In article ,
"Rod" writes:
|
| I am deeply sceptical.
| (a) About the alleged virulence of A. m as a plant pathogen.
| (b) The efficacy and desirability of sloshing a tar oil based product around in quantities sufficient to do any
| harm to the Armillaria.
| I can't prove any of this but I have had the privilege of closely observing 10 Ha of largely woodland garden and
| several nearby woods over nearly 30 years. All of those areas are full of Armillaria - on every piece of fallen
| wood or dead tree. The only trees dying are large Beeches that have reached the end of their natural lifespan
| (around 2-300 years) - those woods have been there for several hundreds of years and will be for several more
| centuries unless somebody destroys them deliberately. Same in the garden - the odd thing dying here and there but
| plenty of woody plants. I assume you'd find a similar picture in any wood anywhere in these islands. My proposition
| is that dead plants found infected by Armillaria were already dead or in serious trouble for some other reason
| before the Armillaria came along. It may also be that the mycelia of the fungus can't run so easily in an old wood
| as they can in a well cultivated garden. So don't automatically blame the Armillaria - probably the only correct
| verdict in many cases would be an open verdict.

Yes, I agree. If all the hype spouted about it were true, there would
be no ancient woodlands and precious few old gardens left in the
south of England. It certainly does kill, as do many other fungi,
but its lethality is grossly exaggerated.

| As for the 'treatment' This stuff is highly toxic and will kill many beneficial and indeed essential organisms in
| the soil and the effect on the Armillaria is likely to be marginal. I never see young healthy plants killed by
| Armillaria so forget any 'treatment' - keep planting and enjoying your garden. Again, just because you see
| bootlaces on a dead plant does *not* necessarily mean the Armillaria killed it.

Quite. Armillaria mellea often attacks dying trees.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from Bigjon contains these words:

The worst "deader" is a Lilac within the bed that has the bootstraps, most
of the others (shrubs and trees) are apparently fine. From the replies, I
think I will have to remove all the soil to about a foot and replace it
with fresh ??

It will just get invaded again. Remove any bootlaces you happen to find,
but apart from that, and harvesting the fruit bodies, there's little you
can do.

Look on the bright side: the young caps are good fried, they thicken
stews and casseroles nicely, and the caps pickle well.

--
Rusty Hinge
horrid·squeak&zetnet·co·uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

The message
from "PK" contains these words:

ISTR lilac is a particularly susceptible species.

And the closely-related privet.

--
Rusty Hinge
horrid·squeak&zetnet·co·uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
I can't prove any of this but I have had the privilege of closely
observing 10 Ha of largely woodland garden and several nearby woods
over nearly 30 years. All of those areas are full of Armillaria -
on every piece of fallen wood or dead tree.


Partly true, and I use the same argument myself to argue that HF is not the
disaster some feel it is. But, natural woodland has had the whole of
evolution to come to terms with HF which has a role in the natural cycle of
death and renewal of the forest.

A garden is a different environment, if "nature" desides that our bit of the
forest is the next in line for clearing and regeneration waht are we to do?
Shrug and let it get on with it?

Also, woodlad trees and shrubs are by definition species which have a niche
in the ecology of the woodland - any *particulaly* suseptible to HF are
simply not present in infected natuaral woodland as they have been selected
out long ago. Some garden plants are particularly suscptible and it is those
that need protection. the best protection is to keep the plant healtyh by
keeping the soil healthy, but is is not treu to say that HF ONLY attacks the
already dead and dying

pk

In article ,
"PK" writes:
| Nick Maclaren wrote:
| In article ,
| I can't prove any of this but I have had the privilege of closely
| observing 10 Ha of largely woodland garden and several nearby woods
| over nearly 30 years. All of those areas are full of Armillaria -
| on every piece of fallen wood or dead tree.
|
| Partly true, and I use the same argument myself to argue that HF is not the
| disaster some feel it is. But, natural woodland has had the whole of
| evolution to come to terms with HF which has a role in the natural cycle of
| death and renewal of the forest.
|
| A garden is a different environment, if "nature" desides that our bit of the
| forest is the next in line for clearing and regeneration waht are we to do?
| Shrug and let it get on with it?

You snipped my point about older gardens. MOST of those have had
honey fungus throughout at some stage. Yes, learn to live with it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Reminds me of the time when my father (who was a barber) sold a razor blade
on a Sunday to a customer who said he wanted it to cut his corns.
Legally he wasn't allowed to sell it if the customer wanted a shave.
and that was before the EEC.


"PK" wrote in message
...
Bigjon wrote:
We appear to have the symptoms and bootlaces of honey fungus, as well
as one or two suspicious deaths to go with this. I found out that
Armillatox has been removed from sale in the UK, (but seems to be
available as a soap product now ??).

1. Can it still be used to kill Honey Fungus ?
2. Is there anything else I can use ?
3. Where can I get this by Mail order ?

I try to be as organic as possible, and I have a large wildlife pond
nearby !


Armillatox cannot be labelled as a HF control as it has not been through
the
expensive legal hoops for it to be approved as a pesticide etc (see below)

It cannot therefore be labelled a pest/ant/honey fungus killer but only
what
it is "a soap based outdoor cleaner" - i'm going to use it to clean my
patio
around ants nests and to wash down and clean the "collar" of shrubs in HF
infected gardens, i might even use it to clean the holes I want to replant
roses in or holes for shrubs in HF areas.

Of course i wolud not dream of using it in any off label way or of
advising
anyone else to do so.

pk

http://www.armillatox.co.uk/


Under European legislation the active ingredients of all pesticides have
to
be reviewed, the cost of raising the data for the review is estimated to
be
£3 million - to a small company the cost is prohibitive

As current legislation stands it will be illegal for Armillatox to be sold
as a pesticide after 25th July 2003 in European Member States - outside of
Europe it will continue as normal.

We have made representations to the EU and have been supported by our MEP
to
look at a reduced package for small companies with niche products such
Armillatox but as the deadline approaches, we have has to reconsider our
position

Therefore as from 25th July 2003, we will re-label Armillatox as
'Armillatox
Soap Based Outdoor Cleaner' so taking it out of the pesticides
regulations -
the formulation will remain the same.

Jaques d'Altrades wrote:
The message
from "PK" contains these words:


ISTR lilac is a particularly susceptible species.


And the closely-related privet.

There's a nice reason for not planting a Privet hedge if you need one.
"Can't do it Guv - Honey fungus y'know"

Rod

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"PK" writes:
| Nick Maclaren wrote:
| In article ,
| I can't prove any of this but I have had the privilege of closely
| observing 10 Ha of largely woodland garden and several nearby woods
| over nearly 30 years. All of those areas are full of Armillaria -
| on every piece of fallen wood or dead tree.
|
| Partly true, and I use the same argument myself to argue that HF is not
the
| disaster some feel it is. But, natural woodland has had the whole of
| evolution to come to terms with HF which has a role in the natural
cycle of
| death and renewal of the forest.
|
| A garden is a different environment, if "nature" desides that our bit
of the
| forest is the next in line for clearing and regeneration waht are we to
do?
| Shrug and let it get on with it?

You snipped my point about older gardens. MOST of those have had
honey fungus throughout at some stage. Yes, learn to live with it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Thank you Nick, for that authoratative post. We have a half acre garden
with about 20 trees up to 70ft. tall.
We have honey fungus on an isolated forsythia at our gate-it died over
winter only wisps of flower and leaves. I cut it down but fruiting bodies
have appeared on the stump which has not been grubbed up.
Fruiting bodies have also sprouted on a willow stump-the tree was cut down
last year-it was not thriving on a dry bank and dropped most of its leaves
in July. The willow is near a few attractive trees-cypress, larch, beech,
field maple, planted vines, yew etc. It would be useful to have some idea of
a vulnerability of different species.
We moved into the house three years ago and I think the garden was
overplanted 25 years ago with too many potentially large trees -perhaps
nature is making adjustments.
David T

wrote in message ...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"PK" writes:
| Nick Maclaren wrote:
| In article ,
| I can't prove any of this but I have had the privilege of closely
| observing 10 Ha of largely woodland garden and several nearby
woods
| over nearly 30 years. All of those areas are full of Armillaria -
| on every piece of fallen wood or dead tree.
|
| Partly true, and I use the same argument myself to argue that HF is
not
the
| disaster some feel it is. But, natural woodland has had the whole of
| evolution to come to terms with HF which has a role in the natural
cycle of
| death and renewal of the forest.
|
| A garden is a different environment, if "nature" desides that our bit
of the
| forest is the next in line for clearing and regeneration waht are we
to
do?
| Shrug and let it get on with it?

You snipped my point about older gardens. MOST of those have had
honey fungus throughout at some stage. Yes, learn to live with it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Thank you Nick, for that authoratative post. We have a half acre garden
with about 20 trees up to 70ft. tall.
We have honey fungus on an isolated forsythia at our gate-it died over
winter only wisps of flower and leaves. I cut it down but fruiting bodies
have appeared on the stump which has not been grubbed up.
Fruiting bodies have also sprouted on a willow stump-the tree was cut down
last year-it was not thriving on a dry bank and dropped most of its leaves
in July. The willow is near a few attractive trees-cypress, larch, beech,
field maple, planted vines, yew etc. It would be useful to have some idea
of
a vulnerability of different species.
We moved into the house three years ago and I think the garden was
overplanted 25 years ago with too many potentially large trees -perhaps
nature is making adjustments.
David T

Afterthought, more info. The National Trust in their magazine said that
garden specimens are put under greater stress by changing climatic
conditions. Problems with honey fungus are increasing because of warmer
damper winters.
David T.