"Franz

Not so! The reason was simple forgetfulness associated with advancing
age,
combined with an inhumane gas supply company.

Inhumane? Where does that come from? If people don't pay for supplies you
stop supplying them, it's common sense, good business practice, and quite
right.

Forgetfull, advancing age, if only they had paid by Direct Debit then they
could have forgotten about it.
However, would they have turned the heating up when it got cold, it's the
reluctance to do that simple act that kills so many in this country.

--
Regards
Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
and find intelligent life amongst the stars
353 data units completed.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 00:10:55 -0000, Bob Hobden wrote:

Forgetfull, advancing age, if only they had paid by Direct Debit
then they could have forgotten about it.

Your making the assumption that they had a bank account that could
have Direct Debits setup. Since April (I think) this year their
pensions would have to have been paid into an account but I'm not sure
that the *very* basic Post Office account set up to cater for the many
on benefits without bank accounts allows outgoing DDs.

However, would they have turned the heating up when it got cold,

They didn't die of cold, at least the coroner said they didn't, wander
back up the thread to the links to the news articles. They actually
died sometime in the Autumn well before cold becomes a problem even
for the elderly.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"..They actually died sometime in the Autumn well before cold becomes a
problem even for the elderly. ............."


He died of Hypothermia and she died from a heart attack.


--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Franz

Not so! The reason was simple forgetfulness associated with advancing
age,
combined with an inhumane gas supply company.

Inhumane?

That benighted gas company never tried to visit those customers to find out
if anything was wrong.
They did not even have the decency to let Social Services or anybody know
that they had just committed two elderly people to death by hypothermia.
And don's sling that nonsense about data protection act at me.

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Franz

Not so! The reason was simple forgetfulness associated with advancing
age,
combined with an inhumane gas supply company.

Inhumane?

That benighted gas company never tried to visit those customers to find
out
if anything was wrong.
They did not even have the decency to let Social Services or anybody know
that they had just committed two elderly people to death by hypothermia.
And don's sling that nonsense about data protection act at me.

Franz

Why would it know how old they were? I doubt my gas company knows how old I
am, it doesnt even appear to know it also supplies me electricity.

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:180707

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:07:49 -0000, David Hill wrote:

He died of Hypothermia and she died from a heart attack.

I sit corrected, thank you.

"Mr Bates had died from hypothermia, emphysema and coronary heart
disease and his wife from coronary heart disease." from the BBC News
reports as available on the web.

Still it does not change the fact that, IMHO, BG should have told SS's
that they are about to (or have) just disconnected an elderly couple.
Even if the faceless, inhuman, bureaucracy of BG doesn't care, I bet
there is a *very* sick feeling engineer out there somewhere.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:41:18 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 09:07:49 -0000, David Hill wrote:

He died of Hypothermia and she died from a heart attack.

I sit corrected, thank you.

"Mr Bates had died from hypothermia, emphysema and coronary heart
disease and his wife from coronary heart disease." from the BBC News
reports as available on the web.

Still it does not change the fact that, IMHO, BG should have told SS's
that they are about to (or have) just disconnected an elderly couple.
Even if the faceless, inhuman, bureaucracy of BG doesn't care, I bet
there is a *very* sick feeling engineer out there somewhere.

I suspect that it's all done by computer and other than the victims no
human beings are involved.
--
Martin

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 10:23:26 -0000, Tumbleweed wrote:

Why would it know how old they were?

You can't cut of someones gas without a physical visit unlike say
telephone service.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..
"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Franz

Not so! The reason was simple forgetfulness associated with
advancing
age,
combined with an inhumane gas supply company.

Inhumane?

That benighted gas company never tried to visit those customers to find
out
if anything was wrong.
They did not even have the decency to let Social Services or anybody
know
that they had just committed two elderly people to death by hypothermia.
And don's sling that nonsense about data protection act at me.

Franz

Why would it know how old they were? I doubt my gas company knows how old
I
am, it doesnt even appear to know it also supplies me electricity.

The gas company should have the decency and common sense to visit *any*
household involved in the possibility of a disconnection.

It might not actually be a bad idea if the directors were to put,say, 90% of
thier annual personal income into a fund to cope with customers in difficult
circumstances. The fat cat money might then actually be used usefully.

Franz

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:19:26 +0100, martin wrote:

I suspect that it's all done by computer and other than the victims
no human beings are involved.

99% sure that some one has to physically visit to disconnect a gas or
electricity supply, no valve that can be remotely operated. Of course
if there is an external gas meter cupboard then they might not need
physical access into the building. One reason I don't like external
utility cupboards, they aren't lockable so any Tom, Dick, or Harry can
get to "your" supply.

All the letters, demands for payment etc and scheduling of the
engineers job sheet probably doesn't have any human intervention.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 15:06:33 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:19:26 +0100, martin wrote:

I suspect that it's all done by computer and other than the victims
no human beings are involved.

99% sure that some one has to physically visit to disconnect a gas or
electricity supply, no valve that can be remotely operated. Of course
if there is an external gas meter cupboard then they might not need
physical access into the building. One reason I don't like external
utility cupboards, they aren't lockable so any Tom, Dick, or Harry can
get to "your" supply.

All the letters, demands for payment etc and scheduling of the
engineers job sheet probably doesn't have any human intervention.

That's the bit I meant. A manager from the gas company said that 10
attempts had been made to contact the couple, I assumed that this was
10 computer generated letters threatening to cut off the gas.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...on/3342059.stm
"Police found the pair on 18 October in their lounge.

Mr Bates had died from hypothermia, emphysema and coronary heart
disease and his wife from coronary heart disease.

British Gas had twice visited their home, in June and August, about
the outstanding £140.62 balance.

On the second occasion the supply was cut-off, the inquest heard.

Cash found

Harry Metcalfe, general manager of communications at British Gas, said
10 attempts were made to contact the couple before the supply was
switched off, as is procedure.

He said since the introduction of the Data Protection Act, British Gas
was prohibited from passing information to social services as they
were not allowed to disclose information on debt without the
customer's consent.

Later in the inquest, it emerged that when the house was searched
officers found £277 in cash on a small table in the lounge and
£1,116.70 in a purse in a shoe."

I don't understand why the gas company couldn't have contacted the
social services, to tell them that
a) the gas company had cut the gas off
b) the couple needed somebody to keep an eye on them.

Both could have been done without mentioning the debt.

The bloke turning the gas off is just a contractor with no
responsibility. The gas was turned off in August according to the BBC
report. It was still abnormally warm in August. I doubt if the guy
turning the gas off even thought that doing so would kill somebody.
The couple still had the option to pay the bill and have the gas
turned back on again.

--
Martin

In article , Dave
Liquorice writes
On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 12:19:26 +0100, martin wrote:

I suspect that it's all done by computer and other than the victims
no human beings are involved.

99% sure that some one has to physically visit to disconnect a gas or
electricity supply, no valve that can be remotely operated. Of course
if there is an external gas meter cupboard then they might not need
physical access into the building. One reason I don't like external
utility cupboards, they aren't lockable so any Tom, Dick, or Harry can
get to "your" supply.

Why aren't they lockable? Our gas meter hatch has a lock, as did the one
at my parents house when I was a kid.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

"Franz

Not so! The reason was simple forgetfulness associated with advancing
age,
combined with an inhumane gas supply company.

Inhumane?

That benighted gas company never tried to visit those customers to find
out
if anything was wrong.
They did not even have the decency to let Social Services or anybody know
that they had just committed two elderly people to death by hypothermia.
And don's sling that nonsense about data protection act at me.


In view of Martin's detailed contribution to this thread today, I have to
withdraw all I said regarding the gas company's lack of attempts to contact
the couple.

Franz

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 16:48:49 +0000, Kay Easton wrote:

Why aren't they lockable? Our gas meter hatch has a lock, as did the
one at my parents house when I was a kid.

Define "lock".

All the utility cupboards I have ever looked at have nothing more than
a door latch. OK you need a "special" tool to operate the latch but
you can buy them for a quid or two in most DIY sheds...

A "lock" in my book requires a key that cannot be bought as a generic
"match all" tool.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The message
from Kay Easton contains these words:

99% sure that some one has to physically visit to disconnect a gas or
electricity supply, no valve that can be remotely operated. Of course
if there is an external gas meter cupboard then they might not need
physical access into the building. One reason I don't like external
utility cupboards, they aren't lockable so any Tom, Dick, or Harry can
get to "your" supply.

Why aren't they lockable? Our gas meter hatch has a lock, as did the one
at my parents house when I was a kid.

They are lockable - ish. But the key is in the possession of the
relevant services providers, I think.

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)