In article , Michael Savage
writes
Point taken Franz and Martin, but he's actually very young, working for
builders mostly, and did a first class job on wiring up our kitchen. He is
at least honest enough to tell me he's not done a greenhouse before, and has
been talking to his more experienced colleagues... people have to start
somewhere, don't they?

I thought the IEE Wiring Regs covered outdoor installations?
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Ric" wrote in message
...
In the UK electrical fittings are always massively over-specced. You
will
be
fine using the lowest spec and cheapest ones.

By way of example, here in France I have so-called "exterior" sockets
all
around my garden in various places for exterior lights and garden tools.
They are just the same as interior sockets except in a mildly more shock
absorbent plastic. They are considered perfectly ok here.

What happens if you touch a wet cable after some rain has fallen on the
plug
$ socket?

Nothing! It has rained heavily for the past two days here and I was out
working in my garden this morning, moving the lilghts around etc and it
seems fine. I even have one by my pool, which sometimes gets splashed while
I am swimming. They are waterproof, the plugs are waterproof, the wires are
waterproof etc. The French safety standards are perfectly good. I think in
UK the standards of electrical safety are unnecessarily high and expensive.
Don't leap to the conclusion that French standards are sloppy - I lived in
Germany and Switzerland before moving here, and in both countries it was the
same. UK is the odd man out.

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Michael Savage

[snip]

I thought the IEE Wiring Regs covered outdoor installations?

They do.

Franz

I am about to get an electricity supply to my greenhouse. The actual
connection work will be done by a qualified electrician but he has never
worked on a greenhouse before and can't really advise on the best standard
for fittings.

I would suggest that get an electrician who actually IS properly qualified
since the man you propose using is clearly not up to the job.

"Ric" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Ric" wrote in message
...
In the UK electrical fittings are always massively over-specced. You
will
be
fine using the lowest spec and cheapest ones.

By way of example, here in France I have so-called "exterior" sockets
all
around my garden in various places for exterior lights and garden
tools.
They are just the same as interior sockets except in a mildly more
shock
absorbent plastic. They are considered perfectly ok here.

What happens if you touch a wet cable after some rain has fallen on the
plug
$ socket?

Nothing! It has rained heavily for the past two days here and I was out
working in my garden this morning, moving the lilghts around etc and it
seems fine. I even have one by my pool, which sometimes gets splashed
while
I am swimming. They are waterproof, the plugs are waterproof, the wires
are
waterproof etc. The French safety standards are perfectly good. I think in
UK the standards of electrical safety are unnecessarily high and
expensive.
Don't leap to the conclusion that French standards are sloppy - I lived in
Germany and Switzerland before moving here, and in both countries it was
the
same. UK is the odd man out.

Higher up, you said about your outdoor electrical instalations:
"They are just the same as interior sockets except in a mildly more shock
absorbent plastic. They are considered perfectly ok here."

A little lower down you said about these same accessories:
" They are waterproof, the plugs are waterproof, the wires are
waterproof etc"

My conclusion is that your indoor wiring standards are grossly
overspecified.

Franz

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:42:35 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

I am about to get an electricity supply to my greenhouse. The actual
connection work will be done by a qualified electrician but he has never
worked on a greenhouse before and can't really advise on the best standard
for fittings.

I would suggest that get an electrician who actually IS properly qualified
since the man you propose using is clearly not up to the job.

It's very difficult for a non specialist to tell who is properly
qualified.

--
Martin

You can get an electricians ticket on C&G 236 pt 1 but I would suggest that
Pt 2 should be a minimum.
Ask to see his certificates or his CSIS card, if he has them what harm is
there in asking?
"martin" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:42:35 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

I am about to get an electricity supply to my greenhouse. The actual
connection work will be done by a qualified electrician but he has
never
worked on a greenhouse before and can't really advise on the best
standard
for fittings.

I would suggest that get an electrician who actually IS properly
qualified
since the man you propose using is clearly not up to the job.

It's very difficult for a non specialist to tell who is properly
qualified.

--
Martin

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Michael Savage
writes

Also - any tips on locating the sockets? How many (know I'll be using fan
heater, soil cables, light)? Ways of fixing in an aluminium greenhouse?

The one for the light needs to be near the door ;-)

Tonight I've discovered what's lacking in our gh - a light. In the past I
must have been better organised but I had to take a lantern tonight to pick
herbs ...

So your comment is timely, Kay! Spouse installed wiring and a plug last year
for a heater, it won't be a big job, but an essential one.

Mary

"Ric" wrote sparkily
They are waterproof, the plugs are waterproof, the wires are
waterproof etc. The French safety standards are perfectly good. I think in
UK the standards of electrical safety are unnecessarily high and expensive.
Don't leap to the conclusion that French standards are sloppy - I lived in
Germany and Switzerland before moving here, and in both countries it was the
same. UK is the odd man out.

It's perfectly true. The "schuko" 220V socket used all over europe is
reversable, and makes no distinction between live and neutral. It is
invariably unswitched, and people are perfectly happy with it. It is
largely unshuttered, depending on the depth of the holes and thier
relative inaccesability to provide protection against poking things
in, along with parental supervision and self-responsibility.

I've even seen Norwegian installations where the power is fed to a
strip of sockets with a plug! It's considered perfectly safe because
it's coloured red and everyone knows that red plugs have live pins
when you pull them out.

We have a range of design features - earth first connection, shuttered
sockets, switched sockets, designs unsuitable for outdoor fixing,
non-waterproofable cable entries, which are different from the way
that other people do it. But that doesn't make any one system right
or wrong - they are two different systems developed over years to
reach the same objective: an acceptable level of risk at a reasonable
price. I can remember in france single core wire cleated on the
outside of the plaster with wooden batterns every 200mm, down to light
switches. It was not dangerous, because it was normal.

A classic example is the use of multi-plug adaaptors in sockets.
There is a hysterical reaction to those in much of the UK because of
the risk of overloading. But people cheerfully put a 6-way block on a
short flex into a socket and think it is perfectly acceptable. It's
wierd. Both the adaptor and the plug on the flying lead are fused,
and the whole system is designed to work continuously up to the fuse
rating. But we get the vapours about one and are sanguine about the
other, when they are topologically equivalent.

And don't get me started on the stupid little plastic things that
parents are advised to put into thier sockets!

Thos wrote:
You can get an electricians ticket on C&G 236 pt 1 but I would suggest that
Pt 2 should be a minimum.
Ask to see his certificates or his CSIS card, if he has them what harm is
there in asking?
"martin" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 14:42:35 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:


I am about to get an electricity supply to my greenhouse. The actual
connection work will be done by a qualified electrician but he has

never

worked on a greenhouse before and can't really advise on the best

standard

for fittings.

I would suggest that get an electrician who actually IS properly

qualified

since the man you propose using is clearly not up to the job.

It's very difficult for a non specialist to tell who is properly
qualified.

--
Martin



When we've had electricians working here I've seen they have quite a bit
of paperwork to complete regarding the installation - A kind of 'self
certification' I think? Is your guy qualified and equipped to do the
testing needed for that? I didn't hire them so I don't know the details.
As for what they put in the greenhouse - can't remember the IP rating
but I can tell you they're like normal 13A sockets but enclosed in a
larger box with a flap type lid that falls down over the inserted plug
and latches down to seal the plug in. I probably wouldn't want to train
a hose on them for any length of time but they are OK for accidental
watering - we certainly don't get any tripping of the RCD by wetting them.

Rod

"Michael Savage" wrote in
message .. .
Hi all

I've tried Google on this one with no luck - sorry if it's been raised
before, I must have used the wrong search terms...

I am about to get an electricity supply to my greenhouse. The actual
connection work will be done by a qualified electrician but he has never
worked on a greenhouse before and can't really advise on the best standard
for fittings.

My Screwfix catalogue has weatherproof fittings to IP55 and IP66, and the
IP55 looked OK to me...but when I went to the local electrical supply shop
they had a lot of other IP ratings, leaving me confused. I have now
checked
the HSE document explaining the IP system so I see what the numbers
mean...

But what is the most appropriate for a greenhouse? I suppose few people go
for IP66 which requires the use of special plugs to ensure waterproofness
(?).

Also - any tips on locating the sockets? How many (know I'll be using fan
heater, soil cables, light)? Ways of fixing in an aluminium greenhouse?

Ta in anticipation

Michael S

ps about to become a dad any day now so sorry if I disappear from any
discussion!



Thanks all for comments. In case any one is interested, I am going for 2 x
IP66 (or was it 56?) MK Masterseal switched double sockets, which can be
closed with plug inserted, and a nice spongy seal clamps onto the flex. I'm
getting them for £31 each cf list price of £45ish... will let you know how I
get on.

Michael S