In article ,
martin wrote:
On 19 Oct 2003 17:00:14 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
martin wrote:

Yes the climate has been changing but the immense tree clearance and
land drainage took place mainly during the last couple of hundred years
(ish) to my knowledge.

The downs and the northern moors were not cleared of trees in modern
times. The moors were cleared during prehistoric times, the downs in
the middle ages

No, they were cleared much earlier than that. It was the change from
arable to pastoral use that happened in the middle ages.

The Kentish downs were cleared of trees by iron makers looking for
fuel.

See Rackham - that is a myth. That is the probable origin of the
large amount of coppiced woodland in Kent, because that provides
wood that can be cut on a 20-year rotation.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 19 Oct 2003 17:30:55 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
martin wrote:
On 19 Oct 2003 17:00:14 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
martin wrote:

Yes the climate has been changing but the immense tree clearance and
land drainage took place mainly during the last couple of hundred years
(ish) to my knowledge.

The downs and the northern moors were not cleared of trees in modern
times. The moors were cleared during prehistoric times, the downs in
the middle ages

No, they were cleared much earlier than that. It was the change from
arable to pastoral use that happened in the middle ages.

The Kentish downs were cleared of trees by iron makers looking for
fuel.

See Rackham - that is a myth.

It was put forward as fact in a fairly recent BBC program. There are
web sites saying the same thing.

That is the probable origin of the
large amount of coppiced woodland in Kent, because that provides
wood that can be cut on a 20-year rotation.

They haven't made iron in Kent in the last two hundred years.

--
Martin

In article ,
(Nick Maclaren) wrote:

The Kentish downs were cleared of trees by iron makers looking for
fuel.

See Rackham - that is a myth.

Either way, it's probably too small an area to be irrelevant to global
climate changes.

Steve Harris - Cheltenham - Real address steve AT netservs DOT com

In article ,
martin wrote:

The downs and the northern moors were not cleared of trees in modern
times. The moors were cleared during prehistoric times, the downs in
the middle ages

No, they were cleared much earlier than that. It was the change from
arable to pastoral use that happened in the middle ages.

The Kentish downs were cleared of trees by iron makers looking for
fuel.

See Rackham - that is a myth.

It was put forward as fact in a fairly recent BBC program. There are
web sites saying the same thing.

Doubtless. A myth can get around the world before the facts have
got their boots on.

That is the probable origin of the
large amount of coppiced woodland in Kent, because that provides
wood that can be cut on a 20-year rotation.

They haven't made iron in Kent in the last two hundred years.

You will find that the coppiced woodlands are a lot older than 200
years, I can assure you.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from Janet Galpin and Oliver Patterson
contains these words:

The message
from "Bob Hobden" contains these words:

Still, what a spring/summer/autumn we have had.

Won't know until next spring how many plants/trees have died through
lack of
water.

I have been wondering about the effects on next season of this year's
drought.
In your comment about trees dying, do you mean that even if they look
healthy now, they may be at risk, or do you mean that if they look sick
now they might or might not recover?

Even hopelessly dead trees hold reserves of water which can produce
quite misleading signs of life. Years ago when our central heating
system ran on wood and sweat, we used to order 25 ton loads of hardwood
which consisted of 8ft long trunks up to a foot thick. Rootless,
branchless, leafless trunks delivered in autumn, quite often managed to
put out new twigs and leaves the following spring.

Janet

On 19 Oct 2003 21:11:26 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
martin wrote:

The downs and the northern moors were not cleared of trees in modern
times. The moors were cleared during prehistoric times, the downs in
the middle ages

No, they were cleared much earlier than that. It was the change from
arable to pastoral use that happened in the middle ages.

The Kentish downs were cleared of trees by iron makers looking for
fuel.

See Rackham - that is a myth.

It was put forward as fact in a fairly recent BBC program. There are
web sites saying the same thing.

Doubtless. A myth can get around the world before the facts have
got their boots on.

The problem is to know, who is spreading myths and who has got facts.
This year's expert's facts are often debunked by the next generation
of experts. I assume that the BBC consult experts or is that a naive
idea? Lots of their history and industrial archeology programs appear
to be presented by experts.

Remembering the coming of a new ice age forecast in 1963 by the father
of British climatology
--
Martin

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 17:04:16 +0100, Janet Galpin and Oliver
Patterson wrote:

I have been wondering about the effects on next season of this year's
drought.
In your comment about trees dying, do you mean that even if they look
healthy now, they may be at risk, or do you mean that if they look sick
now they might or might not recover?

We've had unusually dry summers here the last few years, and an
unusually large number of dead trees (mainly or exclusively
conifers afaict) can be seen as a result. The most common
casualty is the western red cedar, Thuja occidentalis (?), and
the thuja cultivars 'Pyramidalis' and 'Smaragd' ("Emerald
Green"), which are widely used as hedging.

However, I had a mature Arbutus unedo give up the ghost last
spring, and attribute *that* to the previous summer's drought.

Deciduous trees seem not to be as badly affected. I suppose this
is because they can shed their leaves in serious dry spells and
bring the desiccation process to an nearly complete halt.


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
change "invalid" to "net" to respond

Subject: Cold Snap for the UK
From: martin
Date: 19/10/2003 15:56 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 19 Oct 2003 14:21:14 GMT, emon (Rhiannon S)
wrote:

Subject: Cold Snap for the UK
From: (Jim W)
Date: 18/10/2003 18:44 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id: 1g2zwk4.f8a1buljokrkN%00senetnospamtodayta@macunl imited.net

snip snip
Do you remember when a new ice age was forecast in the early nineteen
sixties

Hey! I'm only 26, I barely remember the early eightiesP
--
Rhiannon
http://www.livejournal.com/users/rhiannon_s/
Q: how many witches does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: depends on what you want it changed into!

On 20 Oct 2003 10:27:40 GMT, emon (Rhiannon S)
wrote:

Subject: Cold Snap for the UK
From: martin
Date: 19/10/2003 15:56 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 19 Oct 2003 14:21:14 GMT, emon (Rhiannon S)
wrote:

Subject: Cold Snap for the UK
From: (Jim W)
Date: 18/10/2003 18:44 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id: 1g2zwk4.f8a1buljokrkN%00senetnospamtodayta@macunl imited.net

snip snip
Do you remember when a new ice age was forecast in the early nineteen
sixties

Hey! I'm only 26, I barely remember the early eightiesP

You didn't miss much.


--
Martin

"Rhiannon S" wrote in message
...
: Subject: Cold Snap for the UK
: From: martin
: snip snip
: Do you remember when a new ice age was forecast in the early nineteen
: sixties
:
: Hey! I'm only 26, I barely remember the early eightiesP
: --
: Rhiannon
: http://www.livejournal.com/users/rhiannon_s/
: Q: how many witches does it take to change a lightbulb?
: A: depends on what you want it changed into!

I can barely remember being 26 :O((((

K

SNIP

Send it to Redditch - we haven't had any since June, possibly longer
(apart
from about three very light showers for about five minutes!!). I keep
hoping......

Me too Here in Dorset It's still summer, a brilliant summer(like) day, and
we took water to the allotment yesterday. Again. The leeks have mostly
keeled over and the celery has not come to much. Also the maris piper spuds
have been disappointing, allegedly due to drought. I can't remember when it
last rained here apart from a five minute shower about three weeks ago.

Still, as others have said, when it breaks we'll have way more than we need
and it probably won't stop till march. I know we shouldn't complain,
but......

I'm Gonna!

Steve

Rhiannon S wrote:

Subject: Cold Snap for the UK
From: martin
Date: 19/10/2003 15:56 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id:

On 19 Oct 2003 14:21:14 GMT, emon (Rhiannon S)
wrote:

Subject: Cold Snap for the UK
From: (Jim W)
Date: 18/10/2003 18:44 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id: 1g2zwk4.f8a1buljokrkN%00senetnospamtodayta@macunl imited.net

snip snip
Do you remember when a new ice age was forecast in the early nineteen
sixties

Hey! I'm only 26, I barely remember the early eightiesP

That makes 2 of us!
//
Jim

Bob Hobden wrote:


Still, what a spring/summer/autumn we have had.

Won't know until next spring how many plants/trees have died through lack of
water.

As a followup I spotted this in Hortweek

//
Jim

Horticulture Week
http://www.hortweek.co.uk/news_story.cfm?ID=478
Tuesday, October 21, 2003

October 16 2003
London suffers at hand of drought
Parks suffer tree loss and damage after summer of 'drought'

At least 300 mature trees across London's parks have died during the
summer's hot weather and many more have been damaged, according to a
report published by the Royal Parks this month.
Trees have been affected by record-breaking temperatures and large areas
of parkland have been left scorched and barren. Hyde Park was
particularly affected because of the added stress of large crowds
attending concerts and demonstrations. Restoration work to the parks is
expected to run to hundreds of thousands of pounds and Hyde Park alone
is expected to need more than £250,000.
The Royal Parks has reacted by creating a working party to look at
planting species that will be better suited to hotter conditions.
Royal Parks representative Theo Moore said: "Many trees find it hard to
survive droughts, so it is sensible to consider more plants that enjoy
hotter climates."
Royal Parks deputy chief executive Mike Fitt added: "We're not suddenly
going to replant the parks - it is something we have to think about for
the future, which is why we have set up a working party."

Subject: Cold Snap for the UK
From: (Jim W)
Date: 21/10/2003 14:13 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id: 1g36he5.qmetgn13vcv9jN%00senetnospamtodayta@macun limited.net

Bob Hobden wrote:


Still, what a spring/summer/autumn we have had.

It was snowing on the M8 today, so make that what a winter too) Global
warming? Yes please.
--
Rhiannon
http://www.livejournal.com/users/rhiannon_s/
Q: how many witches does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: depends on what you want it changed into!

On 21 Oct 2003 14:56:12 GMT, emon (Rhiannon S)
wrote:

Subject: Cold Snap for the UK
From: (Jim W)
Date: 21/10/2003 14:13 GMT Daylight Time
Message-id: 1g36he5.qmetgn13vcv9jN%00senetnospamtodayta@macun limited.net

Bob Hobden wrote:


Still, what a spring/summer/autumn we have had.

It was snowing on the M8 today, so make that what a winter too) Global
warming? Yes please.

Somebody once said "A mug of hot Vimto is the perfect way to relax and
de-stress. A safer way of comfort drinking."

--
Martin