefer that description. If you don't get an answer, it may
be because nobody knows the answer - had you thought of that? I've asked
questions and received no answer and just assumed, as seems reasonable, that
nobody had one. In my turn, I've tried to answer a few when I can. To
assume that you are being ignored deliberately seems to be a bit arrogant,
IMO. Why would anyone bother to do that to you or indeed, to anyone?

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right rude in
some cases.


As can some people who appear to think the group is for their personal
convenience.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:49:23 +0100, "anne" wrote:


Kay Easton wrote in message
...

What I don't understand is why people who don't like urg hang around
rather than just decide urg isn't for them and go to another group.
--


I hang around because you are infact a very knowledgeable bunch. However,
that doesn't make you poilte, approachable or friendly which is a shame.


You think this is bad? You should try soc.genealogy.britain !

Liz

In article , anne
writes


I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening subject. If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear. I think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely.

We're not an advice panel! Nobody is obliged to answer your questions.
If I don't answer your questions, it's because I don't know the answer,
or I know the answer but have answered the same question so many times
I'm bored of it and think someone else can have a go, or because I'm
reading quickly and don't have the time or inclination to answer. I
certainly don't pick out questions from an 'in group'.

I've been on here longer than most posters, and post quite heavily, and
yet some of my questions don't get answered.

I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from eachother - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you have a
degree in.

well, I'm sorry it alienates you, but urg does have some knowledgeable
people, and we can all learn from them. The people who are answering the
questions have to get some benefit from being on urg (we all can choose
whether we stay or not) and certainly my reason for staying and
answering questions is because I learn so much from urg.

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right rude in
some cases.

And so can the way in which some people announce that they do not wish
to follow the rules!

Sometimes it seems as if the regulars ar not allowed to be rude to
newbies, but newbies can be as rude and offensive as they like to
regulars.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

in article , anne at
wrote on 9/9/03 10:34 pm:
snip
I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening subject. If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear. I think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely. I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from eachother - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you have a
degree in.

Some people here have horticultural qualis, most don't, I'd guess. I
suppose I've been around this group for 6 or 7 years and on the whole, it's
a very friendly place. Of course, like all other groups, either in real
life or in cyber space, the reception you get probably depends on your
initial manner and approach.
Nobody here is paid to help you or obliged to do so. It's a *discussion*
group, if you prefer that description. If you don't get an answer, it may
be because nobody knows the answer - had you thought of that? I've asked
questions and received no answer and just assumed, as seems reasonable, that
nobody had one. In my turn, I've tried to answer a few when I can. To
assume that you are being ignored deliberately seems to be a bit arrogant,
IMO. Why would anyone bother to do that to you or indeed, to anyone?

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right rude in
some cases.


As can some people who appear to think the group is for their personal
convenience.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:49:23 +0100, "anne" wrote:


Kay Easton wrote in message
...

What I don't understand is why people who don't like urg hang around
rather than just decide urg isn't for them and go to another group.
--


I hang around because you are infact a very knowledgeable bunch. However,
that doesn't make you poilte, approachable or friendly which is a shame.


You think this is bad? You should try soc.genealogy.britain !

Liz

Sacha wrote in message
...
in article , anne at
wrote on 9/9/03 10:34 pm:
snip
I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You
are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening subject.
If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear. I
think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if
that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely. I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from eachother - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you have
a
degree in.

Some people here have horticultural qualis, most don't, I'd guess. I
suppose I've been around this group for 6 or 7 years and on the whole,
it's
a very friendly place. Of course, like all other groups, either in real
life or in cyber space, the reception you get probably depends on your
initial manner and approach.
Nobody here is paid to help you or obliged to do so. It's a *discussion*
group, if you prefer that description. If you don't get an answer, it may
be because nobody knows the answer - had you thought of that? I've asked
questions and received no answer and just assumed, as seems reasonable,
that
nobody had one. In my turn, I've tried to answer a few when I can. To
assume that you are being ignored deliberately seems to be a bit arrogant,
IMO. Why would anyone bother to do that to you or indeed, to anyone?

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of
the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right
rude in
some cases.


As can some people who appear to think the group is for their personal
convenience.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)


Both you and Kay seem to think I expect an answer immediately and am p**d
off if I haven't got one. This is not the case. I do realise that this is a
busy newsgroup and questions get missed, that was not the aim of my post. I
do try and answer questions myself if I can, but as I'm a newbie to
gardening this is very rare unfortunately and so it appears that all I do is
ask questions. I'm afraid I can't join debates like horsetails and
marestails for example. I guess I feel like a rusty allegro in a car park
full of mercs lol ;-) (I'm sure some of those mercs are dodgy though) and am
saying please be patient with me and other newbies.

I think you will find that if somebody is told politely to post in the
correct manner, you will get a polite response back.

Sacha wrote in message
...
in article , anne at
wrote on 9/9/03 10:34 pm:
snip
I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You
are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening subject.
If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear. I
think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if
that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely. I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from eachother - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you have
a
degree in.

Some people here have horticultural qualis, most don't, I'd guess. I
suppose I've been around this group for 6 or 7 years and on the whole,
it's
a very friendly place. Of course, like all other groups, either in real
life or in cyber space, the reception you get probably depends on your
initial manner and approach.
Nobody here is paid to help you or obliged to do so. It's a *discussion*
group, if you prefer that description. If you don't get an answer, it may
be because nobody knows the answer - had you thought of that? I've asked
questions and received no answer and just assumed, as seems reasonable,
that
nobody had one. In my turn, I've tried to answer a few when I can. To
assume that you are being ignored deliberately seems to be a bit arrogant,
IMO. Why would anyone bother to do that to you or indeed, to anyone?

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of
the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right
rude in
some cases.


As can some people who appear to think the group is for their personal
convenience.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)


Both you and Kay seem to think I expect an answer immediately and am p**d
off if I haven't got one. This is not the case. I do realise that this is a
busy newsgroup and questions get missed, that was not the aim of my post. I
do try and answer questions myself if I can, but as I'm a newbie to
gardening this is very rare unfortunately and so it appears that all I do is
ask questions. I'm afraid I can't join debates like horsetails and
marestails for example. I guess I feel like a rusty allegro in a car park
full of mercs lol ;-) (I'm sure some of those mercs are dodgy though) and am
saying please be patient with me and other newbies.

I think you will find that if somebody is told politely to post in the
correct manner, you will get a polite response back.

in article , anne at
wrote on 9/9/03 11:40 pm:


Sacha wrote in message
...
in article , anne at
wrote on 9/9/03 10:34 pm:
snip
I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You
are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening subject.
If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear. I
think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if
that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely. I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from eachother - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you have
a
degree in.

Some people here have horticultural qualis, most don't, I'd guess. I
suppose I've been around this group for 6 or 7 years and on the whole,
it's
a very friendly place. Of course, like all other groups, either in real
life or in cyber space, the reception you get probably depends on your
initial manner and approach.
Nobody here is paid to help you or obliged to do so. It's a *discussion*
group, if you prefer that description. If you don't get an answer, it may
be because nobody knows the answer - had you thought of that? I've asked
questions and received no answer and just assumed, as seems reasonable,
that
nobody had one. In my turn, I've tried to answer a few when I can. To
assume that you are being ignored deliberately seems to be a bit arrogant,
IMO. Why would anyone bother to do that to you or indeed, to anyone?

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of
the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right
rude in
some cases.


As can some people who appear to think the group is for their personal
convenience.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)


Both you and Kay seem to think I expect an answer immediately and am p**d
off if I haven't got one. This is not the case. I do realise that this is a
busy newsgroup and questions get missed, that was not the aim of my post. I
do try and answer questions myself if I can, but as I'm a newbie to
gardening this is very rare unfortunately and so it appears that all I do is
ask questions. I'm afraid I can't join debates like horsetails and
marestails for example. I guess I feel like a rusty allegro in a car park
full of mercs lol ;-) (I'm sure some of those mercs are dodgy though) and am
saying please be patient with me and other newbies.

I think you will find that if somebody is told politely to post in the
correct manner, you will get a polite response back.


Then may I politely suggest to you that this is a genuinely friendly and
informative group, as I've found to my own benefit. But posting in reply to
others suggesting there is some form of elitism here and that people who use
Latin names are somehow showing off, isn't going to help your start on the
group.
Please think of this - using Latin names for plants makes it easier for all
of us to help each other because it's a universal language. Whatever a
plant is called in Northumbria, it might not be called here in Devon. For
example, the weed (for which I do not know the Latin name) which I know as
goosegrass, is known to others as cleavers and/or stickie willie! Using
Latin names isn't some form of snobbery or exclusion process, it's more
helpful in the long term. That said, you don't have to know them to post
here but you might find that you'll start to learn them and that by doing
so, you'll expand what you came here for - gardening knowledge.
Relax. Most of us really do like to help where we can.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove the 'x' to email me)

On Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:49:23 +0100, "anne"
wrote:


Kay Easton wrote in message
...
"anne" wrote in message
...

Culturalenigma wrote in message
...

All that being said, I find that this group (with exceptions, you
know
who
you are, you have not been mean towards me) is terribly mean and
uninviting.
I had no idea that I would be made to feel so unwelcome simply for
being
a
fan of someone.


Tracie, I feel the same as you re this group. I think there are too
many
"know alls" fighting to impress with latin (or is it greek) names and
their
"vast" knowledge. - they think they are an elite bunch above you and
me.

It doesn't even stop at gardening either, we *have* to post correctly
too.
Left right left right all in line! It's quite amusing really how people
can
be so straight laced, closed minded and pedantic too.

What I don't understand is why people who don't like urg hang around
rather than just decide urg isn't for them and go to another group.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm


I hang around because you are infact a very knowledgeable bunch. However,
that doesn't make you poilte, approachable or friendly which is a shame.

I think there is an average cross section of the internet population
posting here. Most are approachable and friendly. Try to ignore the
rude ones :-)

--
Martin