Kay Easton wrote in news:RrhF6BPoVkX
:

What I don't understand is why people who don't like urg hang around
rather than just decide urg isn't for them and go to another group.

urg-o-holism?

Curate's egg syndrome?

People here are sometimes rude, nasty or argumentative.
This pretty much equates to my experience of people in general. In fact, I
can't think of any forum or situation where people are always nice.

It's horrible if Anne thinks she can't pile in and talk about something
just because she doesn't know much about it. I talk about things I know
very little about all the time. If you don't, you never know if the other
participants really know their stuff, or if they are making it up!

If a poster particularly annoys you, you can always imagine them with
really bad piles, or even that 'killfile' is literally accurate...

:-p

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

in article , Victoria Clare
at wrote on 10/9/03 11:14 am:

Kay Easton wrote in news:RrhF6BPoVkX
:

What I don't understand is why people who don't like urg hang around
rather than just decide urg isn't for them and go to another group.

urg-o-holism?

Curate's egg syndrome?

People here are sometimes rude, nasty or argumentative.
This pretty much equates to my experience of people in general. In fact, I
can't think of any forum or situation where people are always nice.

It's horrible if Anne thinks she can't pile in and talk about something
just because she doesn't know much about it. I talk about things I know
very little about all the time. If you don't, you never know if the other
participants really know their stuff, or if they are making it up!

If a poster particularly annoys you, you can always imagine them with
really bad piles, or even that 'killfile' is literally accurate...

:-p

Victoria


I don't think not being a knowledgeable gardener has ever been a bar to
posting on urg - never, ever, in fact. I do think we've had posters who are
new to the group who appear to think it has to snap to quickly and answer
THEM immediately (I'm not suggesting this is Anne, BTW) and that makes some
of the 'older' posters a bit tetchy.
But my experience of urg is a fairly long one and I think that on the whole,
people are friendly, helpful and informative. But like people everywhere,
if someone is rude or unpleasant, impatient or selfish, they'll get the cold
shoulder they would get in any other circumstances.
I've met quite a few of the longer term posters in my time and have liked
all of them. One of these days - but not this year - I hope we can host
another meet here and make new urg friends, too.
And as more than one of us has said one here on occasion - if you don't know
the answer, there are no stupid questions!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove the 'x' to email me)

in article , Victoria Clare
at wrote on 10/9/03 11:14 am:

Kay Easton wrote in news:RrhF6BPoVkX
:

What I don't understand is why people who don't like urg hang around
rather than just decide urg isn't for them and go to another group.

urg-o-holism?

Curate's egg syndrome?

People here are sometimes rude, nasty or argumentative.
This pretty much equates to my experience of people in general. In fact, I
can't think of any forum or situation where people are always nice.

It's horrible if Anne thinks she can't pile in and talk about something
just because she doesn't know much about it. I talk about things I know
very little about all the time. If you don't, you never know if the other
participants really know their stuff, or if they are making it up!

If a poster particularly annoys you, you can always imagine them with
really bad piles, or even that 'killfile' is literally accurate...

:-p

Victoria


I don't think not being a knowledgeable gardener has ever been a bar to
posting on urg - never, ever, in fact. I do think we've had posters who are
new to the group who appear to think it has to snap to quickly and answer
THEM immediately (I'm not suggesting this is Anne, BTW) and that makes some
of the 'older' posters a bit tetchy.
But my experience of urg is a fairly long one and I think that on the whole,
people are friendly, helpful and informative. But like people everywhere,
if someone is rude or unpleasant, impatient or selfish, they'll get the cold
shoulder they would get in any other circumstances.
I've met quite a few of the longer term posters in my time and have liked
all of them. One of these days - but not this year - I hope we can host
another meet here and make new urg friends, too.
And as more than one of us has said one here on occasion - if you don't know
the answer, there are no stupid questions!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove the 'x' to email me)

Sacha wrote in news:BB84C812.757F%
:

I don't think not being a knowledgeable gardener has ever been a bar to
posting on urg - never, ever, in fact.

Absolutely - I would not be here if that were the case! I've been here I
think as long as Sacha (maybe even before? I can't remember now, but I do
remember her amazing transformation from a dachshund!)

Frankly my gardening knowledge is still pretty patchy, I always have to
look up latin names, and I only use them if the common name looks
particularly likely to cause bafflement and confusion.

This says nothing about my learning abilities ;-) but lots about the
tolerance of other urglers.

Victoria

--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

Victoria Clare wrote in message
.207...
Sacha wrote in news:BB84C812.757F%
:

I don't think not being a knowledgeable gardener has ever been a bar to
posting on urg - never, ever, in fact.

Absolutely - I would not be here if that were the case! I've been here I
think as long as Sacha (maybe even before? I can't remember now, but I do
remember her amazing transformation from a dachshund!)

Frankly my gardening knowledge is still pretty patchy, I always have to
look up latin names, and I only use them if the common name looks
particularly likely to cause bafflement and confusion.

This says nothing about my learning abilities ;-) but lots about the
tolerance of other urglers.


My Convallaria majalis and Lupinus were eaten by slugs. The Nepeta mussinii
was ignored by the cat but the Helianthus annuus was eaten by the cat. My
Dianthus and Viola x wittrockiana just died quickly. Surprisingly my
Buddleja davidii, Chlorophytum comosum and Paeonia did rather well. The
Bellis Perennis and Convolvulus are the best specimens in my garden though.

How's that? :-)



Victoria

--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

"anne" wrote in
:


Victoria Clare wrote in message
.207...

Frankly my gardening knowledge is still pretty patchy, I always have
to look up latin names, and I only use them if the common name looks
particularly likely to cause bafflement and confusion.


My Convallaria majalis and Lupinus were eaten by slugs. The Nepeta
mussinii was ignored by the cat but the Helianthus annuus was eaten by
the cat. My Dianthus and Viola x wittrockiana just died quickly.
Surprisingly my Buddleja davidii, Chlorophytum comosum and Paeonia did
rather well. The Bellis Perennis and Convolvulus are the best
specimens in my garden though.


I shall have to look up some of those, but the thing about the daisies and
the convolvulus definitely sounds like my garden... :-(

Victoria

--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

"anne" wrote in message
...

Sacha wrote in message
...
in article , anne at

wrote on 9/9/03 10:34 pm:
snip
I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You
are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening
subject.
If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear. I
think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if
that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely. I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from eachother - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which
alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you
have
a
degree in.

Some people here have horticultural qualis, most don't, I'd guess. I
suppose I've been around this group for 6 or 7 years and on the whole,
it's
a very friendly place. Of course, like all other groups, either in real
life or in cyber space, the reception you get probably depends on your
initial manner and approach.
Nobody here is paid to help you or obliged to do so. It's a *discussion*
group, if you prefer that description. If you don't get an answer, it
may
be because nobody knows the answer - had you thought of that? I've
asked
questions and received no answer and just assumed, as seems reasonable,
that
nobody had one. In my turn, I've tried to answer a few when I can. To
assume that you are being ignored deliberately seems to be a bit
arrogant,
IMO. Why would anyone bother to do that to you or indeed, to anyone?

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of
the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right
rude in
some cases.


As can some people who appear to think the group is for their personal
convenience.
--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)


Both you and Kay seem to think I expect an answer immediately and am p**d
off if I haven't got one. This is not the case. I do realise that this is
a
busy newsgroup and questions get missed, that was not the aim of my post.
I
do try and answer questions myself if I can, but as I'm a newbie to
gardening this is very rare unfortunately and so it appears that all I do
is
ask questions. I'm afraid I can't join debates like horsetails and
marestails for example. I guess I feel like a rusty allegro in a car park
full of mercs lol ;-) (I'm sure some of those mercs are dodgy though) and
am
saying please be patient with me and other newbies.

I think you will find that if somebody is told politely to post in the
correct manner, you will get a polite response back.

For Pete's sake, set fire to that silly inferiority complex.

Franz

"anne" wrote in message
...

Franz Heymann wrote in message
...

"anne" wrote in message
...

Culturalenigma wrote in message
...
I don't think you'll get much free info given to be honest. It's
your
website afterall. I understand where you are coming from, but it
might
be
better to advertise on the site itself for articles and I'm sure
that
in
time "fans" of your site will gladly send you articles. I wish you
all
the
best.

I've had some hits - I'm not really looking for "free info", just if
anyone
wanted to submit gardening articles.

I will say this though - I love to garden. I love to design
gardens.
I
like to look at them, weed them, sit in them and read in them. I
like
having my hands in the dirt and smelling the earth. It's a miracle
that
so
many wonders can come from a well planned or even a poorly thought
out
garden. Each one can be a miracle into itself. I consider myself a
gardener.

All that being said, I find that this group (with exceptions, you
know
who
you are, you have not been mean towards me) is terribly mean and
uninviting.
I had no idea that I would be made to feel so unwelcome simply for
being
a
fan of someone. It isn't even that I got upset that you weren't
fans
of
who
I was, it was the remarks and comments and assumptions made.

So - I'll head back over to the NG's that I do post at and simply
stay
there. Apparently I'm not good enough for this one.

To those of you who were nice to me or who just weren't crappy
towards
me
thank you.

Happy gardening, "whatever the weather".

Tracie


Tracie, I feel the same as you re this group. I think there are too
many
"know alls" fighting to impress with latin (or is it greek) names and
their
"vast" knowledge. It isn't a friendly group for a gardening newbie I
agree,
or even for a part time gardener. 50% at least of posts end up
argumentative
because the regulars *have* to prove their knowlege and how good they
are
and so friendliness goes out of the window.

It's fine for info but not for passing the time of day as it were. I
sit
here thinking dare I ask that question, is it too simplistic etc.
There
are
other UK based message boards that are more friendly and not so
competitive.

When you asked for articles for your website, I knew you had no chance
from
here - they think they are an elite bunch above you and me.

It doesn't even stop at gardening either, we *have* to post correctly
too.
Left right left right all in line! It's quite amusing really how
people
can
be so straight laced, closed minded and pedantic too.

I have been participating in this ng for only a few months and my
general
impression is totally different from yours.
Yes, there are a small number of participants who behave like you say.
They
are, however, a small minority.
I have made a number of friends amongst the urglers and have had very
valuable advice in response to stupid questions asked by me. You should
not
be afraid of asking elementary questions. You will soon find out who to
ignore and who to engage with.

As to your objection to playing the game by the rules, there I have no
sympathy for you. In any communal activity, there are rules of good
behaviour. The rules in this ng are identical with those in any other
ng,
and they all exist very simply to keep the logical flow of the threads
in
a
state which would make a thread easy to follow, even if you jump into
the
middle of one.

Franz



I'm still not convinced Franz, I think your face has to fit here. You are
without doubt far more knowledgeable than I am re the gardening subject.

Not necessarily.

If
you notice, most people turn up with a question and then disappear.

That is how it is in *all* the ng's in which I have participated. So what?

I think
some of those disappear because the conversation is too technical (if
that's
the right word). I've asked a few questions and some have been ignored
completely.

Has it occured to you that your questions might have stymied the urglers?

I feel as if the regs here are really only interested in
questions from each other - then out comes the knowledge and very deep
discussions etc (then competition on who knows the most) which alienates
those who don't have a degree in horticulture or whatever it is you have a
degree in.

For Pete's sake, throw that frightful inferiority complex which seems to be
weighing you down.
If folk speak with words you don't understand, why not ask what they mean?
I have done that several times ans have invariably been enlightened.

I agree with you that it's only polite to try and follow the rules of the
group, but they way the rules are implimented here can be down right rude
in
some cases.

Yes. Every group of people has its black sheep. Urg is no exception. So
what? I'll tell you something: The ratio between the civilised and
uncivilised members is vastly better in Urg than in two or three other ng's
I know.

Go on, ask your questions and see what gives.

Franz
Franz

in article , anne at
wrote on 10/9/03 1:48 pm:


Victoria Clare wrote in message
.207...
Sacha wrote in news:BB84C812.757F%
:

I don't think not being a knowledgeable gardener has ever been a bar to
posting on urg - never, ever, in fact.

Absolutely - I would not be here if that were the case! I've been here I
think as long as Sacha (maybe even before? I can't remember now, but I do
remember her amazing transformation from a dachshund!)

Frankly my gardening knowledge is still pretty patchy, I always have to
look up latin names, and I only use them if the common name looks
particularly likely to cause bafflement and confusion.

This says nothing about my learning abilities ;-) but lots about the
tolerance of other urglers.


My Convallaria majalis and Lupinus were eaten by slugs. The Nepeta mussinii
was ignored by the cat but the Helianthus annuus was eaten by the cat. My
Dianthus and Viola x wittrockiana just died quickly. Surprisingly my
Buddleja davidii, Chlorophytum comosum and Paeonia did rather well. The
Bellis Perennis and Convolvulus are the best specimens in my garden though.

How's that? :-)


Brilliant! You've got the badge. ;-)

--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

In article , anne
writes



My Convallaria majalis

That's strange - mine are always OK. Well, I suppose they may get holes
in the leaves - I never really look - but the flower heads are always
untouched, and if asked, they're one of the things I would have said
were OK against slugs. Interesting that your experience is different.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , anne
writes

I think you will find that if somebody is told politely to post in the
correct manner, you will get a polite response back.

Look back in the urg archives on google and, sadly, you will find that
frequently the reverse is true (
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

"anne" wrote in message ...
[...]
50% at least of posts end up argumentative
because the regulars *have* to prove their knowlege and how good they are
and so friendliness goes out of the window.

But some people *love* a frank exchange of views: to me, that's what
friends are for. I wouldn't seriously argue with anybody I didn't feel
friendly to. Nobody has to join in one of the more excitable exchanges
if they'd rather not, and certainly nobody who does join in seems to
feel put down by it.

It's fine for info but not for passing the time of day as it were. I sit
here thinking dare I ask that question, is it too simplistic etc. [...]

That's a shame: lots of the questions here are from beginners, and
they usually get answered, and I reckon they're usually answered in a
straightforward way. You get some more complicated answers, but that's
usually because whoever it is is trying to be as helpful as possible.
It's hard to know where to stop if it's something you know a fair bit
about.

It doesn't even stop at gardening either, we *have* to post correctly too.
Left right left right all in line! It's quite amusing really how people can
be so straight laced, closed minded and pedantic too.

What, you mean about top-posting versus bottom-posting? Yes, some of
us do get confused by top-posting: it isn't really about being
closed-minded, just that if everybody bottom-posts I find it easier to
see what's going on. I think it's the agreed way on most Usenet
groups, so we've come to expect it and we know where we are with it.

Don't be put off: people are here because they're interested. Showing
off isn't realistic on Usenet, not for the mentally healthy anyhow,
because nobody knows who anybody really is. For example, I'm really a
shapely natural-blonde up-and-coming porn starlet from County Mayo who
gets all her gardening info out of the Encyclopedia Britannica: real
gardening would wreck my nails, darling! I pretend to be this bloke so
the other girls will never find out.

Mike.

On 10 Sep 2003 12:40:50 -0700, (Mike Lyle)
wrote:

"anne" wrote in message ...
[...]
50% at least of posts end up argumentative
because the regulars *have* to prove their knowlege and how good they are
and so friendliness goes out of the window.

But some people *love* a frank exchange of views: to me, that's what
friends are for. I wouldn't seriously argue with anybody I didn't feel
friendly to. Nobody has to join in one of the more excitable exchanges
if they'd rather not, and certainly nobody who does join in seems to
feel put down by it.

It's fine for info but not for passing the time of day as it were. I sit
here thinking dare I ask that question, is it too simplistic etc. [...]

That's a shame: lots of the questions here are from beginners, and
they usually get answered, and I reckon they're usually answered in a
straightforward way. You get some more complicated answers, but that's
usually because whoever it is is trying to be as helpful as possible.
It's hard to know where to stop if it's something you know a fair bit
about.

It doesn't even stop at gardening either, we *have* to post correctly too.
Left right left right all in line! It's quite amusing really how people can
be so straight laced, closed minded and pedantic too.

What, you mean about top-posting versus bottom-posting? Yes, some of
us do get confused by top-posting: it isn't really about being
closed-minded, just that if everybody bottom-posts I find it easier to
see what's going on. I think it's the agreed way on most Usenet
groups, so we've come to expect it and we know where we are with it.

Don't be put off: people are here because they're interested. Showing
off isn't realistic on Usenet, not for the mentally healthy anyhow,
because nobody knows who anybody really is. For example, I'm really a
shapely natural-blonde up-and-coming porn starlet from County Mayo who
gets all her gardening info out of the Encyclopedia Britannica: real
gardening would wreck my nails, darling! I pretend to be this bloke so
the other girls will never find out.

Mike.


You sound like a big girls tit anyway, so in this case you are quite
believable.

The message
from Victoria Clare contains these words:


It's horrible if Anne thinks she can't pile in and talk about something
just because she doesn't know much about it.

It would be if it were true, but it's perfectly clear from her
performance in this thread that Anne has absolutely no such inhibitions
or modest qualms. Her main contribution to the group seems to be sniping
at the regulars, running the group down in public to newbies; and
painting herself as the innocent victim of a secret gang.

Reminds me of Mike Crowe in drag.

Janet.

anne wrote in message ...


I hang around because you are infact a very knowledgeable bunch.
However,
that doesn't make you poilte, approachable or friendly which is a
shame.


I have had great response from members of this group to questions I have
asked here, also I have met some of the posters in person, and found
them very friendly. I also post to a number of other groups, and if you
feel that questions get side-tracked here, you should see what happens
on other groups. I find that the only answer to some people can be to
put them in a kill file, and I can honestly say that none of the posters
from this group are there, but my kill file contains a lot of people.

If every one posts in the same way it makes it easier to find the new
information, and if they post at the bottom, after judicious snipping,
then you see the lead up to their comment before the comment, instead of
reading their comment and then wondering what on earth they are talking
about, or having to scroll down through lines of text to see what they
are answering. Using the heading at the top of the thread isn't always
that helpful, as all posters, what ever the newsgroup, do wander off one
topic onto another, which is just what has happened in this thread. From
the title it would be difficult to realise that we are now onto
newsgroup politics.

Mike
www.british-naturism.org.uk