not if they have added David's name to their address list.


--
Martin

You too are confused by the DPA :-((

Go and get the video and read the book.

"........ You too are confused by the DPA :-((

Go and get the video and read the book. .........."

Why? I got the T Shirt


OK

In article , hugh
] writes
In message , Mike
writes


There is another aspect of the Data Protection Act which is quite
frightening. If you as the Secretary of a Gardening Club decide to gather
the names and addresses of all of the other Gardening Clubs in the country
and then sell that list to someone who will use it to market something, YOU
are in line for prosecution and the person you SELL IT TO is liable.

And so I should hope!!!
If I give my name to the secretary of a club of which I am a member,
there is no way that I am sanctioning its use to send me a whole lot of
junk mail. I am giving it to the secretary of the club for club purposes
and nothing else. I am very glad to see that he/she is liable to
prosecution.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

The message
from "David Hill" contains these
words:

"........ You too are confused by the DPA :-((

Go and get the video and read the book. .........."

Why? I got the T Shirt

I thought your name was David, not Martin......

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

And so I should hope!!!
If I give my name to the secretary of a club of which I am a member,
there is no way that I am sanctioning its use to send me a whole lot of
junk mail. I am giving it to the secretary of the club for club purposes
and nothing else. I am very glad to see that he/she is liable to
prosecution.

--
Kay Easton

Exactly :-)) I don't know if you read my account of someone who was
collecting data in the form of the Secretaries of Associations and trying to
sell them, but I soon put a stop to that!!
You are correct. The data you give to a secretary is for that secretary's
use ONLY and when secretaries of Associations give me their membership
lists, it is on my promise that I will use that for finding old shipmates
ONLY. Even then I have built in a safeguard for their members, in that I
will notify the member that I have found someone looking for him and 'here
is the address' "You contact him"!!! I 1994 when I started the RN
Shipmates System I made a promise to EVERYONE concerned that I would not
pass an address to a third person without that person's permission. And I
have stuck to it!! :-))

Mike

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:44:49 -0000, "David Hill"
wrote:

"........ You too are confused by the DPA :-((

Go and get the video and read the book. .........."

Why? I got the T Shirt

and the scars too David ? :-)
--
Martin

"........ You too are confused by the DPA :-((

Go and get the video and read the book. .........."

Why? I got the T Shirt



--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

In message , Mike
writes



Once you use the word "business" you are changing the rules.

and changing the reason why you/they have the data stored in the first
place. The company I organise the reunions through is a business and is
registered.

A garden
club would normally be a not for profit organisation whereas a business
would not - well not intentionally!!!

:-}}

There is another aspect of the Data Protection Act which is quite
frightening. If you as the Secretary of a Gardening Club decide to
gather
the names and addresses of all of the other Gardening Clubs in the
country
and then sell that list to someone who will use it to market something,
YOU
are in line for prosecution and the person you SELL IT TO is liable. I
had a
case where someone tried to sell the names and addresses of all the
H.M.Ship's Association's Secretaries to Hotels to target them for
reunions.
The Manager of one of the hotels I use a lot contacted me and now
whenever a
likely list is printed in any of my magazines or publications, I print
the
following:-


I wouldn't regard that as "frightening" - this was one of the activities
that the act was designed to prohibit.

Yes I agree with you there that is what the DPA is for and maybe I should
not have used the word frightening, but rather 'be watchful for' because a
heatlhy Amatuer Club of or for any reason could have quite a data base of
people, as mine is.


You could still have a problem under the act. If you are not registered
then yo should not pass on personal details to third parties without the
positive consent of the data subject. Do you ask for their consent to
publication in any application form you use?

Anybody who joins an Association is joining to get in touch with his/her old
Service Pals. As soon as they contact me I send out an application form for
them to fill in and list their name, nickname, service number, address,
telephone number and their Service History in brief. They are told that this
detail will be put onto the membership list and sent to all other members.
I specifically ask if they wish their telephone number listing. About 5 - 10
% so no so that is not put on. I had one person who send for details of the
Association concerned and I sent a form to him. HE wrote back to me saying
that he would like to join the Association and to receive the membership
lists but did not wish his details to be included on the lists. DPA or not,
that was unfair to the other members and when he still insisted that it was
not included, I refused the application.


Are your magazines or publications for members only? - in which case you
may be OK. If they are for general issue available to the public then
you could be in trouble.

Members use only.


Carry on Gardening Clubs, Little Theatre Groups, Under Water Formation
Dancing Teams, etc etc. The act is not targeted at you :-))

Not strictly true - you are exempt from *registration* provided you
stick to certain conditions, BUT the Act still applies.

You have a chicken and egg situation here. The Act applies to everyone who
lists details, but registration is not always required as I hope I have
explained. The Act applies to me once I start using my listings to 'seek out
and collate a certain criteria of people' as I explained before, but as I
don't, I don't need to register.


IANAL but I took professional legal advice on behalf of a club of which
I was a member. (2 different lawyers gave the same answer - is that a
record?)
--
Yes if it was questions on the DPA, because it is so full of holes, that
interpretation is the key word.

Mike


Your procedures as described above mirror the advice I was given.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

"........ You too are confused by the DPA :-((

Go and get the video and read the book. .........."

Why? I got the T Shirt


OK

Your procedures as described above mirror the advice I was given.
--

I hope they didn't charge you, I would have given the information free :-))

Seriously, you have to sort out EXACTLY what you are doing with the names
and addresses and how you are going to use them.

One man joined my System a few years back, found that there was an
Association for his class of warship, joined that association and was
reunited with 12 of his shipmates from WWII. He 'had' to join that
association to get the names and addresses. To a certain degree, I am only a
'hub' and a guide to show where to go for more information. I had a case of
an American gentleman with an English wife. She was born in November 1942 as
her father was killed in the June of 1942 when a bomb hit his ship in Malta.
I was able to direct her to an Association which covered her father's class
of ship. She came to the UK, met 3 of her father's old shipmates, one of
which was in the same mess and knew him well. She also went to Malta and saw
the dock where the ship was when hit.

I am not clever or the best thing since sliced bread. I have all of this
information because it has been passed on to me IN CONFIDENCE, and that I
will not give names and address away willy nilly. The Ministry of Defence
refer people to me as does the Imperial War Museum and many others. But I am
still not registered with the DPA and don't need to.

Funny old Act :-))

Mike

The message
from "David Hill" contains these
words:

"........ You too are confused by the DPA :-((

Go and get the video and read the book. .........."

Why? I got the T Shirt

I thought your name was David, not Martin......

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

On Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:44:49 -0000, "David Hill"
wrote:

"........ You too are confused by the DPA :-((

Go and get the video and read the book. .........."

Why? I got the T Shirt

and the scars too David ? :-)
--
Martin

In message , Mike
writes



Once you use the word "business" you are changing the rules.

and changing the reason why you/they have the data stored in the first
place. The company I organise the reunions through is a business and is
registered.

A garden
club would normally be a not for profit organisation whereas a business
would not - well not intentionally!!!

:-}}

There is another aspect of the Data Protection Act which is quite
frightening. If you as the Secretary of a Gardening Club decide to
gather
the names and addresses of all of the other Gardening Clubs in the
country
and then sell that list to someone who will use it to market something,
YOU
are in line for prosecution and the person you SELL IT TO is liable. I
had a
case where someone tried to sell the names and addresses of all the
H.M.Ship's Association's Secretaries to Hotels to target them for
reunions.
The Manager of one of the hotels I use a lot contacted me and now
whenever a
likely list is printed in any of my magazines or publications, I print
the
following:-


I wouldn't regard that as "frightening" - this was one of the activities
that the act was designed to prohibit.

Yes I agree with you there that is what the DPA is for and maybe I should
not have used the word frightening, but rather 'be watchful for' because a
heatlhy Amatuer Club of or for any reason could have quite a data base of
people, as mine is.


You could still have a problem under the act. If you are not registered
then yo should not pass on personal details to third parties without the
positive consent of the data subject. Do you ask for their consent to
publication in any application form you use?

Anybody who joins an Association is joining to get in touch with his/her old
Service Pals. As soon as they contact me I send out an application form for
them to fill in and list their name, nickname, service number, address,
telephone number and their Service History in brief. They are told that this
detail will be put onto the membership list and sent to all other members.
I specifically ask if they wish their telephone number listing. About 5 - 10
% so no so that is not put on. I had one person who send for details of the
Association concerned and I sent a form to him. HE wrote back to me saying
that he would like to join the Association and to receive the membership
lists but did not wish his details to be included on the lists. DPA or not,
that was unfair to the other members and when he still insisted that it was
not included, I refused the application.


Are your magazines or publications for members only? - in which case you
may be OK. If they are for general issue available to the public then
you could be in trouble.

Members use only.


Carry on Gardening Clubs, Little Theatre Groups, Under Water Formation
Dancing Teams, etc etc. The act is not targeted at you :-))

Not strictly true - you are exempt from *registration* provided you
stick to certain conditions, BUT the Act still applies.

You have a chicken and egg situation here. The Act applies to everyone who
lists details, but registration is not always required as I hope I have
explained. The Act applies to me once I start using my listings to 'seek out
and collate a certain criteria of people' as I explained before, but as I
don't, I don't need to register.


IANAL but I took professional legal advice on behalf of a club of which
I was a member. (2 different lawyers gave the same answer - is that a
record?)
--
Yes if it was questions on the DPA, because it is so full of holes, that
interpretation is the key word.

Mike


Your procedures as described above mirror the advice I was given.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting

Your procedures as described above mirror the advice I was given.
--

I hope they didn't charge you, I would have given the information free :-))

Seriously, you have to sort out EXACTLY what you are doing with the names
and addresses and how you are going to use them.

One man joined my System a few years back, found that there was an
Association for his class of warship, joined that association and was
reunited with 12 of his shipmates from WWII. He 'had' to join that
association to get the names and addresses. To a certain degree, I am only a
'hub' and a guide to show where to go for more information. I had a case of
an American gentleman with an English wife. She was born in November 1942 as
her father was killed in the June of 1942 when a bomb hit his ship in Malta.
I was able to direct her to an Association which covered her father's class
of ship. She came to the UK, met 3 of her father's old shipmates, one of
which was in the same mess and knew him well. She also went to Malta and saw
the dock where the ship was when hit.

I am not clever or the best thing since sliced bread. I have all of this
information because it has been passed on to me IN CONFIDENCE, and that I
will not give names and address away willy nilly. The Ministry of Defence
refer people to me as does the Imperial War Museum and many others. But I am
still not registered with the DPA and don't need to.

Funny old Act :-))

Mike

The message
from "Mike" contains these words:

I had a case of
an American gentleman with an English wife. She was born in November 1942 as
her father was killed in the June of 1942 when a bomb hit his ship in Malta.
I was able to direct her to an Association which covered her father's class
of ship. She came to the UK, met 3 of her father's old shipmates, one of
which was in the same mess and knew him well. She also went to Malta and saw
the dock where the ship was when hit.

At least I overlapped my father by three months. He was Blenheim aircrew
and as such, his life expectancy wasn't long. He lived up to
expectations.

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/